Kitchen Knives - Santoku knives

[chrisjpainter]

I've not used one of these before and, given I'm about to replace a few reasonable but not exhilarating kitchen knives - my chef's knife included - I was looking at different options. 

Those of you who use Santoku knives, are they as utilitarian as suggested or more a case of the worst of all worlds all round into one - i.e. not quite this, not quite that etc!

Any advice would be useful. I'm looking at Global knives, if that makes a difference!

Many thanks

Chris

[bigroomboy]

I've got global knives. Couldn't want anything more. Easy to sharpen and hold and edge well.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I too use Global Knives, thankfully they were bought years ago, not the new rubbish versions!

Not used Santoku Knives.

[chrisjpainter]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I too use Global Knives, thankfully they were bought years ago, not the new rubbish versions!

Not used Santoku Knives.

I've not heard that about the new ones. What's happening with them?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

56 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

I've not heard that about the new ones. What's happening with them?

Several people I know who have bought them in the last couple of years have been disappointed by the quality and the ability to hold an edge.

Some while ago there were rumours of fakes circulating, my set came from John Lewis in the 1990s.

[JohnfromUK]

Santoku is about the shape.  Deeper between the edge and the back, and less tapered.  Edge is usually straighter so fine chopping/slicing by 'rocking' the knife is less easy.  I have one - a European Santoku shape by J.A. Henckels/Zwilling.  Keeps a nice edge, but I prefer the more 'ordinary' shape.  See comparison.

[chrisjpainter]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

Santoku is about the shape.  Deeper between the edge and the back, and less tapered.  Edge is usually straighter so fine chopping/slicing by 'rocking' the knife is less easy.  I have one - a European Santoku shape by J.A. Henckels/Zwilling.  Keeps a nice edge, but I prefer the more 'ordinary' shape.  See comparison.

Yeah I've been doing a bit of research about the blade and I think the translation's something like 'three uses' so meat, fish and veg.  But the lack of a point seems hampering if you're looking to cut anything really bulky, a downside that you don't get with a chef's knife. And the downsides of the chef's blade (curved edge, for one) seem to be surmountable with the correct technique, so I don't really see the value in the santoku

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, chrisjpainter said:

Yeah I've been doing a bit of research about the blade and I think the translation's something like 'three uses' so meat, fish and veg.  But the lack of a point seems hampering if you're looking to cut anything really bulky, a downside that you don't get with a chef's knife. And the downsides of the chef's blade (curved edge, for one) seem to be surmountable with the correct technique, so I don't really see the value in the santoku

Yes, I agree with that.  My two pictured above will almost certainly be the same steel and 'grind' characteristics (both are J.A. Henckels/Zwilling "Professional S" series), the only real difference being the shape - and I just prefer the usual European chef's shape.  Arguably, the santoku is better for slicing if you use your knuckles as a guide as the blade is the same depth all along.  I think it is s pretty minor difference.  The traditional pointed chefs is better for cutting up veggies like cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage etc.

[moondoggy]

I have quite a few very good kitchen knives, three of which are Santoku knives.

The three Santoku knives are probably the knives I use most.

 

[figgy]

My cousin is a chef and uses and swears by Wustoff knives. I recall him saying he only uses three kinives most of the time. 
 

Shape of handle weight and balance are important if your using them a lot. Id want to feel and handle any expensive knives before I bought them. 

[ehb102]

Santuku knives are pretty varied. If you can rock chop then get a curved one. I never have mastered that technique so like a completely flat and very thin blade for fine slicing. That plus some decent Sabatier knives are my go tos and have their own special knife block. I prefer a Sabatier for dicing raw meat. The quality of the steel is all important. I wouldn't buy good kitchen knives from the high street now. I was given a Pro Cook knife recently and it was very disappointing. 

[243deer]

I recently saw a set of Global? knives in a briefcase for sale on Gumtree - I think best avoided

I use the Sabatier knives I bought in 1990 when a local shop had them on sale at half price - they have turned out to be an absolute bargain, sharpen easily and are a joy to use.

[JohnfromUK]

22 minutes ago, 243deer said:

I use the Sabatier knives I bought in 1990 when a local shop had them on sale at half price - they have turned out to be an absolute bargain, sharpen easily and are a joy to use.

