THE RESULTS !!!

[JohnfromUK]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I sympathise, our political system is very sick. 

In my constituency, the (incumbent) Tory won on circa 19,700.  Runners up were LibDem on 13,200, Labour on 8,300, Reform on 7,900 and Green on 5000.

A vote for anything other than Tory would simply have helped the Lib Dem.

[Genghis]

1 hour ago, BobbyH said:

What does this mean for UK shooting? In simple terms? Are we shagged now Labour are in?

The real test will be if there’s any kind of notable shooting incident (like Keyham) and what the reaction would be. Effectively, we need to hope that the police do their jobs well. If no such incident does happen then I think we’ll be ok for the time being, as it will be lower down their priority list. If we’re very, very lucky then we’ll be getting close to the next election before they really begin to address firearms restrictions.
 

It was Luke Pollard of Labour who was pushing to ban pump-action shotguns and ban firearms from being stored at home, so I’ll be interested to know what his position is going to be going forward.

[JKD]

1 hour ago, old'un said:

Possibly, but we could always glue ourselves to the road in protest.

As I live near the Dartford crossing 🤔 ...... now where's my climbing gear ? 🙃😁

General question,,,, our new PM keeps saying "it's now time for change", but never actually states what that change includes ? 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Genghis said:

The real test will be if there’s any kind of notable shooting incident (like Keyham) and what the reaction would be.

/\. This.

And it is (I'm afraid) not "if" but "when".

1 minute ago, Genghis said:

Effectively, we need to hope that the police do their jobs well.

I can't see that happening, but we can hope.

[bostonmick]

[12gauge82]

19 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

In my constituency, the (incumbent) Tory won on circa 19,700.  Runners up were LibDem on 13,200, Labour on 8,300, Reform on 7,900 and Green on 5000.

A vote for anything other than Tory would simply have helped the Lib Dem.

Like I said, our voting system is very ill. It prevents people voting for the MP they want and encourages tactical voting. It needs changing. 

[Poor Shot]

19 minutes ago, BobbyH said:

Okay, that’s fair!

So, would clay shooting be targeted aswell do you think?

Apart from the increase in licensing fees I don't really think so (not that I'm an authority in politics and shooting). The Labour vs shooting thing is a class war pure and simple. At it's most basic level they perceive all forms of live quarry shooting as being done by toffs in posh tweeds who need to be punished for being upper class. We all know that apart from the top 0.5% of shooting this isn't the truth and the large percentage of live quarry shooting is done so by ordinary working people.

We also have the vegan and animal rights opposition to worry about of which there are lots more of amongst the Labour members and supporters. Apart from those with low 70's IQs who believe that clay pigeons are an actual bird species then clay target shooters don't need to worry about that aspect. 

I don't think the Labour masses really acknowledge that clay target shooting is a thing limited to the upper classes. There is a greater number of Labour members and supporters who think private firearm ownership should be abolished so we may start to see proposals for the restriction of firearms ownership but sporting shotguns would be the last thing on the list. 

I wrote a long post on here some time ago about the overall effect that the banning of live quarry shooting would have on the sport as a whole (from target to live quarry) and losing live quarry shooting would be disastrous and possibly the end of shooting in all its forms in the UK. In very brief form, the loss of live quarry shooting would result in the UK market becoming unsustainable for nearly every supplier which would drive costs through the roof and out of reach of the everyday clay target shooter and mean availability of everything from guns to ammunition would become a problem. 

17 minutes ago, clangerman said:

basc is a toothless old dog who have done more damage to shooting than labour ever will I would sooner join the antis! 

I'd like to see substantiated evidence of that claim and not just anecdotes. Perhaps in the form of a separate thread to prevent this one veering off course. 

You may not like BASC for the claimed lead shot ban (which BASC did not propose in any form but merely bet on a 'change before we forced to change' strategy which may or may not have worked) that was brought forward by the HSE but they are our best bet. 

We need to remember that BASC aren't anything other than an association of members and they have very little to no legal mechanisms to affect any sort of change. All they can do is lobby and the more members they can claim to represent and the bigger budgets they have to do so then the better off we all will be. Like it or not, BASC are the most recognised of the shooting organisations and are likely the only shooting organisation that will be entertained by anyone in the Labour party when it comes to being a stakeholder in important discussions. Take the work they did around the licensing of gamebirds in Wales for example. Possibly the single biggest threat to shooting in the UK that we have seen in decades and BASC were able to field a huge response from members which near enough blocked up the bureaucratic capacity of NRW to enact a shadow ban via 10's of thousands of responses to the consultation.  

