The Met

[amateur]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Really? And you would know would you? I’m assuming in that case, you’re a graduate? 

Post-graduate, actually.

My point is that the higher that you go up the educational or professional ladder, the more specialised your knowledge becomes. 

[Scully]

4 minutes ago, amateur said:

Post-graduate, actually.

My point is that the higher that you go up the educational or professional ladder, the more specialised your knowledge becomes. 

Good for you. My son is busy with his PHD and my daughter has her Masters. 
My point is I resent those who haven’t done it, belittling the achievements of those who have. I know the amount of work that goes into these achievements. 

[spanj]

On 23/11/2023 at 20:48, Minky said:

My father used to bang on about national service.   The system was broken right from the start.  The cry of the weak and the corrupt.  National service might have been OK in the cannon fodder days to be armed with a stick or pitchfork or just to keep the populace off of the street but what effective training could be given in two years, especially when a lot of it was wasted in pointless square bashing or junkers.  How many of those actually said this is fantastic I'll sign on for x years.  The vast majority counted down the days toget out.  That's why it went to a professional army. I  look forward to rational  comments. For debate. 

Please comment on how the swiss manage their national service then ? ( they have the choice between military and civic, the civic being longer) ?

On 23/11/2023 at 21:22, udderlyoffroad said:

Indeed it’s amazing how many National Service enthusiasts never actually suffered the inconvenience of doing it themselves.

Although there were a few officer class stragglers, the youngest national servicemen are now north of 85.

It was abolished for a good reason, the UK needed a professional armed forces to cope with the complexities of operating & maintaining kit in the jet/nuclear age, not a massive youth training scheme.

The days of national service, in the traditional sense at least, are long gone, and have been for nearly 4 generations.

As per my question to Minky. Please comment on how the swiss manage their national service then ? ( they have the choice between military and civic, the civic being longer) ?

[Bigbob]

18 hours ago, shaun4860 said:

A university degree is basically to prove that you can learn things.

Helps a few of them learn to flip burgers 

[Bigbob]

2 hours ago, amateur said:

You go to university to find out more and more about less and less.

I did 25 years  security in a big university a quarter of them drop out in the first term as they cant handle it , there's a big problem with drink its so cheap at the students union we had a ongoing fight with the union staff once a student became drunk they walked them past the mono block and left them sitting on the slabs where they became securities problem the nightshifts we had to check on drunk students every 20 minutes and the amount we had to call a ambulance on and get there stomachs pumped out . And the drug culture the amount we caught and police caught the university's dont publice that incase students wont apply to that university . Its all about bums on seats that bring in the money 

[Scully]

30 minutes ago, Bigbob said:

Helps a few of them learn to flip burgers 

I don’t understand this type of mentality at all! What is wrong with working at McDonalds and why are those who do, regarded as some sort of sub species? 
Some folks can’t win, it would seem, not with many on this forum anyhow; they criticise those who claim benefits rather than work, but then belittle those who work in such places as KFC and McDonalds! 
My daughter worked part time in a McDonalds to make ends meet, and also on the tills in Asda, as well as waiting on, while at uni’. My son got out of bed at 4am to work on a market stall to sub’ his uni’ education. 
 

33 minutes ago, Bigbob said:

I did 25 years  security in a big university a quarter of them drop out in the first term as they cant handle it , there's a big problem with drink its so cheap at the students union we had a ongoing fight with the union staff once a student became drunk they walked them past the mono block and left them sitting on the slabs where they became securities problem the nightshifts we had to check on drunk students every 20 minutes and the amount we had to call a ambulance on and get there stomachs pumped out . And the drug culture the amount we caught and police caught the university's dont publice that incase students wont apply to that university . Its all about bums on seats that bring in the money 

Nothing like a sweeping generalisation is there? Especially one regarding higher education, ironically conducted with such poor basic spelling and grammar eh! 😂

[enfieldspares]

On 23/11/2023 at 20:48, Minky said:

My father used to bang on about national service.