I have some Sabatier knives, bought probably 1990s and earlier.  I have been very pleased with them, but I was looking more recently to get some more, and was very disappointed with the ones I saw.  Some investigation on line suggests that firstly there are several 'Sabatiers', Thiers Issard Sabatier (Elephant trade mark, made in Thiers, France), Maxim Sabatier, V Sabatier (I believe made in China and sold via Richardsons of Sheffield), K Sabaiter (made in Thiers, France), Stellar Sabatier, Rousselon Sabatier (Lion trade mark and made in Thiers, France), Lion Sabatier (same as Rousselon? and made in Thiers, France), Diamond Sabatier, Judge Sabatier, Richardson Sabatier, Deglon Sabatier and I suspect more!

Mine are Lion trade mark and have been very good, however - people have jumped on the bandwagon of the Sabatier name.

[davewh100]

2 hours ago, 243deer said:

I recently saw a set of Global? knives in a briefcase for sale on Gumtree - I think best avoided

I use the Sabatier knives I bought in 1990 when a local shop had them on sale at half price - they have turned out to be an absolute bargain, sharpen easily and are a joy to use.

yeah they sound dodgy in case, Costco have a set at the moment reasonably priced

14 hours ago, figgy said:

My cousin is a chef and uses and swears by Wustoff knives. I recall him saying he only uses three kinives most of the time. 
 

Shape of handle weight and balance are important if your using them a lot. Id want to feel and handle any expensive knives before I bought them. 

i also use wustoff knives figgy never ad a problem with them got them off my son for birthday present 

[Mungler]

I have a full spectrum of knives and sharpeners and observe:

1. If you make a big deal about your knives, you’ll never use them fully or properly. I know so many people that won’t dish wash their knives, will only sharpen them on a Japanese whetstone on a full moon using oils from a rare strain of linseed. So, get a knife that you are prepared to dish wash and sharpen. Global fit this bill for sure and that is our main out on the counter in a block ‘go to’ knife to grab.

2. Keep an eye on what butchers use. They’ll Be nylon handled dishwasher friendly and something they are prepared to sharpen constantly and to destruction. Victornox fit this bill. Also, you nick, bend or damage one and it’s no big deal.

3. If you want something special but not outrageous money and which people use in the industry, give anything from F **** a go - the knife is called F D.I.C.K but the swear filter is not having it - I keep a random eye out for on line specials.

edit : the red handle range off Amazon - look at the reviews.

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Mungler

[chrisjpainter]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

I have a full spectrum of knives and sharpeners and observe:

1. If you make a big deal about your knives, you’ll never use them fully or properly. I know so many people that won’t dish wash their knives, will only sharpen them on a Japanese whetstone on a full moon using oils from a rare strain of linseed. So, get a knife that you are prepared to dish wash and sharpen. Global fit this bill for sure and that is our main out on the counter in a block ‘go to’ knife to grab.

2. Keep an eye on what butchers use. They’ll Be nylon handled dishwasher friendly and something they are prepared to sharpen constantly and to destruction. Victornox fit this bill. Also, you nick, bend or damage one and it’s no big deal.

3. If you want something special but not outrageous money and which people use in the industry, give anything from F **** a go - the knife is called F D.I.C.K but the swear filter is not having it - I keep a random eye out for on line specials.

edit : the red handle range off Amazon - look at the reviews.

 

 

Thanks for that. I will, however, say I categorically refuse to put any knife through the dishwasher for good reason. We don't own one. 

We do actually have a couple of Victorinox knives and they're not too bad at all. Certainly for the money it's hard to beat them

[39TDS]

I bought a "posh" kitchen knife in a shop and they told me I couldn't put it in the dishwasher.

I told them I most definitely would be. They weren't happy and told me my warranty was void.

Don't know what the fuss was as it is still fine many years later

[chrisjpainter]

10 minutes ago, 39TDS said:

I bought a "posh" kitchen knife in a shop and they told me I couldn't put it in the dishwasher.

I told them I most definitely would be. They weren't happy and told me my warranty was void.

