Outraged

[London Best]

Beater’s and other shoot helpers should be there on the shoot during the season because they want to be there, to do a job to the best of their ability ( or learn how it should be done), to make the shoot days run smoothly for the guns. 
Beaters should not be there just because they expect to be asked to shoot at the season’s end. 
The worst beaters anywhere, in my long experience of beating, stopping, picking-up, loading, and as a gun, are the ones who are only there for beater’s day.

[Rim Fire]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

Beater’s and other shoot helpers should be there on the shoot during the season because they want to be there, to do a job to the best of their ability ( or learn how it should be done), to make the shoot days run smoothly for the guns. 
Beaters should not be there just because they expect to be asked to shoot at the season’s end. 
The worst beaters anywhere, in my long experience of beating, stopping, picking-up, loading, and as a gun, are the ones who are only there for beater’s day.

Nobody is saying they was only there for beaters day but when you are told there is going to be a beaters day and people arrange things around that  day then it is canceled with no reason its not right 

[Old farrier]

3 hours ago, London Best said:

Beater’s and other shoot helpers should be there on the shoot during the season because they want to be there, to do a job to the best of their ability ( or learn how it should be done), to make the shoot days run smoothly for the guns. 
Beaters should not be there just because they expect to be asked to shoot at the season’s end. 
The worst beaters anywhere, in my long experience of beating, stopping, picking-up, loading, and as a gun, are the ones who are only there for beater’s day.

Agree to a point 

but it’s only a minority that are there for the beaters shoot 

this is how I see it 

the beaters day is part of the wage if it’s not pay decent wages at least minimum wage 

To cancel with no reason is shocking and very bad form no gentleman should behave in this manner 

we always have our beaters shoot between Christmas and New Year this enables the kids to be there as there no school this is run as a formal day no tie no shooting

the last two days of the season are clear up days cocks only and for the beaters and helpers if you don’t turn up beating or helping between beaters shoot and the end of season you don’t shoot (harsh) that’s our syndicate rule 

any beaters or helpers are welcome to come to the after shoot dinner on each day they will have a meal and a drink at our expense 

we also don’t shoot on the 1st February unless the 31st is a Sunday 

we have a after season shoot dinner everyone is invited and a dim view is taken of those not attending 

we also have work parties for the helpers beaters and picking up team so any areas that cause problems can be sorted out no pay 

barbecue and clay shoot the following day 

I realise not all syndicates are like this but that’s how we like to do it 

 

[London Best]

2 hours ago, Rim Fire said:

Nobody is saying they was only there for beaters day but when you are told there is going to be a beaters day and people arrange things around that  day then it is canceled with no reason its not right 

Yes, it is a poor show. 
I was making a slightly different point. Lots of shoots have beater/s such as I described.

Edited February 1, 2023 by London Best

[London Best]

3 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Agree to a point 

but it’s only a minority that are there for the beaters shoot 

this is how I see it 

the beaters day is part of the wage if it’s not pay decent wages at least minimum wage 

To cancel with no reason is shocking and very bad form no gentleman should behave in this manner 

we always have our beaters shoot between Christmas and New Year this enables the kids to be there as there no school this is run as a formal day no tie no shooting

the last two days of the season are clear up days cocks only and for the beaters and helpers if you don’t turn up beating or helping between beaters shoot and the end of season you don’t shoot (harsh) that’s our syndicate rule 

any beaters or helpers are welcome to come to the after shoot dinner on each day they will have a meal and a drink at our expense 

we also don’t shoot on the 1st February unless the 31st is a Sunday 

we have a after season shoot dinner everyone is invited and a dim view is taken of those not attending 

we also have work parties for the helpers beaters and picking up team so any areas that cause problems can be sorted out no pay 

barbecue and clay shoot the following day 

I realise not all syndicates are like this but that’s how we like to do it 

 

I used to help run a syndicate very similar to the one you describe during the 1980’s, shooting approx. 60 bird days. No beaters were paid but everyone involved was treated to a meal at the pub afterwards, including drinks. We eventually realised that every bird shot was costing us double the commercial rate. I think it may have been the drinks bill which eventually killed off the syndicate, as nobody went home until the last beater fell off his stool!

[Old farrier]

8 minutes ago, London Best said:

I used to help run a syndicate very similar to the one you describe during the 1980’s, shooting approx. 60 bird days. No beaters were paid but everyone involved was treated to a meal at the pub afterwards, including drinks. We eventually realised that every bird shot was costing us double the commercial rate. I think it may have been the drinks bill which eventually killed off the syndicate, as nobody went home until the last beater fell off his stool!

