Striking Doctors and the Hippocratic Oath

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Do these health professionals still take the Hippocratic Oath?

 

An awful lot of cancelled operations and appointments that are denying patients of the help/treatment they need.

[Gordon R]

They had their egos massaged during Covid and now want to cash in. There are many, many hardworking staff in the NHS who genuinely want to help, but there is a small core of bone idle, work from home, money grabbers too.

[TOPGUN749]

It’s the Tory Government’s plan to destroy the NHS and force everyone to pay private as the have done with dentistry. By refusing to pay more than £14 an hour to the junior doctors they cause strikes,and patients suffer or pay privately.What makes an MP worth about £90,000 a year and they have enough spare time to have 2nd and 3rd jobs.Some even have radio chat shows.

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

They had their egos massaged during Covid and now want to cash in. There are many, many hardworking staff in the NHS who genuinely want to help, but there is a small core of bone idle, work from home, money grabbers too.

This ^^^

We rent out two flats in Truro to Doctors from Royal Cornwall Hospital.  I see their proof of income when  they do the credit checks

Edited June 24, 2023 by Vince Green

[oldypigeonpopper]

37 minutes ago, TOPGUN749 said:

It’s the Tory Government’s plan to destroy the NHS and force everyone to pay private as the have done with dentistry. By refusing to pay more than £14 an hour to the junior doctors they cause strikes,and patients suffer or pay privately.What makes an MP worth about £90,000 a year and they have enough spare time to have 2nd and 3rd jobs.Some even have radio chat shows.

Most MP s are just plain greedy, £14 does not seem much if you have a degree and training to be a NHS professional 🤔

[sportsbob]

2 hours ago, TOPGUN749 said:

It’s the Tory Government’s plan to destroy the NHS and force everyone to pay private as the have done with dentistry. By refusing to pay more than £14 an hour to the junior doctors they cause strikes,and patients suffer or pay privately.What makes an MP worth about £90,000 a year and they have enough spare time to have 2nd and 3rd jobs.Some even have radio chat shows.

I assume that Liebore or the Wets would get the money from their money tree .  If all of the political party's were not bowing to the WEF , the UN the ECHR etc then we wouldn't have many of the problems currently growing in the west and as a result there would be more money for those that pay in.

[wymberley]

I can't say, "I for one", because I'm pretty sure that the other two old west country geezers who travelled up to London with me in an ambulance car - and back 48 hours later  after having had a TAVI - please Google if necessary - also agree that we'd rather not have had a heart operation carried out by a fair few highly skilled professionals but who someone else - with no necessary qualifications what-so-ever - has decided that just £14 an hour is a fair wage. Obviously, it's highly likely that these guys (and dolls - you should have seen my anesthetist) were earning (hopefully) a damned sight more than that. I would also hope that a young recently qualified medic employed as a GP is deemed - and is and is paid accordingly - to be worth more that a Tesco's shelf filler on overtime as important as that job is.

What also strikes me as ex Service who used to say that we only got 1/1d an hour. Fair enough as we were supposedly on duty 24/7 and our actual pay was a tad over £9 a week. But as far as I'm aware no one has had anything to say regarding the validity of the £14 figure so one can only assume that this is correct and if so I for one think that this is a disgrace.

Edited June 24, 2023 by wymberley

[Lloyd90]

5 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Do these health professionals still take the Hippocratic Oath?

 

An awful lot of cancelled operations and appointments that are denying patients of the help/treatment they need.

The ultimate power of any worker ever is to choose to withhold their Labour. 
 

Anyone in any sort of care industry has been held hostage over threats or “if you strike it’ll hurt the service users / patients” for years. 
 

This is long overdue. 

[sportsbob]

12 minutes ago, wymberley said:

I can't say, "I for one", because I'm pretty sure that the other two old west country geezers who travelled up to London with me in an ambulance car - and back 48 hours later  after having had a TAVI - please Google if necessary - also agree that we'd rather not have had a heart operation carried out by a fair few highly skilled professionals but who someone else - with no necessary qualifications what-so-ever - has decided that just £14 an hour is a fair wage. Obviously, it's highly likely that these guys (and dolls - you should have seen my anesthetist) were earning (hopefully) a damned sight more than that. I would also hope that a young recently qualified medic employed as a GP is deemed - and is and is paid accordingly - to be worth more that a Tesco's shelf filler on overtime as important as that job is.

What also strikes me as ex Service who used to say that we only got 1/1d an hour. Fair enough as we were supposedly on duty 24/7 and our actual pay was a tad over £9 a week. But as far as I'm aware no one has had anything to say regarding the validity of the £14 figure so one can only assume that this is correct and if so I for one think that this is a disgrace.