There's tow viewpoints and a third actual truth. One is that it was a waste of time two years that could have been better used. The other is that is was a right of passage that gave the individual a sense of bel9nging to a greater thing.

The third and actual truth is that it gave military training, the ability to work in a team and to make a follow through a plan as a cohesive unit. Not really something I'd be wanting to impart to any who would late make use of it either as terrorists or as criminals.

And the actual "customer" who would be having to accommodate all this? The British Army? I doubt you'll find any there that would welcome its return. And it's that voice we should heed not that of looney right.

[ph5172]

I recall reading that a rather high proportion of people have at one time worked in the Golden Arches. 
The exact figure escapes me but it was something staggering. 
I am sure a lot of ‘successful’ people owe some of this to flipping burger as a youngster or to top up a student loan 
 

they are also touted as having one of the best management training programmes going. 

[shaun4860]

6 hours ago, Scully said:

Thought so. It’s often the case that those who didn’t do it belittle those who have. Weird. 

I’m not belittling it, I’m just saying going to uni and getting a degree proves you can work and learn without constant supervision.

Which is. Good thing.

Did you go to uni, get a degree and in what subject?

And has your degree subject helped you find employment?

[shaun4860]

5 hours ago, Scully said:

I don’t understand this type of mentality at all! What is wrong with working at McDonalds and why are those who do, regarded as some sort of sub species? 
Some folks can’t win, it would seem, not with many on this forum anyhow; they criticise those who claim benefits rather than work, but then belittle those who work in such places as KFC and McDonalds! 
My daughter worked part time in a McDonalds to make ends meet, and also on the tills in Asda, as well as waiting on, while at uni’. My son got out of bed at 4am to work on a market stall to sub’ his uni’ education. 

There is nothing wrong with working at MacDonalds or any other what is perceived as a menial job.

Everybody has a part to play, it also shows they have the right outlook rather than just sitting about.

My nephew worked at MacDonalds whilst awaiting a start date for his apprenticeship in the RAF as a fast jet tech.

He is now a chief tech on a C130 squadron.

His work ethic got him this far and he has now served for 16+ years to wherever they have sent him including 2 tours of Afghan and was also there on the last week of evacuation 

[udderlyoffroad]

On 25/11/2023 at 17:31, spanj said:

Please comment on how the swiss manage their national service then ? ( they have the choice between military and civic, the civic being longer) ?

As per my question to Minky. Please comment on how the swiss manage their national service then ? ( they have the choice between military and civic, the civic being longer) ?

The 'civic' -  civil defence.  Widely acknowledged by everyone involved as a total waste of time and money.  Known colloquially as 'potato peelers'

The Swiss military top brass, and indeed most politicians, are desperate to pursue a professional army strategy.  However, because it's baked into the constitution that "every young man is obliged to serve" - if you will, their take on the US second amendment, only with the emphasis "on the right to keep and bear arms as part of a well organised militia".  In order to change the constitution, it would not only require the approval of both chambers in their parliament, but also a yes from the people in a referendum, the latter of which will never happen, as it's so baked in to the Swiss national culture.

However...slowly but surely fewer and fewer 20 yr olds are serving, medical exemptions are pretty easy to obtain.  It used to be that Switzerland's army was, like Israel's, a 'standing militia' - i.e. you did your basic training and specialisation, then took your kit home with you, rifle included.  You then pitched up for 3-week refresher training courses every year till you were 40 or 45.  This, you can imagine, was pretty unpopular amongst employers, as they are obliged to give you time off.  So they introduced the option of doing all your service in one stint, which more and more people are taking up, especially those whose career options are not just limited to Switzerland.

Finally, the Swiss don't just allow amateurs to operate complex expensive kit.   Yes, they might still have the odd part-time F5 pilot, but the people who maintain them are all full-time professionals.  Same with officers above a certain rank.

