The joy of EV?

[oowee]

The negativity was the same when we moved from the horse and cart to the internal combustion engine. The Luddites could not see the opportunity. They are not suited to all (although that may change with new battery tech), but they are part of the solution. When I worked on EV strategy the manufacturers had hydrogen as a replacement for EV's phasing in from 2050. With the new battery tech that significantly increases energy density this change may never come. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

The negativity was the same when we moved from the horse and cart to the internal combustion engine. The Luddites could not see the opportunity. They are not suited to all (although that may change with new battery tech), but they are part of the solution. When I worked on EV strategy the manufacturers had hydrogen as a replacement for EV's phasing in from 2050. With the new battery tech that significantly increases energy density this change may never come. 

Wow! Your memory is very good.   

[Jaymo]

11 hours ago, team tractor said:

I have to ask tho . Is it boring ? No character? 
I miss 2 stroke bikes , I miss a manual gear box in my diesel van so couldn’t imagine having no character. 
vans are a long way off ready from what I’ve seen with 50-80 mile ranges . The new transit looks like it’s improving but my mates are driving 80-100k a year installing . 
 

genuine question👍

The new VW Buzz commercial is a diff beast to the early VW commercial offering which only had a range of around 60 to 80 from what I have read? Ok for inner city works, but nothing else. 
 

Being ex 2stroke motocross, four stroke race bikes then of course the experience is diff. But that’s talking bikes. 
Car wise, do I miss the sound? Nope ( I have turned off the computer generated noise ****). I have had auto cars/trucks for years and eating chicken nuggets from maccy d’s whilst changing gear isn’t my thing 😉

The experience of EV ownership, I can’t say it’s perfect when doing long journeys, but as most of my month is spent not doing so, it’s fine. But do I find it soulless, absolutely not, it’s a beast and makes me smile each time. 

[Jaymo]

11 hours ago, team tractor said:

I have to ask tho . Is it boring ? No character? 
I miss 2 stroke bikes , I miss a manual gear box in my diesel van so couldn’t imagine having no character. 
vans are a long way off ready from what I’ve seen with 50-80 mile ranges . The new transit looks like it’s improving but my mates are driving 80-100k a year installing . 
 

genuine question👍

The new VW Buzz commercial is a diff beast to the early VW commercial offering which only had a range of around 60 to 80 from what I have read? Ok for inner city works, but nothing else. 
 

Being ex 2stroke motocross, four stroke race bikes then of course the experience is diff. But that’s talking bikes. 
Car wise, do I miss the sound? Nope ( I have turned off the computer generated noise ****). I have had auto cars/trucks for years and eating chicken nuggets from maccy d’s whilst changing gear isn’t my thing 😉

The experience of EV ownership, I can’t say it’s perfect when doing long journeys, but as most of my month is spent not doing so, it’s fine. But do I find it soulless, absolutely not, it’s a beast and makes me smile each time. 

[oowee]

44 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Wow! Your memory is very good.   

😅 I wish it was 😂 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Interesting double post from Jaymo, must have been too many aperitives?

[udderlyoffroad]

I do wish someone would produce a hybrid diesel-electric pickup, you would get the best of both worlds, with a motor on each axle, or even in-wheel motors. Most of the time you’d run on battery, and on extended runs or towing, the diesel gen-set would kick in. No waiting around at motorway services to charge at extortionate rates with all the Teslaists either, just make sure both tanks are topped up before you leave, no “range anxiety”.

 

Probably need to advance a couple more generations in battery technology to offset the mass of the battery though.

[team tractor]

6 hours ago, Jaymo said:

The new VW Buzz commercial is a diff beast to the early VW commercial offering which only had a range of around 60 to 80 from what I have read? Ok for inner city works, but nothing else. 
 

Being ex 2stroke motocross, four stroke race bikes then of course the experience is diff. But that’s talking bikes. 
Car wise, do I miss the sound? Nope ( I have turned off the computer generated noise ****). I have had auto cars/trucks for years and eating chicken nuggets from maccy d’s whilst changing gear isn’t my thing 😉

The experience of EV ownership, I can’t say it’s perfect when doing long journeys, but as most of my month is spent not doing so, it’s fine. But do I find it soulless, absolutely not, it’s a beast and makes me smile each time. 

The buzz isn’t a van unfortunately in the same sense and it’s the ugliest thing I’ve seen 😂😂😂. 
cheers for the answer on soulless tho 👍

I do love hearing the terios bouncing off the rev limiter 😂😂😂😂. 
 

I kind of regret an auto now . It’s great on motorway journeys but I hate it pulling off quick etc or steady with gear in the back . I find it all or nothing . 

[billytheghillie]

And tell me when i charge my EV at service station, what do i do with my caravan?

[Jaymo]

9 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Interesting double post from Jaymo, must have been too many aperitives?

Nah, Norfolk internet. Pressed to post once and it took so long I must have pressed it again? 
 

1 hour ago, billytheghillie said:

And tell me when i charge my EV at service station, what do i do with my caravan?

Sit in it and make a cuppa. But how many EV’s have you seen towing anyway! Just like leccy hgv’s. But that doesn’t mean that the infrastructure won’t change to encompass them. 