The current pay is just under £30k p/a so closer to £15 per hour in year 0-1 without enhancements which can increase the pay by 30% , by year ten a more realistic figure is £38.50 per hour. On top of that there are lots on larger shops that will give a "blue light discount" further enhancing their salaries, please don't forget these are Doctors not Consultants or Surgeons .

[Lloyd90]

4 hours ago, Gordon R said:

They had their egos massaged during Covid and now want to cash in. There are many, many hardworking staff in the NHS who genuinely want to help, but there is a small core of bone idle, work from home, money grabbers too.

How many Doctors are working from home? 

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 minute ago, sportsbob said:

The current pay is just under £30k p/a so closer to £15 per hour in year 0-1 without enhancements which can increase the pay by 30% , by year ten a more realistic figure is £38.50 per hour. On top of that there are lots on larger shops that will give a "blue light discount" further enhancing their salaries, please don't forget these are Doctors not Consultants or Surgeons .

Good post 👍

[Lloyd90]

Just now, sportsbob said:

The current pay is just under £30k p/a so closer to £15 per hour in year 0-1 without enhancements which can increase the pay by 30% , by year ten a more realistic figure is £38.50 per hour. On top of that there are lots on larger shops that will give a "blue light discount" further enhancing their salaries, please don't forget these are Doctors not Consultants or Surgeons .

It’s £15 per hour for a set amount of hours. If you think it’s the type of job you can just walk out at the time you are due to finish then you’re dreaming. 
 

They are regularly going well over those hours without any scope to get that time back or paid for it. 
 

I remember a paramedic left at his due time a few years ago as he had been telling his employer for months it was his daughters graduation and he could not miss it. No one took over from him; the patient sat in the back died and they sacked him and struck him off! An extreme situation but that’s a reality of the role. 
 

 

Yes further down the line they are on good money, but they’re doctors for Christ sake! If you can’t make good money as a doctor after that many years of school, training and working that much then god help us all! 
 

The Australian government paid to send truck loads of advertising material to the Doctors strikes recently offering them to come to Oz, for higher pay and less work.
 

Next week this forum will have a thread moaning about being unable to get GP appointments, NHS waiting lists and how the country is going down the pan! 🤦‍♂️

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, sportsbob said:

The current pay is just under £30k p/a so closer to £15 per hour in year 0-1 without enhancements which can increase the pay by 30% , by year ten a more realistic figure is £38.50 per hour. On top of that there are lots on larger shops that will give a "blue light discount" further enhancing their salaries, please don't forget these are Doctors not Consultants or Surgeons .

Doctors pay has to be seen in part against skills and qualifications but also in part against supply and demand. There are simply not enough of them. We need to pay more and encourage more through training. Either that or change the service offered by the NHS. 

Not forgetting of course the opportunities available to them abroad. 

[Lloyd90]

If I was a Doctor I’d be off abroad after the response from the Government etc showing how much they don’t value them. 

[jall25]

I dont think its too few doctors - I thinks its too many patients

I smashed my leg up and to witness the people that thought it was sensible to go to A and E for simply nothing - and i mean nothing was outrageous. 

If a "small" fee - twenty quid or something - was payable many of these people would simply not have been there.

 

I ended up having the craic with a couple of the nurses as i was on gas and air - and they were saying how many people come in for the gas and air or other medicines without any health issues 

 

So much of the issue in the NHS is plain and simply poor management 

[wymberley]

7 minutes ago, jall25 said:

I dont think its too few doctors - I thinks its too many patients

I smashed my leg up and to witness the people that thought it was sensible to go to A and E for simply nothing - and i mean nothing was outrageous. 

If a "small" fee - twenty quid or something - was payable many of these people would simply not have been there.

 

I ended up having the craic with a couple of the nurses as i was on gas and air - and they were saying how many people come in for the gas and air or other medicines without any health issues 

 

So much of the issue in the NHS is plain and simply poor management 

Emphasis on, "or something" as £20 is a small fortune for some. But, yep, I could live with that.

In my last post I mentioned the Services. It took 3 full years to train me and during which time I was a drain on the ration strength. I know we're talking young doctors, but down here - and elsewhere I believe - we have shortfall in dentists. To repay  what our training cost plus our 'pay' we had to 'sign on' for 12 years. How about a medic of whatever discipline pays in full for their training as they go along and then on qualifying are free to seek whatever employment they wish: or, pay nothing but agree to a fixed but index linked salary for an 'x' period of time working within the NHS.

Or is that too simple?

[Lloyd90]

16 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Emphasis on, "or something" as £20 is a small fortune for some. But, yep, I could live with that.

