Cartridges prices

[TK421]

I know a lot of the regular shooters stocked up prior to the latest hike and cleared out pretty much all of the old stock at the old price. Of those most have said they will shoot a reduced amount going forward. I think when they also start seeing the extra money in their account after each month it will get harder to justify the extra spend on practice sessions. The other issue is now even the 💩 thumpy cartridges are expensive now.. Let’s see what happens when most burn through their stash. Today was the first  comp I’ve  missed in a long time. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by TK421

[Charliedog]

Plenty of entrants at todays registered comp (180ish), plenty of expensive motors in the car park, it is noticeable that more people are shooting more of a budget cartridge and still shooting very well, probably why the budget end has been bumped up in price. Whilst i do feel cartridge companies are exploiting us on price, a lot of average shooters will find the money to shoot and if needed make cuts elsewhere (pubs etc) as they enjoy it.

[Westley]

10 hours ago, Charliedog said:

Plenty of entrants at todays registered comp (180ish), plenty of expensive motors in the car park, it is noticeable that more people are shooting more of a budget cartridge and still shooting very well, probably why the budget end has been bumped up in price. Whilst i do feel cartridge companies are exploiting us on price, a lot of average shooters will find the money to shoot and if needed make cuts elsewhere (pubs etc) as they enjoy it.

'Budget Cartridges '  I feel, are a thing of the past.

[humperdingle]

Cartridges are possibly a better investment opportunity than property at the moment 🫣

Edited March 6, 2023 by humperdingle

[TK421]

6 minutes ago, humperdingle said:

Cartridges are possibly a better investment opportunity than property at the moment 🫣

A 10-15% ROI. 
 

[pux]

If anyone knows of some reasonably priced Fiocchi Litespeed near Gloucester....been my fav cartridge for a while, can't find them anywhere, when i do they are over priced.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 hours ago, humperdingle said:

Cartridges are possibly a better investment opportunity than property at the moment 🫣

Apart from collecting them, storing them and then re-selling them to release the funds!  

[humperdingle]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Apart from collecting them, storing them and then re-selling them to release the funds!  

It wasn’t an entirely serious suggestion 😂

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, humperdingle said:

It wasn’t an entirely serious suggestion 😂

I see you remembered the emoji this time!   

[humperdingle]

11 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I see you remembered the emoji this time!   

Aye, OK 

[Gordon R]

Paid £230 per 1000 at weekend Fiocchi Blu - 28grm - 7 1/2 - plastic wad.

[sandspider]

On 03/03/2023 at 23:49, Poor Shot said:

My local Sunday shoot has been relatively quiet for the last 5-6 weeks or post Christmas break really. They would normally have circa 20-25 shooters on even the wet and cold Sundays but we they've been down around the 8-12 mark lately. Those attending are either young, without families and/or spending commotments or the relatively well off retired. At £10 for 50 clays which is just about the cheapest around there isnt much else in the way of competition.

 

That's a damn good price! Where's the shoot?!

[Poor Shot]

3 hours ago, sandspider said:

That's a damn good price! Where's the shoot?!

Waun Uchaf shooting ground in Coelbren, Neath. 

A but far from Chepstow unfortunately😄

[sandspider]

Yep! Shame it's 55 miles away, that's the cheapest shoot I've heard of for years, by at least £5 a time! Think my local was £18 last time I went.

[Poor Shot]

6 minutes ago, sandspider said:

Yep! Shame it's 55 miles away, that's the cheapest shoot I've heard of for years, by at least £5 a time! Think my local was £18 last time I went.

Mork shooting club in St Braivels was around £16 for 60 birds last time I shot there, probably around 6 months ago.

No doubt its up around £20 these days. 

[sandspider]

That's a fair bit closer, albeit a fair bit more than £10! Will give it a try if I get a chance.

[Sweet11-87]

On 05/03/2023 at 17:20, Smudger687 said:

The best thing you can do to make your displeasure known is to stop buying cartridges and hit them in their bottom lines. 

in theory the best solution, in practice the clay grounds,clubs and local RFD will feel the hit from that move first. and when they buckle people will have no place to  A shoot or B place to buy shooting equiptment  and so cannot or dont shoot and have no reason to hold FAC or SGC and shooting as a community is weakend further.