 

 

[Scully]

I can recall a time when all those young Turks couldn’t wait to get waiting on jobs in the UK to avoid their national service. 🙂

[old man]

On 24/11/2023 at 21:38, Lloyd90 said:

 

They should replace it with NHS / Local Authority national service. 
 

Help out at your local hospital or local area. 
 

 

No thanks, after being involved on the periphery of something like that 40years? ago.

It was an absolute cluster ****, impossible to control them then, *od knows about now. Mind you it would reduce the waiting lists at the hospital?

[Scully]

On 25/11/2023 at 23:53, shaun4860 said:

I’m not belittling it, I’m just saying going to uni and getting a degree proves you can work and learn without constant supervision.

Which is. Good thing.

Did you go to uni, get a degree and in what subject?

And has your degree subject helped you find employment?

No, never had any further education after leaving school, although I’m not sure what that proves. 

[shaun4860]

4 hours ago, Scully said:

No, never had any further education after leaving school, although I’m not sure what that proves. 

Me neither but you asked if I had 🤷🏻‍♂️

[spanj]

On 27/11/2023 at 09:22, udderlyoffroad said:

The 'civic' -  civil defence.  Widely acknowledged by everyone involved as a total waste of time and money.  Known colloquially as 'potato peelers'

The Swiss military top brass, and indeed most politicians, are desperate to pursue a professional army strategy.  However, because it's baked into the constitution that "every young man is obliged to serve" - if you will, their take on the US second amendment, only with the emphasis "on the right to keep and bear arms as part of a well organised militia".  In order to change the constitution, it would not only require the approval of both chambers in their parliament, but also a yes from the people in a referendum, the latter of which will never happen, as it's so baked in to the Swiss national culture.

However...slowly but surely fewer and fewer 20 yr olds are serving, medical exemptions are pretty easy to obtain.  It used to be that Switzerland's army was, like Israel's, a 'standing militia' - i.e. you did your basic training and specialisation, then took your kit home with you, rifle included.  You then pitched up for 3-week refresher training courses every year till you were 40 or 45.  This, you can imagine, was pretty unpopular amongst employers, as they are obliged to give you time off.  So they introduced the option of doing all your service in one stint, which more and more people are taking up, especially those whose career options are not just limited to Switzerland.

Finally, the Swiss don't just allow amateurs to operate complex expensive kit.   Yes, they might still have the odd part-time F5 pilot, but the people who maintain them are all full-time professionals.  Same with officers above a certain rank.

 

 

So it does work ! Not perfectly but nothing does !

[Scully]

7 hours ago, shaun4860 said:

Me neither but you asked if I had 🤷🏻‍♂️

Fair enough. I was only puzzled as to these authorities spouting off about the usefulness of universities and those who attended, but whom hadn’t actually been. 
Anyhow, to get back on topic I watched last nights episode, filled with coppers let down by victims who won’t press charges and a judicial system seemingly with a default setting of keeping people out of prison. 

[Westley]

I must have misunderstood the law regarding domestics. 25 years ago it was accepted that failure to make, or a withdrawal of, a complainant statement because "I luv im "  and that was case closed. Due to condemnation of 'Police Attitudes' towards domestic violence and how they 'Did Nothing' (which usually led to further and more severe violence), I thought the law had changed. I understood that the aggressor could be arrested with or without a victim statement  ?  Obviously not. It was not uncommon to attend the same domestic several times during the Watch, so the aggressor would be coaxed outside, whereby he could be arrested for other offences, (usually drunkenness related) which led to a quieter Watch for all  !  Job done.

[12gauge82]

I don't believe higher education is right for everyone and certainly since Tony Blairs education, education, education, many have got degrees with the large debts that has come with it, for very little benefit.

I think it often depends on the subject studied and what employment someone wants at the end of it. To simply do a degree for the sake of it is probably unwise for most people.

