Gun reforms

[islandgun]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-64720331

[tonyshooter]

Seen it, shooters will pay the price for the police not applying existing legislation correctly. 

[Smudger687]

I really do hope BASC gets off its backside for this one. I suppose it might affect driven game shooting so there's always a chance...

 

[Genghis]

The bill that Pollard was proposing was specifically that pump-action shotguns can no longer be stored at home and that misogyny be classified as a hate crime.

On his Facebook page, someone commented on why pump action shotguns were being targeted and not semi-autos and he replied that that is what the ‘common opinion’ was.

[rbrowning2]

indeed the local MP and home office will just look for more control, they are already suggesting all shotguns should be like section 1 firearms each one justified, they will look for any excuse to divert the blame away from the police and on to us for wanting to own guns.  Plus use it to justify a significant increase in fees.

Wouldn’t it be nice to have a local MP with balls enough to stand up and say the police fxxxxd up, rather than look for reasons to excuse them.

[Weihrauch17]

26 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

 

indeed the local MP and home office will just look for more control, they are already suggesting all shotguns should be like section 1 firearms each one justified, they will look for any excuse to divert the blame away from the police and on to us for wanting to own guns.  Plus use it to justify a significant increase in fees.

Wouldn’t it be nice to have a local MP with balls enough to stand up and say the police fxxxxd up, rather than look for reasons to excuse them.

This a disgusting abuse of law abiding gun owners.

[Genghis]

This is what Pollard is asking for

[derbyduck]

why pump actions ? it was proved many years ago by a chap called Gough Thomas that it was quicker to fire 100 rounds with a self opening side by side 12 bore than by using a pump action 5 shot or a semi auto !

[wymberley]

20 hours ago, derbyduck said:

why pump actions ? it was proved many years ago by a chap called Gough Thomas that it was quicker to fire 100 rounds with a self opening side by side 12 bore than by using a pump action 5 shot or a semi auto !

Who are the only people who would have read GT?

[wymberley]

On 21/02/2023 at 23:51, Genghis said:

This is what Pollard is asking for

It's going to be a legislator's nightmare.

The bottom line is is that there will always be a requirement for guns in the public domain in the UK. What is becoming increasingly undeniable - if it hasn't already, now, got to such a point - is that the folk who have guns in these circumstances will have to be authorised, be qualified and deemed/assessed, as far as is possible, to be suitable. Additionally, for those who wish to possess/use guns outside of a 'requirement' - eg for recreation - a form of recognised qualification - like it or not - is on the cards as would be compulsary medical input along with an identified shooting location(s).

[mossy835]

On 21/02/2023 at 22:42, Smudger687 said:

I really do hope BASC gets off its backside for this one. I suppose it might affect driven game shooting so there's always a chance...

 

 

 

only when they have filled up there range rovers.

[Pushandpull]

Not sure what the current CEO drives (Skoda Kodiaq ?) but the last guy had an Audi A4 estate. Why write nonsense about Range Rovers ?

[Weihrauch17]

3 hours ago, wymberley said:

It's going to be a legislator's nightmare.

The bottom line is is that there will always be a requirement for guns in the public domain in the UK. What is becoming increasingly undeniable - if it hasn't already, now, got to such a point - is that the folk who have guns in these circumstances will have to be authorised, be qualified and deemed/assessed, as far as is possible, to be suitable. Additionally, for those who wish to possess/use guns outside of a 'requirement' - eg for recreation - a form of recognised qualification - like it or not - is on the cards as would be compulsary medical input along with an identified shooting location(s).

Jesus don't fuel the fire ***!

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Pushandpull said:

Not sure what the current CEO drives (Skoda Kodiaq ?) but the last guy had an Audi A4 estate. Why write nonsense about Range Rovers ?

Dont burst the fantasy bubble of envy 🤣

[Conor O'Gorman]

On 21/02/2023 at 22:42, Smudger687 said:

I really do hope BASC gets off its backside for this one. I suppose it might affect driven game shooting so there's always a chance...

 

 

4 hours ago, mossy835 said:

 

 

only when they have filled up there range rovers.

@Smudger687

@mossy835

What do you hope to achieve by publishing the above misleading/false statements about BASC? 

BASC protects and promotes all aspects of shooting. 

