Bioammo Blue pigeons.

[matone]

After reading about Bioammo Blue cartridges for quite some time but never actually finding any to buy,I managed to get some of their 67mm 25gram #5 last week.Today I came across a fair smattering of pigeons on an oilseed rape stubble ,albeit late in the day! Got set up by 3.30 ,rotary and 4 dead birds for a start on a bright ,breezy afternoon.Had one box of 25gram Bio and put it through my Sabel s/s which weighs 6lb6oz. Had a few pigeons decoyed properly and more that were wary passing by.

The cartridges were pretty firm recoil wise but seemed to work well enough out to 35 yds and I ended up with 11 for 18 shots at normal range pigeons .I didn`t stretch the range  but  thought these patterned fairly tightly in the 1/4 & 1/2 chokes I had. So I`d say a small but successful experiment with another non toxic cartridge available for the future ,only tempered by the cost !

 

[arjimlad]

Good to know that!

[Sweet11-87]

yeah its no suprise they pattern tight with a steel cup wad. probably closer to 1/2 and 3/4. youve peaked my intrest im gona have to get some of them 25g of steel 5 sounds very intresting. thanks

[matone]

Blue are not steel,they`re a composite of bismuth,tin,zinc and aluminium. 295/1oz ,I believe.

Edited August 15, 2023 by matone

[marsh man]

Interesting trial , what is a box of 25 likely to cost.    THANKS

[Old farrier]

They work ok on clay however not sure how bio they are had some cases and wads in a hanging basket to simulate ejection into a hedge or wad ending up in a hedge for over two years now and they haven’t disappeared  

shot cam pics of biowad no 5 patterns 

[Fargo]

12 hours ago, Old farrier said:

They work ok on clay however not sure how bio they are had some cases and wads in a hanging basket to simulate ejection into a hedge or wad ending up in a hedge for over two years now and they haven’t disappeared  

shot cam pics of biowad no 5 patterns 

Same as my test on B&P Greencore cup wads. Still not brittle or decomposing having been in a flower bed since January.

[Smudger687]

This is the ugly truth of many biowad offerings; most do not degrade under normal conditions, and even fewer degrade under marine conditions in the absence of fungi.

Watch out for the weasel words of "biocompostable" or "made from renewable sources".

You can make HDPE from renewable sources, and biocompostable wads typically will only degrade in an industrial composter operating at 60 degrees Celsius. These terms mean next to nothing. 

Bioammos are excellent downrange performers, but they are lying when they say its biodegradable. I've asked them for empirical data that shows their wads degrade under normal conditions and they ignored me.

I think that the only options that are genuinely biodegradable are the water soluble wads sold by eley and by gamebore, or the old fibre cup wads sold by gamebore or clay and game. The others are just standard plaswads for all intents and purposes. 

[bev6345]

I've got a review coming out in a couple of weeks, the shot is strange not one of them is anywhere near round or the same size.

also have the components out in the garden to see how long they take to decompose, after 3 weeks the brass has started to rust but the wad and case are still like new.

[Fargo]

9 hours ago, Smudger687 said:

This is the ugly truth of many biowad offerings; most do not degrade under normal conditions, and even fewer degrade under marine conditions in the absence of fungi.

Watch out for the weasel words of "biocompostable" or "made from renewable sources".

You can make HDPE from renewable sources, and biocompostable wads typically will only degrade in an industrial composter operating at 60 degrees Celsius. These terms mean next to nothing. 

Bioammos are excellent downrange performers, but they are lying when they say its biodegradable. I've asked them for empirical data that shows their wads degrade under normal conditions and they ignored me.

I think that the only options that are genuinely biodegradable are the water soluble wads sold by eley and by gamebore, or the old fibre cup wads sold by gamebore or clay and game. The others are just standard plaswads for all intents and purposes. 

Well my mate let all the guns use the Hydrowads last season as he hates normal plastic and was moaning that thousands of wads are still there laid about. I said I’d bet they will be there for a decade at least on view on grass valleys.

They have banned them this season and it’s fibre only or Eco wads or the new UER Gamebores

[Smudger687]

Just now, Fargo said:

Well my mate let all the guns use the Hydrowads last season as he hates normal plastic and was moaning that thousands of wads are still there laid about. I said I’d bet they will be there for a decade at least on view on grass valleys.

They have banned them this season and it’s fibre only or Eco wads or the new UER Gamebores

If by Hydrowads you mean Hull's option then yes it's not surprising, as I believe they use B&P's greencore wad as the design looks almost identical, and Hull aren't known for manufacturing their own components.

[joejoe]

Bought some of the bio ammo lux steel and tested them on the weekend, 100% successful so far and not bad at £99 for a slab about comparable to most game cartridges. 

[matone]

On 15/08/2023 at 21:45, marsh man said:

Interesting trial , what is a box of 25 likely to cost.    THANKS

£36 for two boxes........

[marsh man]

8 hours ago, matone said:

£36 for two boxes........

Wow , that to me is a lot of money , maybe I spend to much time looking back and not enough time looking ahead .

THANKS for the update 

[dead eye alan]

8 hours ago, matone said:

£36 for two boxes........

Cooor that just made my eyes water. 🥵

[HantsRob]

12 hours ago, bev6345 said:

I've got a review coming out in a couple of weeks, the shot is strange not one of them is anywhere near round or the same size.

Bioammo Blue comprises of an alloy mixture of Bismuth, Aluminium, Tin and Zinc, producing performance similar to that of lead. (source: JustCarts)

 

With that in mind, i don't know much about chemistry but lead shot often changes shape as it's shot, and I wonder how important the shape of the pellet will be on this. OF's picture shows they seem to pattern ok.

It's just a shame it's biodegradable under industrial conditions, and not residential.

