Trump supports Putin to attack NATO.

[GingerCat]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

If it kicks of properly, all put war, the ‘geeks’ and people who likely have autism, sat in GCHQ and MOD facilities around the UK will be able to do more damage to Russia than a soldier with a rifle

Gchq etc are not part of the mod but I get your point and it's not wrong. After the massive cyber attacks on infrastructure, GPS, power , Internet etc which Russia and others are very good at, it will be boots on the ground, ships projecting power at sea and planes in the sky that we will need. None of which we have very much of these days and all of which we won't be able to get after the teenage hackers have had their fun. 

Edited February 11 by GingerCat

[oowee]

25 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Also this, another chance to sling mud. They do seem to jump on any opportunity to try and criticise him. 
 

There’ll be American citizens asking why they’re sending so much money to Europe when they’ve got their own issues on US soil that the money could be spent on. 

Trump's statement is putting lives at risk through the potential miscalculation of intentions. The twonk is a liability to the world. Trump in power and Ping Invades Taiwan because defence is suspect. ? 

The US spending on war in Europe is good for jobs and business in the US. It is largely not money going out of the US. 

There are flakey leaders all over but none have said they would support the invasion of their own allies by their enemies. 

 

[JohnfromUK]

There are a lot of wealthy countries who contribute well below the guidelines;

https://www.forces.net/news/world/nato-which-countries-pay-their-share-defence

 

[ditchman]

3 hours ago, millrace said:

USA just had a record year of arms sales,, war pays/makes money and trump knows this, its simple america first,,scare more arms sales,more sales more jobs trump does what he says for the working man in the us.....money in your pocket...if we wernt so left of centre Britain would do the same!

 

we need to buy aircraft carriers from them ...as it is obvious we cant make our own......our manufacting is totally and utterly useless....both our new aircraft carriers are busted....the makers need to be locked up....it is BLOODY SHAMEFUL

[Gordon R]

Quote

There are flakey leaders all over but none have said they would support the invasion of their own allies by their enemies. 

He isn't suggesting an invasion at all. He is merely making the point that some of NATO' members don't pay what they signed up to, but you already knew that. 🙂

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

NATO' members don't pay

For the whole 'cold war' period NATO (mainly the USA and UK) maintained a large military presence in Europe - mainly Germany - whilst the Germans built a very strong economy (mainly by selling cars, manufactured goods, chemicals etc.) to the USA, rest of Europe, and worldwide.  They spent relatively little on defence, which is (in part) how they were able to be-build a new strong export driven economic base post war.  Belgium, Holland, Denmark and Spain are others with strong economies, but make a relatively small contribution to NATO.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

18 minutes ago, ditchman said:

we need to buy aircraft carriers from them ...as it is obvious we cant make our own......our manufacting is totally and utterly useless....both our new aircraft carriers are busted....the makers need to be locked up....it is BLOODY SHAMEFUL

Well, they were originally planning to have three of the bloody things and number 3 was cancelled to save money.

Now they are both out of action with propeller issues.

You really couldn't make it up.

The wavy navy and her two capital ships will need some big tugs to get the carriers out to the NATO Exercise.

[ditchman]

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well, they were originally planning to have three of the bloody things and number 3 was cancelled to save money.

Now they are both out of action with propeller issues.

You really couldn't make it up.

The wavy navy and her two capital ships will need some big tugs to get the carriers out to the NATO Exercise.

they were proberly worried about "net zero"..and put bigger props on to use less fuel...and the bearings/thrust blocks couldnt take the weight...

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, ditchman said:

they were proberly worried about "net zero"..and put bigger props on to use less fuel...and the bearings/thrust blocks couldnt take the weight...

Gawd knows, BUT it has been a problem since the very first time at sea. SHOCKING.  

[TIGHTCHOKE]

[JohnfromUK]

16 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Gawd knows, BUT it has been a problem since the very first time at sea.

Lost the ignition key? 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Lost the ignition key? 

If only it was that simple.............................

[ditchman]

24 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Lost the ignition key? 

left the handbrake on more like...

[Minky]

2 hours ago, old man said:

Gordon, you missed that useless divot Kwarteng?

 Not ole kamikwasi.   Isn't he the bloke who just loves a decent  crash.

[12gauge82]

I can see trumps point on this one. Why should the USA fund Europes defense, when European countries sat relatively close to Russias borders won't even spend the 2% of gdp they are supposed to. 