None of the minority of BASC staff who need a company car drives a flash model. Staff who carry loads of kit tend to have pick-ups, others typical middle of the range saloon cars including Fords, Toyotas and Skodas.

May I suggest you sign up for BASC Live, our weekly e-newsletter, to keep up to date on BASC's work protecting and promoting shooting given your interest in posting (misinformed) comments about BASC. Click the link below to sign up to BASC Live:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-live/

As regards the OP - please read BASC's statement following the conclusion of the inquests by clicking the link below:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-statement-on-iopc-report-into-keyham-shootings/

[Smudger687]

7 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

 

@Smudger687

@mossy835

What do you hope to achieve by publishing the above misleading/false statements about BASC? 

BASC protects and promotes all aspects of shooting. 

None of the minority of BASC staff who need a company car drives a flash model. Staff who carry loads of kit tend to have pick-ups, others typical middle of the range saloon cars including Fords, Toyotas and Skodas.

May I suggest you sign up for BASC Live, our weekly e-newsletter, to keep up to date on BASC's work protecting and promoting shooting given your interest in posting (misinformed) comments about BASC. Click the link below to sign up to BASC Live:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-live/

As regards the OP - please read BASC's statement following the conclusion of the inquests by clicking the link below:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-statement-on-iopc-report-into-keyham-shootings/

Hello Conor

Thanks for responding. 

I still assert that BASC is primarily (though not exclusively) concerned with driven game shooting.

I believe this because I spoke to a senior BASC representative as to why, seemingly out of nowhere, BASC called for a [voluntary] ban on lead shot. I was told it was because Europe doesn't want to buy lead shot game (and in the context of this conversation, game refers to driven birds). Upon further questioning, I was then told that many smaller shoots would go under if the choice of shot material was simply left to the market. 

You may not agree with this, but this is what I was told.

In light of this, any concerns about lead poisoning to birds, lead exposure through eating lead shot game etc etc (which may well be true) is simply retroactive justification for a decision made on completely different grounds.

BASC saw a threat to driven shooting, and as a result, called for restrictions across the entirety of British shooting in a bizarre attempt to protect the driven sector. How is this anything other than prioritising driven game shooting?

If this BASC representative was wrong, then please feel free to correct me. 

 

[Minky]

25 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

 

@Smudger687

@mossy835

What do you hope to achieve by publishing the above misleading/false statements about BASC? 

BASC protects and promotes all aspects of shooting. 

None of the minority of BASC staff who need a company car drives a flash model. Staff who carry loads of kit tend to have pick-ups, others typical middle of the range saloon cars including Fords, Toyotas and Skodas.

May I suggest you sign up for BASC Live, our weekly e-newsletter, to keep up to date on BASC's work protecting and promoting shooting given your interest in posting (misinformed) comments about BASC. Click the link below to sign up to BASC Live:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-live/

As regards the OP - please read BASC's statement following the conclusion of the inquests by clicking the link below:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-statement-on-iopc-report-into-keyham-shootings/

You should go back and read  The reply that you have posted. The posters don't seem to hope to be achieving anything.  It is a commonly held opinion of basic. Basic state that they protect and promote all aspects of shooting but its all smoke and mirrors.   signing up for BASC Live, the weekly e-newsletter, to keep up to date on BASC's work protecting and promoting shooting might be informative but does didly squat out in the field.   it is just a catalogue of window dressing.  Plod do as they please and make it up as they go along and Kwis must consult you as to what to do next .  runs rings around you.  As it stands shooting is really on the end of a line. Guns have virtually no second hand value.  Dealers won't buy anything in and at a recent firearms auction there were about 5000 guns that had been sold and were all going for export.  The whole mindset of the org is outmoded with reality.  I feel that I have just wasted x minutes even reading this thread or replying.  I've even considered deleting it.  Just can't be bothered.

[enfieldspares]

14 hours ago, Smudger687 said:

In light of this, any concerns about lead poisoning to birds, lead exposure through eating lead shot game etc etc (which may well be true) is simply retroactive justification for a decision made on completely different grounds.

BASC saw a threat to driven shooting, and as a result, called for restrictions across the entirety of British shooting in a bizarre attempt to protect the driven sector. How is this anything other than prioritising driven game shooting?