They only get one drink on ours 😊

[marsh man]

6 hours ago, London Best said:

Beater’s and other shoot helpers should be there on the shoot during the season because they want to be there, to do a job to the best of their ability ( or learn how it should be done), to make the shoot days run smoothly for the guns. 
Beaters should not be there just because they expect to be asked to shoot at the season’s end. 
The worst beaters anywhere, in my long experience of beating, stopping, picking-up, loading, and as a gun, are the ones who are only there for beater’s day.

We have very few if any who are there purely for the beaters day L B , we have got a pool of around 20 beaters , we have a regular team of 14 / 16 depending on how many they want , some of them are retired like myself while other often take a day off from work if we have mid week shoots , we also have the odd one who can come at very short notice if a beater can't make it through illness or some other problem and have only rung up the night before , we also have a rule where the beaters have to do at least half the shoot dates to be asked to come on the beaters day , I would say at least three quarters of the helpers are long term with at least four of us who have been helping out for at least 25 years and I have been involved every year since the late 60s when we got £3.00 a day and a bottle of beer at dinnertime , even in those days we still got a beaters day .

Without knowing all the ins and outs of ops shoot I would imagine they have got more drives than the amount the syndicate shot last Saturday , also we don't know how often the shoot , more than likely say every two weeks , if this was the case then some of the drives haven't been touched for at least two weeks , if the syndicate shot a bag of 60 last Saturday then you would think there would be some birds in the remaining drive , if the keeper was anyone at all then he would have kept those drives well fed to make sure they had a few birds for beaters day , all beaters day's work differently , on some of the shoots the guns turn out and do the beating , others like ours do walk and stand , we might have more land than some but the walking team are allowed to shoot anything going back , they might even place a back gun in the game cover and possibly a walking gun behind the the walking team , so very often the walking team get as many as the team that are standing .

So in all fairness I would have thought it was a very poor excuse saying the beaters day was called off through lack of birds , if this was the case , a day could have still been put on and let the beaters see for themselves and I bet a pound to a penny they could all have had a decent day with food and drink laid on dinner time and the bag shared out to whoever turned up .

Maybe it was another reason , if it was then it would have to be far better than the one given to get the same crew turning out another season .

[bruno22rf]

On 30/01/2023 at 18:48, Ultrastu said:

Tell them you will accept payment for  a lost shoot day at the full going rate .

Agree, if they promised a days shooting then they have broken the contract between you.

[Lloyd90]

7 hours ago, London Best said:

Beater’s and other shoot helpers should be there on the shoot during the season because they want to be there, to do a job to the best of their ability ( or learn how it should be done), to make the shoot days run smoothly for the guns. 
Beaters should not be there just because they expect to be asked to shoot at the season’s end. 
The worst beaters anywhere, in my long experience of beating, stopping, picking-up, loading, and as a gun, are the ones who are only there for beater’s day.

That’s a key word you used there … JOB. 
 

Beaters are expected to do a JOB, for no pay, and no beaters day? 
 

What’s next? No vermin shooting? 
 

Should we get down and thank the landed gentry for allowing us to do a free days Labour for them and letting us walk on their land? 
 

I must say I have found this thread quite amusing. 
 

I was knocked back last year when I said beaters are massively underpaid and not fairly compensated. 
 

People said they shouldn’t be coming for the pay but for the love of being out beating. 
 

That’s whilst some big shoots are run as a commercial operation. 
 

 

I’ve done several days beating on a somewhat commercial shoots this year, it was on a Friday, out of it I got some pay (£30, significantly less than if I went to work) a days driven shooting (a decent day out we shot about 40 as most of the beaters weren’t very good shots but it was good fun), some dog training land, been invited to do some vermin shooting now the seasons over etc. 

 

It’s a bit of give and take. If the shoot owners are just take take take them why would people bother? 
 

The suggestion that people shouldn’t come if they expect to be treated well and given those sorts of things just seems a bit extreme. 

[button]

8 hours ago, London Best said:

Beater’s and other shoot helpers should be there on the shoot during the season because they want to be there, to do a job to the best of their ability ( or learn how it should be done), to make the shoot days run smoothly for the guns. 
Beaters should not be there just because they expect to be asked to shoot at the season’s end. 
The worst beaters anywhere, in my long experience of beating, stopping, picking-up, loading, and as a gun, are the ones who are only there for beater’s day.