[TK421]

On 16/03/2023 at 23:54, Sweet11-87 said:

in theory the best solution, in practice the clay grounds,clubs and local RFD will feel the hit from that move first. and when they buckle people will have no place to  A shoot or B place to buy shooting equiptment  and so cannot or dont shoot and have no reason to hold FAC or SGC and shooting as a community is weakend further.

The reality is most people won’t have an option to not buy, it will be a price prohibitive option made due to their own financial circumstances, and this is my concern, as I mentioned earlier it’s the clubs and grounds that will suffer. I can pretty much guarantee in an attempt to cover lost revenue due to falling numbers clubs will have to put prices up, unfortunately I think we all know where this is going. We can only hope that the main  organisations like CPSA, BASC etc put pressure on the manufacturers to review their pricing.

a point to ponder, Interestingly we don’t see any mention of price increases on any of the social media feeds from the manufacturers? No apology for the increase due to “unforeseen circumstances” or “ economic pressures” or even “the war in Ukraine” just a stealth increase  …. These are the brands we’ve remained loyal to over the years, nice to see that they actually give a 💩 right?  Go figure? 

[Wilts#Dave]

12 hours ago, TK421 said:

The reality is most people won’t have an option to not buy, it will be a price prohibitive option made due to their own financial circumstances, and this is my concern, as I mentioned earlier it’s the clubs and grounds that will suffer. I can pretty much guarantee in an attempt to cover lost revenue due to falling numbers clubs will have to put prices up, unfortunately I think we all know where this is going. We can only hope that the main  organisations like CPSA, BASC etc put pressure on the manufacturers to review their pricing.

a point to ponder, Interestingly we don’t see any mention of price increases on any of the social media feeds from the manufacturers? No apology for the increase due to “unforeseen circumstances” or “ economic pressures” or even “the war in Ukraine” just a stealth increase  …. These are the brands we’ve remained loyal to over the years, nice to see that they actually give a 💩 right?  Go figure? 

They realised some time ago they could hike prices on a regular basis and still sell them, and have continued to do so as they see fit to increase profits year on year with little thought of how unaffordable they’re making it for some…..sadly it’s just business and greed in equal measures but until their profits start to drop I can’t see them dropping prices any time soon. Must admit it’s very frustrating at a time when literally every cost is spiralling out of control!
Does make me think twice about buying a thousand here and there before needed to keep supplies topped up now the prices are so high. 

[Stonepark]

The problem is not just the manufacturers but also just inflation in general.

No manufacturing business can survive on less than 25% profit and nearly every clothing manufacturer for instance operates on 100% profits, branded goods are often 200% profit etc

For sake of argument, decent game cartridges to the shooter cost roughly as follows

Manufacturing Cost £200

Manufacturing Profit £100

Retailers Profit £80

VAT 20% £76

Retail price £456, or £114 per slab.

If retailers add discount per thousand the total is £408 or £104 per slab

If addition, if manufacturers were to reduce to 25% profit (£50) the thousand cost would be £348 or £82.50 per slab.

If profit was reduced to 10% (£20) the thousand cost would be £312 or £79 per slab.

Now these are averaged based on the round profit numbers and don't adjust for potential materials quality differences (possible saving of up to £40 per thousand) but are not far out in general.

In truth, premium game cartridges (i.e. Dark Storm 28g fibre £443) manufacturing profit percentage numbers are probably 100%, whilst premium clay cartridge (Dark Storm 28g fibre £384) is probably 50% and generic clay loads (Velocity 28g fibre £287) is probably 10%.

Given the smaller volume of premium game cartridges sold, large volume of generic clay loads sold and the middlin volume of premium clay loads sold it would all average out at 50% profit.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Stonepark

[TK421]

19 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

The problem is not just the manufacturers but also just inflation in general.

No manufacturing business can survive on less than 25% profit and nearly every clothing manufacturer for instance operates on 100% profits, branded goods are often 200% profit etc

For sake of argument, decent game cartridges to the shooter cost roughly as follows

Manufacturing Cost £200

Manufacturing Profit £100

Retailers Profit £80

VAT 20% £76

Retail price £456, or £114 per slab.

If retailers add discount per thousand the total is £408 or £104 per slab

If addition, if manufacturers were to reduce to 25% profit (£50) the thousand cost would be £348 or £82.50 per slab.

If profit was reduced to 10% (£20) the thousand cost would be £312 or £79 per slab.

Now these are averaged based on the round profit numbers and don't adjust for potential materials quality differences (possible saving of up to £40 per thousand) but are not far out in general.