Don't know what the fuss was as it is still fine many years later

It really depends what the knife was made of. A carbon steel blade with a wooden handle is probably a bad idea. The heat, steamy atmosphere and the chemicals in the detergent would be a bad combination to expose a carbon steel blade to. Like I said it's a moot point here as we don't own one! 

[GingerCat]

I've used all sorts of kitchens knives over the years and find procook as good as any. Same steel as the remarkably expensive brands, easy to sharpen and hold an edge. Nice profiles. A lot cheaper. Not a fan of global. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stonepark]

Victorinox are easy to clean and easy to sharpen or steel, as well as reasonably priced.

[ditchman]

i use cheap ....usually bought from a sale room prestige knives....i have a pull thro' sharpener stuck to the fridge....draw the knife thro couple of times and it is wicked ragged sharp.....knives last couple of years ...then i chuck em and get some more 2nd hand ones....

[Stonepark]

On 22/01/2023 at 12:39, Mungler said:

I have a full spectrum of knives and sharpeners and observe:

1. If you make a big deal about your knives, you’ll never use them fully or properly. I know so many people that won’t dish wash their knives, will only sharpen them on a Japanese whetstone on a full moon using oils from a rare strain of linseed. So, get a knife that you are prepared to dish wash and sharpen. Global fit this bill for sure and that is our main out on the counter in a block ‘go to’ knife to grab.

2. Keep an eye on what butchers use. They’ll Be nylon handled dishwasher friendly and something they are prepared to sharpen constantly and to destruction. Victornox fit this bill. Also, you nick, bend or damage one and it’s no big deal.

3. If you want something special but not outrageous money and which people use in the industry, give anything from F **** a go - the knife is called F D.I.C.K but the swear filter is not having it - I keep a random eye out for on line specials.

edit : the red handle range off Amazon - look at the reviews.

 

X50CrMoV15

 - German steel. Very stain resistant. Other than that not much to speak of. The cryptic X50CrMoV15 stands for 0.5% carbon, the other 15% is composed of 14% or 14.5% of Cr, some Mo and V. X in the name is a an indicator for high alloy steel, 0.5% C content means, by definition X50CrMoV15 isn't a high carbon steel, despite of some marketing claims. In fact it has less C content compared to 440C steel. However, it's plenty tough and resists corrosion well and it is a high alloy steel. If you don't want to bother maintaining your knives this is a good choice. Except for the low edge holding ability of course. In the end, you end up sharpening it a lot more often, so low maintenance statement is really arguable. Used by Wusthof, Victorinox and others in their high end knives. Ref - X50CrMoV15 Steel Composition. If you are interested, you can also read up on DIN And EN Steel Standards Naming Conventions.

[Mungler]

9 hours ago, Stonepark said:

X50CrMoV15

 - German steel. Very stain resistant. Other than that not much to speak of. The cryptic X50CrMoV15 stands for 0.5% carbon, the other 15% is composed of 14% or 14.5% of Cr, some Mo and V. X in the name is a an indicator for high alloy steel, 0.5% C content means, by definition X50CrMoV15 isn't a high carbon steel, despite of some marketing claims. In fact it has less C content compared to 440C steel. However, it's plenty tough and resists corrosion well and it is a high alloy steel. If you don't want to bother maintaining your knives this is a good choice. Except for the low edge holding ability of course. In the end, you end up sharpening it a lot more often, so low maintenance statement is really arguable. Used by Wusthof, Victorinox and others in their high end knives. Ref - X50CrMoV15 Steel Composition. If you are interested, you can also read up on DIN And EN Steel Standards Naming Conventions.

They go in the dishwasher, and when they are blunt I run them through my D ick RS-250 Duo; for a quick edge I use a D ick rapid steel ‘clicker’.

For me, it’s time and speed. Hand washing and hand sharpening are just not for me. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, Mungler said:

They go in the dishwasher, and when they are blunt I run them through my D ick RS-250 Duo; for a quick edge I use a D ick rapid steel ‘clicker’.

For me, it’s time and speed. Hand washing and hand sharpening are just not for me. 

You really do need to start employing some STAFF at home.    

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

You really do need to start employing some STAFF at home.    

I didn’t get married to end up doing my own washing up 😆