To do a "job", in that case they should be paid minimum wage, so somewhere iro of £80 a day would be my guess, especially if they are to make the day run smoothly for guns, I take it you would prefer to them to eat in the barn away from the guns? 

[London Best]

19 minutes ago, button said:

To do a "job", in that case they should be paid minimum wage, so somewhere iro of £80 a day would be my guess, especially if they are to make the day run smoothly for guns, I take it you would prefer to them to eat in the barn away from the guns? 

Everybody seems to think that beating should be regarded as work. 
I did not use the word ‘job’ to mean as in at work. 
Beaters are beaters because they want to be beaters. 
Beating is certainly not work. And nobody should expect it to be paid as such. Half the people beating have taken a valuable holiday from work (or, skived off work) to be out beating. Or are retired or unemployed. 
Obviously they are there to make the day work for the guns. Why else would they be asked to attend?
I will treat the remark about being made to eat away from the guns with the contempt it deserves.

[button]

45 minutes ago, London Best said:

Everybody seems to think that beating should be regarded as work. 
I did not use the word ‘job’ to mean as in at work. 
Beaters are beaters because they want to be beaters. 
Beating is certainly not work. And nobody should expect it to be paid as such. Half the people beating have taken a valuable holiday from work (or, skived off work) to be out beating. Or are retired or unemployed. 
Obviously they are there to make the day work for the guns. Why else would they be asked to attend?
I will treat the remark about being made to eat away from the guns with the contempt it deserves.

I would say it depends on the shoot, if you are beating on one of big commercial shoots that are charging upwards of £2k per gun I would fully expect them to pay a fair days pay 

I would disagree about beating not been work, I know alot of hill farmers round the grouse moors welcome the additional income from beating and loading, especially in these times that everyone is facing, while your comments may be fully justifiable in respect of small private shoots not so sure they are in tune with large commercial enterprises 

In respect of lunch in the barn, reread your post, seems to focus very much on the day for the guns, which is fine but compensate accordingly if that's how you view it

Edited February 1, 2023 by button

[quentyn]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Beating is certainly not work. And nobody should expect it to be paid as such. Half the people beating have taken a valuable holiday from work (or, skived off work) to be out beating. Or are retired or unemployed. 
 

i will have to remember that next season.... remember beaters it isnt work! now get out there and flush some high birds for me !

every time i beat i end up hot, sweaty, scratched and knackered. It certainly *feels* like work

[jall25]

7 hours ago, quentyn said:

i will have to remember that next season.... remember beaters it isnt work! now get out there and flush some high birds for me !

every time i beat i end up hot, sweaty, scratched and knackered. It certainly *feels* like work

Well poor you - may i suggest you take up another hobby !

[jall25]

On 30/01/2023 at 18:03, keeper96 said:

Just need to vent…. The shoot I beat on has cancelled the beaters day! 
 

it just feels like a huge let down, I prioritised this shoot over others during the season, put holidays in at work, juggled childcare all to make sure I made all days apart from 1 and they’ve cancelled our beater day with 2 days notice and no excuse given! 

Being part of a shoot and that community is a two way street - You have only been there a year you say - well i would be asking questions of the people in charge and not posting on a forum. Anything could have happened - if my shoot was plastered all over the internet no way would you be welcome back next year anyway 

[button]

8 hours ago, quentyn said:

i will have to remember that next season.... remember beaters it isnt work! now get out there and flush some high birds for me !

every time i beat i end up hot, sweaty, scratched and knackered. It certainly *feels* like work

My thoughts exactly 👍

[Rim Fire]

1 hour ago, jall25 said:

Being part of a shoot and that community is a two way street - You have only been there a year you say - well i would be asking questions of the people in charge and not posting on a forum. Anything could have happened - if my shoot was plastered all over the internet no way would you be welcome back next year anyway 

Why shouldn't he complain he haven't said the name of the shoot so how will they know who he is unless what he is saying is true and they recognize what he is saying and imo they should hang their head in shame   

11 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

That’s a key word you used there … JOB. 
 

Beaters are expected to do a JOB, for no pay, and no beaters day? 
 

What’s next? No vermin shooting? 
 

Should we get down and thank the landed gentry for allowing us to do a free days Labour for them and letting us walk on their land? 
 

I must say I have found this thread quite amusing. 
 

I was knocked back last year when I said beaters are massively underpaid and not fairly compensated. 
 

People said they shouldn’t be coming for the pay but for the love of being out beating. 
 

That’s whilst some big shoots are run as a commercial operation. 
 