In truth, premium game cartridges (i.e. Dark Storm 28g fibre £443) manufacturing profit percentage numbers are probably 100%, whilst premium clay cartridge (Dark Storm 28g fibre £384) is probably 50% and generic clay loads (Velocity 28g fibre £287) is probably 10%.

Given the smaller volume of premium game cartridges sold, large volume of generic clay loads sold and the middlin volume of premium clay loads sold it would all average out at 50% profit.

As Mentioned in my previous post, profits up year on year, healthy margins and shareholders funds. Speculating on rough costs of X and Y is speculation. Margins for resellers are a lot less than you think with the lions share going to the manufacturers, hence healthy profits and increases year on year…..

 

 

[Stonepark]

1 hour ago, TK421 said:

As Mentioned in my previous post, profits up year on year, healthy margins and shareholders funds. Speculating on rough costs of X and Y is speculation. Margins for resellers are a lot less than you think with the lions share going to the manufacturers, hence healthy profits and increases year on year…..

 

 

TK,

As noted above this is a representation, but more importantly it shows that even reducing both manufacturing and retailer margins, manufacturing costs are the significant reason for the increase in prices.

The costs of materials (up 25%), energy (up 100%), labour (up 10%) in the last 12 months alone is pushing prices up and manufacturers are maintaining their margins in percentage terms, rather than nominal £ terms.

 

BTW

I just had a look at Hulls 2022 more detailed balance sheet and you forgot to list net profit, which is after all deductions and taxes are paid.

Turnover is indeed £18m, gross profit is indeed £5.56m, however, after deductions and taxes Actual Profit is £1.38m which is then placed into the shareholders fund.

£1.38m is a 7.6% return on a turnover of £18m, even adding back the directors salaries of £780k  (as owners) back in gives £2.16m which is a 12% return.

Those are steep but not outrageous margins by any means.

 

[TK421]

8 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

TK,

As noted above this is a representation, but more importantly it shows that even reducing both manufacturing and retailer margins, manufacturing costs are the significant reason for the increase in prices.

The costs of materials (up 25%), energy (up 100%), labour (up 10%) in the last 12 months alone is pushing prices up and manufacturers are maintaining their margins in percentage terms, rather than nominal £ terms.

 

BTW

I just had a look at Hulls 2022 more detailed balance sheet and you forgot to list net profit, which is after all deductions and taxes are paid.

Turnover is indeed £18m, gross profit is indeed £5.56m, however, after deductions and taxes Actual Profit is £1.38m which is then placed into the shareholders fund.

£1.38m is a 7.6% return on a turnover of £18m, even adding back the directors salaries of £780k  (as owners) back in gives £2.16m which is a 12% return.

Those are steep but not outrageous margins by any means.

 

We can go around in circles all day with this throwing random statistics of percentage increases into the equation? Reality is people will pay what they want to pay, once it reaches a level, they’ll stop. It want matter what your books are saying at this point.  Never underestimate your customers. 

BTW I purposely didn’t include the whole accounts and stated people should check the data for themselves. Online Company accounts are a broad representation of the business as I’m sure you’re aware, ‘deductions’ can also be varied and wide allowing scope for flair, artistic license and creative accounting that’s for sure, anyway not here to argue those points as I’m simply not in receipt of said information, but still nice healthy salaries for the owners, a good solid shareholders fund, it’s hardly an on the bones of its **** business that’s for sure. 
 

time will tell, let’s hope they drop by the same amount over the next year or so? 😂 

[Sweet11-87]

long and short of it is its a racket. clearly all the main players play the game and have agreements so they can all prosper.

hence why they all have a cartridge range roughly the same price and composition, and do price hikes at the same time and dropped that little joint statment when the lead and plastic ban dropped.  clay carts are 28g of 7.5,  pigeon carts are 29g-32g of 6s  none of them have cornered the market by making an afordable high volume middle ground  28g of 6 or 7 cart that gives you a very effective  decoying cart thats still legal for clays. its not really rocket science. theyve all conviniently made them. theyve just been marketed for grouse and are priced at grouse money.

 

[TK421]

7 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said:

long and short of it is its a racket. clearly all the main players play the game and have agreements so they can all prosper.

Absolutely 💯. But for some odd reason sheeple still continue to defend what’s obvious to me as price gouging. 
it’s like society has lost its ability to think for itself somehow?
It reminds of this thing that happened back in 2020, true story ……