In my last post I mentioned the Services. It took 3 full years to train me and during which time I was a drain on the ration strength. I know we're talking young doctors, but down here - and elsewhere I believe - we have shortfall in dentists. To repay  what our training cost plus our 'pay' we had to 'sign on' for 12 years. How about a medic of whatever discipline pays in full for their training as they go along and then on qualifying are free to seek whatever employment they wish: or, pay nothing but agree to a fixed but index linked salary for an 'x' period of time working within the NHS.

Or is that too simple?

As already said, supply and demand, we don’t have enough so you’d introduce restrictions that make it even less favourable to become a Doctor? 
 

43 minutes ago, jall25 said:

I dont think its too few doctors - I thinks its too many patients

I smashed my leg up and to witness the people that thought it was sensible to go to A and E for simply nothing - and i mean nothing was outrageous. 

If a "small" fee - twenty quid or something - was payable many of these people would simply not have been there.

 

I ended up having the craic with a couple of the nurses as i was on gas and air - and they were saying how many people come in for the gas and air or other medicines without any health issues 

 

So much of the issue in the NHS is plain and simply poor management 

Legislation and lawsuits, the worlds become afraid of telling the messers to sod off. 
 

The reason they keep presenting is cos they get what they want. 
 

If they sat there for 5 hours and were then told to **** off they’d stop going. 
 

Some luvvy will plead “duty of care” and so on. 
 

We had 2 people yesterday call our emergency team claiming to be homeless; they’d not paid their rent despite having the money, then turned down what they were offered cos it wasn’t nice enough. 
 

I refused to house them in emergency accommodation as they had no care needs and were intentionally homeless.

 

What do they do? Phone an ambulance… and the bloody paramedic after being told that I wasn’t housing them still said “well if you’re not going to fulfil your duty of care I will” and she decided they’d have to be taken to Hospital for th entire weekend. 
 

I am sure the overburdened A&E will love that! 

[Rem260]

22 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

As already said, supply and demand, we don’t have enough so you’d introduce restrictions that make it even less favourable to become a Doctor? 
 

Legislation and lawsuits, the worlds become afraid of telling the messers to sod off. 
 

The reason they keep presenting is cos they get what they want. 
 

If they sat there for 5 hours and were then told to **** off they’d stop going. 
 

Some luvvy will plead “duty of care” and so on. 
 

We had 2 people yesterday call our emergency team claiming to be homeless; they’d not paid their rent despite having the money, then turned down what they were offered cos it wasn’t nice enough. 
 

I refused to house them in emergency accommodation as they had no care needs and were intentionally homeless.

 

What do they do? Phone an ambulance… and the bloody paramedic after being told that I wasn’t housing them still said “well if you’re not going to fulfil your duty of care I will” and she decided they’d have to be taken to Hospital for th entire weekend. 
 

I am sure the overburdened A&E will love that! 

What medical emergency did she take them into hospital with?

[Lloyd90]

9 minutes ago, Rem260 said:

What medical emergency did she take them into hospital with?

None, they were (intentionally) homeless. 

[old man]

1 hour ago, jall25 said:

I dont think its too few doctors - I thinks its too many patients

I smashed my leg up and to witness the people that thought it was sensible to go to A and E for simply nothing - and i mean nothing was outrageous. 

If a "small" fee - twenty quid or something - was payable many of these people would simply not have been there.

 

I ended up having the craic with a couple of the nurses as i was on gas and air - and they were saying how many people come in for the gas and air or other medicines without any health issues 

 

So much of the issue in the NHS is plain and simply poor management 

A simple fiver would suffice IMHO?

 

[Weihrauch17]

6 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Most MP s are just plain greedy, £14 does not seem much if you have a degree and training to be a NHS professional 🤔

They are Apprentices who make big big money when they qualify.

[Gordon R]

 

Quote

How many Doctors are working from home? 

 I couldn't put a figure on that, but assume that you can. I can only speak about my own GPs practice - sometimes just one actually present at the surgery. The other half dozen or so take telephone consultations from home.

[amateur]

6 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

..... The other half dozen or so take telephone consultations from home.

and from the third green 🤣

[Newbie to this]

4 hours ago, wymberley said:

Or is that too simple?

No

[Lloyd90]

3 hours ago, old man said:

A simple fiver would suffice IMHO?

 

The same people who abuse the system and are down at the Hospital even when they don’t need to be are often (but not always) those same people who abuse lots of services, and aren’t in work, likely on benefits, and will say “I can’t pay I’m on benefits” and likely be given an exemption. 

They already pay no tax so don’t pay towards the system, so the tax paying working man and woman pays tax to find the system, then has to pay again to use it, whilst dossers continue to get it for free. 

Hardly a solution.