 

I’ve done several days beating on a somewhat commercial shoots this year, it was on a Friday, out of it I got some pay (£30, significantly less than if I went to work) a days driven shooting (a decent day out we shot about 40 as most of the beaters weren’t very good shots but it was good fun), some dog training land, been invited to do some vermin shooting now the seasons over etc. 

 

It’s a bit of give and take. If the shoot owners are just take take take them why would people bother? 
 

The suggestion that people shouldn’t come if they expect to be treated well and given those sorts of things just seems a bit extreme. 

Spot on Lloyd 

[jall25]

6 hours ago, Rim Fire said:

Why shouldn't he complain he haven't said the name of the shoot so how will they know who he is unless what he is saying is true and they recognize what he is saying and imo they should hang their head in shame   

Spot on Lloyd 

As i say - if someone did this about my shoot - That would be the last they would come. 

I wonder what has happened to gentlemannery conduct and conversation - benefit of the doubt and all that 

LLoyd - so many shoots are not for the landed gentry - as you know - and if everyone was paid in full for a job most shoots would fold.

I also find threads like this amusing as well as distasteful because beating is a great way into our sport - next week im sure there will be post about people not able to gain permissions !

Edited February 2, 2023 by jall25
Spelling !

[B725]

What is wrong with having a beaters day as a primary reason to go beating for some people it's the only chance to shoot game, Lloyd90 sums it up nicely, as for beating isn't work someone needs to look up the definition of work ,some of the replies I find are patronising and insulting to the men and women who go beating as without them there would be no driven shooting. 

I've been beating were some of the gun's are pig ignorant right through to a full team of military who's manners and gratitude to the beaters was exemplary. There still is a big divide between gun's and beaters on a lot of shoots

[Rim Fire]

1 hour ago, B725 said:

What is wrong with having a beaters day as a primary reason to go beating for some people it's the only chance to shoot game, Lloyd90 sums it up nicely, as for beating isn't work someone needs to look up the definition of work ,some of the replies I find are patronising and insulting to the men and women who go beating as without them there would be no driven shooting. 

I've been beating were some of the gun's are pig ignorant right through to a full team of military who's manners and gratitude to the beaters was exemplary. There still is a big divide between gun's and beaters on a lot of shoots

Just now, Rim Fire said:

And some of the comments on here is as you described 

[Down South]

No beaters no birds. No birds no shooting. No shooting, hacked off guns. Beaters and keeper are a shoots most valuable assets. If they do a good “job”, they deserve recognition.

[London Best]

3 hours ago, Rim Fire said:

 

What is wrong with having a beater’s day as a primary reason to go beating

I’ll give you one instance, admittedly possibly a one-off, but the worst extreme case I have ever known.

A new chap turned up on a shoot where I was involved, having contacted the keeper and asked for some beating. From the start on day one, all he could talk about was beater’s day, beater’s day, beater’s day. He even kept saying to the keeper, “I’m not bothered if you don’t pay me, just so long as you ask me to your beater’s day.” On and on about it, each and every day he attended through the season. He became more excited about it as the season came to an end. That trouble was brewing was obvious.
Beater’s day arrived, and he was so hyped up, excited, greedy and downright dangerous that he was asked to leave at the end of the first drive, which had been cut short because of him.

He was not seen again on that estate for over fifteen years, when, one day he popped up in a team of guns on a let day. Everyone who remembered him was wary, but, to be totally fair, he was a different person and his behaviour was exemplary.

Edited February 2, 2023 by London Best

[B725]

Unfortunately you had a bad apple as the saying goes and understandably he had to go but as I said there's a lot of beaters who look forward to their day as it's the only chance of shooting game as life didn't afford them the luxury of wealth for what ever reason. As you well know some shoots are relatively easy to beat and other's are extremely hard work due to steep hills very dense brambles, bogs and other stuff. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

On 30/01/2023 at 18:03, keeper96 said:

Just need to vent…. The shoot I beat on has cancelled the beaters day! 
 

it just feels like a huge let down, I prioritised this shoot over others during the season, put holidays in at work, juggled childcare all to make sure I made all days apart from 1 and they’ve cancelled our beater day with 2 days notice and no excuse given! 

You obviously beat on the WRONG shoot!

[London Best]

2 hours ago, B725 said:

. As you well know some shoots are relatively easy to beat and other's are extremely hard work due to steep hills very dense brambles, bogs and other stuff. 

That is very true, of course. 
Yes, beating can be hard work, but it’s not WORK.

 Let’s face it, most beaters do it because they enjoy it, because it’s FUN.