Its an unsafe world at the moment and Europe needs to start taking its military seriously.

Owwee- The EU doesn't need an army, European countries just need to fund Nato properly, it's not trump risking European soldiers lives, it's the respective countries underfunding their own nations security.

[ditchman]

8 hours ago, oowee said:

Trump Has said he would support Putin to attack NATO countries if they had not paid their bills. What a complete moron. How anyone could ever see this spanner as an acceptable candidate for president is beyond me. 

Anyone who ever saw Trump as the right side of normal. needs a recalibration of their value system. 

The sooner Europe gets its own army together the safer we will all be. 

the yanks made a mistake sending Tucker carleson to intervies pootin.............should have sent Lorraine kelly...or Allison Hammond

[oowee]

7 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well, they were originally planning to have three of the bloody things and number 3 was cancelled to save money.

Now they are both out of action with propeller issues.

You really couldn't make it up.

The wavy navy and her two capital ships will need some big tugs to get the carriers out to the NATO Exercise.

I can't see this stuff lasting long against swarm drones. 

5 hours ago, ditchman said:

the yanks made a mistake sending Tucker carleson to intervies pootin.............should have sent Lorraine kelly...or Allison Hammond

🤣

[Robden]

18 hours ago, Gordon R said:

This made me smile. What is stopping the EU having one army - not the UK. If it is such a brilliant idea, why isn't it happening?

As for sneering at Biden and Trump - well, the UK has world class leaders - Truss, Sunak, Blair, Brown, Milliband, Corbyn, Johnson, Starmer, plus back up deputies like Rayner, Abbott et al.

Much as some sneer at Trump, the USA fared better under his leadership.

At least Trump tries to do what he says, like build a wall at the borders.  Unlike our lot. "Stop the boats.".....yeah right.

[Newbie to this]

41 minutes ago, Robden said:

At least Trump tries to do what he says, like build a wall at the borders.  Unlike our lot. "Stop the boats.".....yeah right.

Don't worry Labour will stop them, they will grant them all citizenship, and send some ferries to collect them.

[Robden]

11 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Don't worry Labour will stop them, they will grant them all citizenship, and send some ferries to collect them.

We already do don't we?!? We just call them life-boats.

[amateur]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Don't worry Labour will stop them, they will grant them all citizenship, and send some ferries to collect them.

All part of Tony Blair's plan to ensure a constant pool of Labour voters

[Penelope]

20 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

STOP BEING SO DAMNED SENSIBLE............

Indeed, might force a few to put their hands in their pockets.

18 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

As for Trump, what he said (quite bluntly, which is his style)… how can Countries who have signed up to NATO’s agreement to spend a set amount, then choose quite willingly not to spend that money, leave themselves short defence wise, then come crying to NATO and the USA when they need defensive arms / infrastructure. 

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

17 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Also this, another chance to sling mud. They do seem to jump on any opportunity to try and criticise him. 
 

There’ll be American citizens asking why they’re sending so much money to Europe when they’ve got their own issues on US soil that the money could be spent on. 

It's because the far left are very frightened of him.

[Penelope]

14 hours ago, ditchman said:

the yanks made a mistake sending Tucker carleson to intervies pootin.............should have sent Lorraine kelly...or Allison Hammond

Fantastic!!! 👍

[Mungler]

The left hate Trump with a passion.

The current one doing the rounds is that Trump is a Putin asset and he’s going to wreck NATO, choke funding to Ukraine and all on Putin’s orders, all the while over looking that it’s sleepy Joe at the helm and Trump but a mere candidate in the running.

What we are witnessing is Trump tapping into US voter discontent. After Iraq and Afghanistan the average US citizen no longer wants the US to be the world’s police force, expensive and thankless task that is.

The US is a country that can isolate itself and grow strong just trading in a block with Canada and South America. Currently imports to the US make up but 15% of GDP and only 30% of the US population hold a current passport - explain to this country’s population why the US is responsible for something 6000 miles away and on the doorstop of Germany, France and all those other so clever mainland European nations who have run down their armies and mooched on their nato subs.

The yanks are on the hook for managing Israel and Taiwan and they see Russia as an entirely European problem to resolve - not an entirely unreasonable position to adopt when looking at the physical geography.