[Jaymo]

3 hours ago, team tractor said:

 

 

I kind of regret an auto now . It’s great on motorway journeys but I hate it pulling off quick etc or steady with gear in the back . I find it all or nothing . 

That’s where the ev is so pleasing, everything is ‘instant’, no lag.

My boys love the acceleration and the way it forces you into the seat. 

[billytheghillie]

16 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Nah, Norfolk internet. Pressed to post once and it took so long I must have pressed it again? 
 

Sit in it and make a cuppa. But how many EV’s have you seen towing anyway! Just like leccy hgv’s. But that doesn’t mean that the infrastructure won’t change to encompass them. 

Cant sit in it, charging bays only take 1 vehicle. Loads of EV on the sites i have been on.

[Jaymo]

3 minutes ago, billytheghillie said:

Cant sit in it, charging bays only take 1 vehicle. Loads of EV on the sites i have been on.

Which is why I mentioned that the infrastructure will need to adapt, but it won’t as at the moment, I don’t think there are any full ev towing vehicles. But I may be wrong of course 

[Gordon R]

Whether you like EVs or not, I trust no-one will claim the environment is better with EVs.

Aside from the fact that they use electricity, the mining of lithium has a human cost.

Disposal of batteries is a problem.

The country's infrastructure would not support everyone , or most people having an EV.

They push up overall insurance costs and fill the atmosphere with more tyre rubber and brake dust.

[39TDS]

On 24/12/2023 at 19:48, Jaymo said:

My running costs have been half of my ICE vehicle was.

If you take into account the higher purchase price and reduced resale value of the EV and any other differences such as road fund or whatever it is called these days,  approximately what is the difference in overall costs?  I'm thinking the "cheap" fuel isn't a deal breaker when looking at the whole picture.

I'm not against EV or anyone that has one but they are the dearer option at the moment as far as I can figure out. Town dwellers have some advantage as do folk making short journeys and access to cheap electric. 

 

[Jaymo]

1 hour ago, 39TDS said:

If you take into account the higher purchase price and reduced resale value of the EV and any other differences such as road fund or whatever it is called these days,  approximately what is the difference in overall costs?  I'm thinking the "cheap" fuel isn't a deal breaker when looking at the whole picture.

I'm not against EV or anyone that has one but they are the dearer option at the moment as far as I can figure out. Town dwellers have some advantage as do folk making short journeys and access to cheap electric. 

 

Depreciation, well that depends on the vehicle of course?

Certain manufacturers of ICE Vehicles have residual values that make your eyes water, especially if you have gone for their executive models. Think top of the range Peugeot or Citroen, maybe an Alfa etc. 

The market for EV’a has tumbled, especially since the Government’s push back of the discontinuation of ICE Vehicle sales date. 
 

Do I feel like a  smug environmentalist for having it? Nope. Am I preaching that people should buy one?  Nope, for it’s a mentioned as to what suits the individual. 
For me and the type of driving that I do, it suits me. I didn’t purchase for residuals, practicality or environmental reasons, I purchased it as it’s a wee beastie and garners the attention of ‘the ladies’ 😉 

[Mungler]

This topic has been done a thousand times.

My last cars were Audi SQ5 (3 years), Audi SQ5 (3 years) (both leased), BMW 640 Cabrio (bought) and now the Jag IPace EV.

My next car will be electric because it works for me and all EV cars are phenomenal to drive. They are enormous ‘fun’. Top of my list currently is the BMW M series EV - now there’s a car to make your pants twitch. 

I business lease (because there’s still tax efficiency in leasing an EV), I’ve got solar panels on the roof at home and pre the solar installation the EV was costing me less than £70 a month to drive (and drive it hard I do).

They’re not for everyone. But I don’t know anyone with an EV who would go back to petrol / diesel or who has one for environmental reasons - it’s all about driving experience and tax as far as I can tell. 

There we go.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Mungler

[39TDS]

7 hours ago, Jaymo said:

Depreciation, well that depends on the vehicle of course?

Certain manufacturers of ICE Vehicles have residual values that make your eyes water, especially if you have gone for their executive models. Think top of the range Peugeot or Citroen, maybe an Alfa etc. 

The market for EV’a has tumbled, especially since the Government’s push back of the discontinuation of ICE Vehicle sales date. 
 

Do I feel like a  smug environmentalist for having it? Nope. Am I preaching that people should buy one?  Nope, for it’s a mentioned as to what suits the individual. 
For me and the type of driving that I do, it suits me. I didn’t purchase for residuals, practicality or environmental reasons, I purchased it as it’s a wee beastie and garners the attention of ‘the ladies’ 😉 

I asked about your halving of the running costs. It may well do that but the other costs involved with EV ownership wipes that benefit out many fold I am guessing.

Nothing to do with me what you drive and not prejudiced in any way for or against EV but at the moment reduced running costs are not going to sway the decision are they.

[Newbie to this]

You won't see 40 year old (even 20 year old, possibly a lot less) EVs driving around, well not unless you keep buying new expensive batteries to keep them going. 

Even if you never drove the car and left it sitting in a garage for 40 years, the battery would be dead beyond repair, even with regular maintenance.