2 minutes ago, Westley said:

I must have misunderstood the law regarding domestics. 25 years ago it was accepted that failure to make, or a withdrawal of, a complainant statement because "I luv im "  and that was case closed. Due to condemnation of 'Police Attitudes' towards domestic violence and how they 'Did Nothing' (which usually led to further and more severe violence), I thought the law had changed. I understood that the aggressor could be arrested with or without a victim statement  ?  Obviously not. It was not uncommon to attend the same domestic several times during the Watch, so the aggressor would be coaxed outside, whereby he could be arrested for other offences, (usually drunkenness related) which led to a quieter Watch for all  !  Job done.

I would have thought dealing with a domestic as a police officer these days is a potential minefield, with any harm coming to a victim leading to the officer being held accountable for the offenders actions if they've not meticulously dotted their I's and crossed their Ts.

[Scully]

12 minutes ago, Westley said:

I must have misunderstood the law regarding domestics. 25 years ago it was accepted that failure to make, or a withdrawal of, a complainant statement because "I luv im "  and that was case closed. Due to condemnation of 'Police Attitudes' towards domestic violence and how they 'Did Nothing' (which usually led to further and more severe violence), I thought the law had changed. I understood that the aggressor could be arrested with or without a victim statement  ?  Obviously not. It was not uncommon to attend the same domestic several times during the Watch, so the aggressor would be coaxed outside, whereby he could be arrested for other offences, (usually drunkenness related) which led to a quieter Watch for all  !  Job done.

I think in one of the cases of domestic violence ( he had beaten his wife repeatedly after she refused to keep an appointment he had made without her knowledge or consent, to terminate a pregnancy…..seems like a nice bloke )  the police did try to prosecute, but I cant recall what the result was now. 
Another bloke who had a history of flashing was sentenced to 20 months but suspended for 2 years, and another mentally disturbed bloke with the longest string of sexual assaults one officer ‘had ever seen’ didn’t suffer any consequences after an ‘interview’ proved too difficult for him. 
He had first assaulted at 10 years old ( in his 60’s now ) and the only time he hadn’t committed an assault was when he was inside, which begs the question ‘then why keep letting him out’? Is it me? 

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Fair enough. I was only puzzled as to these authorities spouting off about the usefulness of universities and those who attended, but whom hadn’t actually been. 
Anyhow, to get back on topic I watched last nights episode, filled with coppers let down by victims who won’t press charges and a judicial system seemingly with a default setting of keeping people out of prison. 

I really struggle to watch it. I consider myself tolerant of most but I find this excruciating. There is so much going wrong here at a victim level. Inadequate, policing, social services, sentencing, victim support the list goes on. How have we got all of this stuff so wrong? 

 

28 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I don't believe higher education is right for everyone and certainly since Tony Blairs education, education, education, many have got degrees with the large debts that has come with it, for very little benefit.

 

I cannot understand why we don't choose subjects that directly support UK plc and just fund them directly. Stem subjects as a starter should be free for those that secure a 2/1 or higher. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 25/11/2023 at 16:49, shaun4860 said:

God no, nowhere near clever enough.

But that seems to be the vibe from friends and family that did.

I know 3/4 people that went and studied forensic sciences and not one took it up as a job.

One became a store manager at Argos and then a supervisor on the 999 Ambulance line.

Neither job needed the degree she had but she proved she could learn

hello, That is a shame when there is a great need for forensic scientists🤔

[oowee]

10 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, That is a shame when there is a great need for forensic scientists🤔

Its one of the most popular courses following the TV hype and one with the fewest job opportunities. Psychology is another. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

Its one of the most popular courses following the TV hype and one with the fewest job opportunities. Psychology is another. 

hello, a quick google and there seems to be lots of vacancies in forensic science, 🤔

[sportsbob]

On 25/11/2023 at 16:49, shaun4860 said:

God no, nowhere near clever enough.

But that seems to be the vibe from friends and family that did.

I know 3/4 people that went and studied forensic sciences and not one took it up as a job.

One became a store manager at Argos and then a supervisor on the 999 Ambulance line.

Neither job needed the degree she had but she proved she could learn

And there is the perfect example why Uni should not be funded by the tax payer.

.