4 minutes ago, dead eye alan said:

Cooor that just made my eyes water. 🥵

To be fair, my local clay ground is now £10 a box for 'normal' club level clay busters. That also felt painful.

[Smudger687]

Just now, HantsRob said:

Bioammo Blue comprises of an alloy mixture of Bismuth, Aluminium, Tin and Zinc, producing performance similar to that of lead. (source: JustCarts)

 

With that in mind, i don't know much about chemistry but lead shot often changes shape as it's shot, and I wonder how important the shape of the pellet will be on this. OF's picture shows they seem to pattern ok.

It's just a shame it's biodegradable under industrial conditions, and not residential.

More marketing hype, unfortunately. Density of the blue shot is ~8.3 g/cm^3, little better than plain old steel shot, and definitely not as effective as lead. Deformed pellets make little difference inside of 35 yards.

[HantsRob]

49 minutes ago, Smudger687 said:

More marketing hype, unfortunately. Density of the blue shot is ~8.3 g/cm^3, little better than plain old steel shot, and definitely not as effective as lead. Deformed pellets make little difference inside of 35 yards.

Agreed on distance.

I'm curious if new bio claimed ammunition needs to have new information on spec sheets, or is 35-40 yards still the maximum distance what most game is shot at?

[Smudger687]

2 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

Agreed on distance.

I'm curious if new bio claimed ammunition needs to have new information on spec sheets, or is 35-40 yards still the maximum distance what most game is shot at?

Good luck get anything technical actually nailed down from them! Bioammo as a company is surprisingly disorganized, the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing; their latest 3 inch blue cartridge contains 35g of shot, and yet they claim that the blue shot density is ~9.3 g/cm^3, which is almost as high as bismuth shot at ~9.6.

For the density to be this high, the shot would have to be mostly bismuth, and yet they're selling it for ~800 quid per thousand instead of genuine bismuth which goes at ~1500-1600 per thousand. Plus, with a density that high, they would have so much excess space left in a 3 inch cartridge as to be unusable. 

When I contacted bioammo about this, they swore blind that the shot was 9.3, and that they take up the excess space by deepening the crimp - despite the fact they would need to crimp so deep that it would crush the wad if they did this. 

Lo and behold, when I contacted the UK distributors of bioammo blue and put the same question to them, they confirmed it was a load of rubbish and that the shot density is ~8.3. 

My own experiences of brittleness of their wads in cold weather and the complete inability to get a truthful answer from them means that I will not be using their products in future. 

[enfieldspares]

On 16/08/2023 at 10:53, Smudger687 said:

This is the ugly truth of many biowad offerings; most do not degrade under normal conditions, and even fewer degrade under marine conditions in the absence of fungi.

For which, thank God, we should all be grateful. Or at least those of us who sometimes find that a slab of cartridges of some loads and sizes may last two, three, for, five years. Like the 1 1/6 ounce fibre wad English #5 I have for the odd rabbit and hare that may be the quarry or late season post Christmas low flying cock pheasants. I'd be very very fearful of future use of bio wadded steel shot cartridges where the wad may have degraded inside the cartridge sufficient to let even one pellet be on contact with the barrel walls. See below. That exactly.

1 hour ago, Smudger687 said:

My own experiences of brittleness of their wads in cold weather...

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by enfieldspares

[Smudger687]

33 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

For which, thank God, we should all be grateful. Or at least those of us who sometimes find that a slab of cartridges of some loads and sizes may last two, three, for, five years. Like the 1 1/6 ounce fibre wad English #5 I have for the odd rabbit and hare that may be the quarry or late season post Christmas low flying cock pheasants. I'd be very very fearful of future use of bio wadded steel shot cartridges where the wad may have degraded inside the cartridge sufficient to let even one pellet be on contact with the barrel walls. See below. That exactly.

 

But this is my point - the bioammos don't degrade under normal conditions but they still became brittle in the cold. Despite their green credentials they are effectively no different to a standard plaswad. You may as well just use plaswad ammunition and save your money. 

Having done some research on this topic there are is only one polymer that I'm aware of that fulfils all criteria of long term stability, favourable mechanical properties required for shotgun wadding, and genuine biodegradeability even in marine environments. And guess what, not a single manufacturer is using it in any of their offerings as the polymer isn't being made by anyone. 

[matone]

I take the whole issue of non-toxic for the nonsense that it and all the other eco,green ,global warmth ,trendy issues are.

The point is ,here we have a future legal loading that meets the standards set by authority ,which can be used in ordinary game guns by those of us who wish to use them.Whether they live up to the eco hype is of no issue, legality and performance are.

[London Best]

22 minutes ago, matone said:

I take the whole issue of non-toxic for the nonsense that it and all the other eco,green ,global warmth ,trendy issues are.

The point is ,here we have a future legal loading that meets the standards set by authority ,which can be used in ordinary game guns by those of us who wish to use them.Whether they live up to the eco hype is of no issue, legality and performance are.

Good point.

[Fargo]

On 16/08/2023 at 20:55, Smudger687 said:

If by Hydrowads you mean Hull's option then yes it's not surprising, as I believe they use B&P's greencore wad as the design looks almost identical, and Hull aren't known for manufacturing their own components.

B&P have said that the Greencore wad breaks down in the same time frame as a fibre which I believe is about 10-12 months.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Fargo

[Peter Harris]

Once again an interesting topic about totally useless and ineffective ammunition to appease the 'Ban Lead Shot Party ' .

I'm a simple chap, may I ask a simple question please?

If Ducks and Birds die from picking up Lead shot , and we will eventually ban Lead shot what will happen to the tons of lead shot deposited on our land, lakes, and rivers will it miraculously disappear overnight ?