This is also my perception and why I too, having once been a member, am also very critical of BASC.

I asked on another forum about why the New Zealand model wasn't suggested by BASC. And was told that BASC didn't think it appropriate for the UK.

I asked about why shot of size English #8 or smaller wasn't suggested as being excluded (as the lead shot law for fishing weight which WERE driven by wildfowl ingestion concerns exempted that). There was no reply directly addressing this.

I asked about an exclusion for 9mm Rimfire and .22LR Rimfire shotguns. There was no reply directly addressing this.

I asked about a derogation for .410 cartridges (as per New Zealand). There was no reply directly addressing this.

So, yes, I agree with SMUDGER687 and his interpretation.

Edited February 24, 2023 by enfieldspares

[wymberley]

15 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Jesus don't fuel the fire ***!

OK. Assume the position, head back in sand and it’ll all go away.

[Genghis]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

OK. Assume the position, head back in sand and it’ll all go away.

I think he was saying not to give them ideas, not that he wants to hide away.

[Weihrauch17]

57 minutes ago, Genghis said:

I think he was saying not to give them ideas, not that he wants to hide away.

This thank you!

[Fellside]

Hello Conor,

I have been reading this thread with interest, and without joining in the frenzy of BASC bashing, would like to emphasise support for the New Zealand approach. In particular their evaluation of the 410 and its vital supply of lead ammunition to support youth entry in to shooting. New Zealand is a well respected democracy and their evidence based approach to ammunition has been pragmatic and unsullied by political posturing. A derogation of this kind - and not the proposed extended stay of execution - should be pursued by BASC et al with great vigour and determination!! Surely there is a deal to be done. 

[Fellside]

P.S I know this ^ doesn’t address the original post, but following other contributions I believe it to be an important matter in its own right, and it has been raised as a priority several times on PW. 

[wymberley]

2 hours ago, Fellside said:

Hello Conor,

I have been reading this thread with interest, and without joining in the frenzy of BASC bashing, would like to emphasise support for the New Zealand approach. In particular their evaluation of the 410 and its vital supply of lead ammunition to support youth entry in to shooting. New Zealand is a well respected democracy and their evidence based approach to ammunition has been pragmatic and unsullied by political posturing. A derogation of this kind - and not the proposed extended stay of execution - should be pursued by BASC et al with great vigour and determination!! Surely there is a deal to be done. 

Of course there is but not if one side remains in denial and the other intent in running roughshod over the other.

What is wrong with a medical input? We already have it but it is in a right mess and as it is not going to go away. Surely, ratifying its content, making it fair to all and binding has advantages for everyone.

What kicked this current situation off has largely been shown to have been the level of police firearms units officers' training. This is not going to be too comfortable for all those concerned. Also, any actions routinely taken by officers which are well outside agreed guidelines should not go unremarked. It's not too difficult from reading some internet forum posts to see that our working knowledge is not all it might be. Is it possible that it would stand us in good stead with Joe Public and restore some confidence if we were to reciprocate and to agree to some form of voluntary training biased towards safety and the law?

What we have to remember though it is not some poor overworked officer who is responsible for this but some sick individual whose mental state sadly caused him to act in such an evil manner.

[Fellside]

3 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Of course there is but not if one side remains in denial and the other intent in running roughshod over the other.

What is wrong with a medical input? We already have it but it is in a right mess and as it is not going to go away. Surely, ratifying its content, making it fair to all and binding has advantages for everyone.

What kicked this current situation off has largely been shown to have been the level of police firearms units officers' training. This is not going to be too comfortable for all those concerned. Also, any actions routinely taken by officers which are well outside agreed guidelines should not go unremarked. It's not too difficult from reading some internet forum posts to see that our working knowledge is not all it might be. Is it possible that it would stand us in good stead with Joe Public and restore some confidence if we were to reciprocate and to agree to some form of voluntary training biased towards safety and the law?

What we have to remember though it is not some poor overworked officer who is responsible for this but some sick individual whose mental state sadly caused him to act in such an evil manner.

Hi Wimbey, thanks for that. While your angles of thought are interesting, I was picking up on a point made above - saving the 410 by adopting New Zealand’s approach. Perhaps there is hope….?!