A 40 year ICE car can and do, with regular maintenance, obviously not the battery, but, compared to an EV battery these are a drop in the ocean as far as cost.

As has already been said, they are not environmental at all.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Newbie to this

[amateur]

4 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

You won't see 40 year old (even 20 year old, possibly a lot less) EVs driving around, well not unless you keep buying new expensive batteries to keep them going. 

Even if you never drove the car and left it sitting in a garage for 40 years, the battery would be dead beyond repair, even with regular maintenance.

A 40 year ICE car can and do, with regular maintenance, obviously not the battery, but, compared to an EV battery these are a drop in the ocean as far as cost.

As has already been said, they are not environmental at all.

You are absolutely right. 

However you are weeing in the wind. Government policy, whether local or national will dictate what kind of vehicles are acceptable.

I only went electric because of that bf Genghis Khan. I'm pleasantly surprised by my Nissan Leaf. It certainly fills all my requirements.

You can rage against the Moon (mixing my metaphors), or just accept it.

 

[Jaymo]

2 hours ago, 39TDS said:

I asked about your halving of the running costs. It may well do that but the other costs involved with EV ownership wipes that benefit out many fold I am guessing.

Nothing to do with me what you drive and not prejudiced in any way for or against EV but at the moment reduced running costs are not going to sway the decision are they.

My insurance is the same

Maintenance costs are the same as other ICE models from this manufacturer but with a greater service interval 
 

Depreciation is no worse on this than other ICE prestige vehicles which I pointed out

Even though it was over forty k, there is no additional road fund cost (luxury tax), but then again, there is no road fund tax anyway ( changes in 2025 to £180 per annum). No congestion charges 

So what are the other costs to take into account? 

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, Jaymo said:

My insurance is the same

Maintenance costs are the same as other ICE models from this manufacturer but with a greater service interval 
 

Depreciation is no worse on this than other ICE prestige vehicles which I pointed out

Even though it was over forty k, there is no additional road fund cost (luxury tax), but then again, there is no road fund tax anyway ( changes in 2025 to £180 per annum). No congestion charges 

So what are the other costs to take into account? 

 

Indeed. But I fear no one actually reads these posts or takes on board what actual EV owners and drivers are saying from their first hand and real world use of the vehicles 😆

My EV went in for its first 10,000 mile service (which it didn’t need anyway); total cost £300.

No road tax, no Ulez, no congestion charge and less than £70 a month in electricity to run.

Factor in massively tax efficient business leasing (and my throwing the keys back after 3 years) and it’s a total no brainer for me - the car appeals to both my inner child and my inner accountant.

For people looking to keep an EV long term, IIRC the Kia EVs come with a full 7 year or 100,000 mile warranty.

And don’t forget people, we are still early days into EV. What’s coming over the horizon from China (and in particular  battery tech - range and longevity), EVs are going to work for more and more people.

Edit

Was there all this nonsense when hybrids first came in. Were people screaming that a Toyota Prius would fall apart after 40,000 miles or cost the moon to fix? 😆

Whenever I get in an Uber I always ask the driver about the car - miles and problems. 90% have a Prius with well over 100k miles and all tell me they’ve never had a bill beyond routine servicing. The remaining 10% are Ionics with similar stories.

One driver said he had 250k plus miles and was gutted he had to get rid of it because of some cab licensing rule about vehicle age. He said he flogged it to a mini cabber in Manchester who after 2 years put a bundle more miles on it without a bill beyond routine servicing.

This brings me onto my client who has had a Tesla for over 10 years. That car has 180k on the clock and a similar ‘no bills’ story to go with it. The client is loaded and was asked why he hadn’t got a new one - answer - why? It’s peanuts to run, he lives in london (ulez and congestion) and it’s design makes it still look modern.

More real world information for everyone to ignore of course 😆

Edited December 26, 2023 by Mungler

[ph5172]

I was on a course with a guy who had a BMW electric - not sure if the model but it was a small cube type design. 
anyway he said the acceleration was much better than any Porsche or hot hatch he had ever had, he could drive it into the city without worrying about any charges and it suited him as he charged at home every evening but he could go a few trips without worry 

he did say for trips further afield he used the old oil burner but his ev was designed for the trips he did day in day out and that if he really wanted he could do the other oil burner trip but it would take some planning  

Edited December 26, 2023 by ph5172

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, ph5172 said:

I was on a course with a guy who had a BMW electric - not sure if the model but it was a small cube type design. 
anyway he said the acceleration was much better than any Porsche or hot hatch he had ever had, he could drive it into the city without worrying about any charges and it suited him as he charged at home every evening but he could go a few trips without worry 

he did say for trips further afield he used the old oil burner but his ev was designed for the trips he did day in day out and that if he really wanted he could do the other oil burner trip but it would take some planning  

That’s bang on and more so for the South East. If you Google the average car commute journey you get this (and which is in the EV sweet spot really).

 

[Gordon R]

Quote

 it’s all about driving experience and tax as far as I can tell. 

I have run the various views past my eldest, who runs a Mercedes EQC400. His view is that which Mungler posted.