All nato members (especially Germany and France) have been freeloading. The yanks have worked out that (1) they are nato and if they pull stumps they will be no worse off and (2) the money that Germany and France have otherwise avoided putting into nato has been spent growing their economies over the last couple of decades. Well, that and cheap dirty energy from Putin. And the yanks have had enough.

Throughout all the railing at Trump the liberal elites can’t muster any criticism of the democrats, being the only people in a position to stop Trump. The democrats are fronted by a corpse that can now barely walk or talk and get none of the left establishments or media outlets feel able to jump in with two feet and call out the disaster that is Joe Biden. It’s dystopian emperors clothes stuff. Biden shuffling off will just leave the democrats to put forward a god awful plan B - the usual approach is to roll out another Clinton. A great choice for the US electorate.  
 

edit

And as for a European army, well the farce that is European support for Ukraine ought to open our eyes that there is no European unity when the brown stuff hits the fan; it’s every country for itself. Two things that leapt off the page was (1) germanys Barmy green agenda kept them dependent on cheap energy from the Russian gangster run petrol station meaning at the height of conflict, Germany was paying $1 billion a day to Russia for energy and (2) the continued lack of military support provided by France to Ukraine - I don’t think they make the 3rd page of league table. I always wondered how deep in hock French banks were to Russia and I think we can all join the dots. Anyway, anyone still for Macron’s European army, headed up by the French?

There is no European cohesion when push comes to shove. No individual country can be trusted to put European interests over national interests.

Lastly, have a ponder as to who will fill any European army or any individual country national army? Nationalism has been so badly eroded by immigration and downgrading of national interests and values. Europe is in a sorry mess. Last days of Rome stuff.

 

Edited February 12 by Mungler

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

The left hate Trump with a passion.

The current one doing the rounds is that Trump is a Putin asset and he’s going to wreck NATO, choke funding to Ukraine and all on Putin’s orders, all the while over looking that it’s sleepy Joe at the helm and Trump but a mere candidate in the running.

What we are witnessing is Trump tapping into US voter discontent. After Iraq and Afghanistan the average US citizen no longer wants the US to be the world’s police force, expensive and thankless task that is.

The US is a country that can isolate itself and grow strong just trading in a block with Canada and South America. Currently imports to the US make up but 15% of GDP and only 30% of the US population hold a current passport - explain to this country’s population why the US is responsible for something 6000 miles away and on the doorstop of Germany, France and all those other so clever mainland European nations who have run down their armies and mooched on their nato subs.

The yanks are on the hook for managing Israel and Taiwan and they see Russia as an entirely European problem to resolve - not an entirely unreasonable position to adopt when looking at the physical geography.

All nato members (especially Germany and France) have been freeloading. The yanks have worked out that (1) they are nato and if they pull stumps they will be no worse off and (2) the money that Germany and France have otherwise avoided putting into nato has been spent growing their economies over the last couple of decades. Well, that and cheap dirty energy from Putin. And the yanks have had enough.

Throughout all the railing at Trump the liberal elites can’t muster any criticism of the democrats, being the only people in a position to stop Trump. The democrats are fronted by a corpse that can now barely walk or talk and get none of the left establishments or media outlets feel able to jump in with two feet and call out the disaster that is Joe Biden. It’s dystopian emperors clothes stuff. Biden shuffling off will just leave the democrats to put forward a god awful plan B - the usual approach is to roll out another Clinton. A great choice for the US electorate.  
 

edit

And as for a European army, well the farce that is European support for Ukraine ought to open our eyes that there is no European unity when the brown stuff hits the fan; it’s every country for itself. Two things that leapt off the page was (1) germanys Barmy green agenda kept them dependent on cheap energy from the Russian gangster run petrol station meaning at the height of conflict, Germany was paying $1 billion a day to Russia for energy and (2) the continued lack of military support provided by France to Ukraine - I don’t think they make the 3rd page of league table. I always wondered how deep in hock French banks were to Russia and I think we can all join the dots. Anyway, anyone still for Macron’s European army, headed up by the French?

There is no European cohesion when push comes to shove. No individual country can be trusted to put European interests over national interests.

Lastly, have a ponder as to who will fill any European army or any individual country national army? Nationalism has been so badly eroded by immigration and downgrading of national interests and values. Europe is in a sorry mess. Last days of Rome stuff.

 

Excellent post, Mungler.