Personally, as a member of a wildfowling club and a game shooting syndicate. BASC have been worth their weight in gold for the help and support they are able to provide. From loans to buy land and secure sporting rights in my wildfowling club to the hand holding they have given the syndicate during a very trying time for us. They have been immensely helpful. 

[marsh man]

I casted my vote for Labour last night with the hope they can sort out the N H S dentist desert in our region before my last tooth finally leave my mouth , which isn't many full moons away 😁 we live in hope.

[oowee]

I have long said PR is the way forward.

We desperately need economic growth and being knee capped by Brexit is not helping. Starmers plan to get a better deal with EU is making the right noises but what chance is there? He has made some pretty strong claims on joining and customs union etc.

Going flat out for growth outside the EU with incentives and tax benefits is likely to make alignment issues worse rather than better.  

Greater fiscal control and reporting through the OBR will make a difference for confidence. 

Training and education reform will take at least three terms. 

All looks good but like any good football manager can he make it happen fast enough? 

[ehb102]

I don't think the anti shooting hate is so much a class war as an urban vs rural thing. Too many people are safely tucked away from all the bodily realities of like. Their **** gets taken away by nice sewers, their rubbish gets taken away, their dead people are dealt with by someone else, and their meat turns up wrapped in plastic. That's a culture shift for sure. Don't know what you do about that, apart from education. No one wants a cultural revolution when people are made to go and be useless in the countryside! 

 

[old man]

11 hours ago, Gordon R said:

oowee - this made me smile. Sadly, Labour still harbours anti-semites and what I would describe as tenth rate MPs such as Rayner, Ashworth, Lammy. Whilst I acknowledge he has made some progress, I still think he isn't in full control, but the unions are.

The public will now get what they voted for.

That seems to be the democratic way?

10 hours ago, shaun4860 said:

The second seat is my area 😢

To be fair Liebour could have put a donkey up and it would have won.

If you ask anyone round here why they vote Liebour they will say because Maggie Thatcher closed the pits 🤦🏻‍♂️

Maybe as good a reason as any? If you've not been there multiple times in succession you can only guess? It's not nice!

[oowee]

14 minutes ago, ehb102 said:

I don't think the anti shooting hate is so much a class war as an urban vs rural thing. Too many people are safely tucked away from all the bodily realities of like. Their **** gets taken away by nice sewers, their rubbish gets taken away, their dead people are dealt with by someone else, and their meat turns up wrapped in plastic. That's a culture shift for sure. Don't know what you do about that, apart from education. No one wants a cultural revolution when people are made to go and be useless in the countryside! 

 

Bang on. 😁

[JohnfromUK]

13 minutes ago, oowee said:

I have long said PR is the way forward.

PR leads to situations like ;

• Israel where a very small group of 'ultra religious' parties hold the balance of power
• Germany - where the Green element of the coalition shut the nuclear generation down (ironically to the benefit of Putin and resulted in burning the damaging lignite coal) - and the German economy/growth has suffered.
• Instability with frequent changes of government like Italy (68 governments in 76 years apparently)

[old man]

3 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

labour will now have to deliver for the people, big difference to being in opposition, and the country is virtually bankrupt.

Time will tell but they may regret winning 😊

Not likely maybe, the real prizes are 5 star life style, expenses and a handshake on exit?

Personally from performances over the years I can't imagine how most people think they care about making improvements for voters?

[12gauge82]

9 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

PR leads to situations like ;

• Israel where a very small group of 'ultra religious' parties hold the balance of power
• Germany - where the Green element of the coalition shut the nuclear generation down (ironically to the benefit of Putin and resulted in burning the damaging lignite coal) - and the German economy/growth has suffered.
• Instability with frequent changes of government like Italy (68 governments in 76 years apparently)

Well is that any worse where our system allows a game of ping pong between completely ineffective government, who promise one thing with no intention of carrying it out and deliver the exact opposite. 

[12gauge82]

In all honesty I'm glad the Conservatives lost. The fact Sunak appeared to be more sorry for his MPs and colleagues, rather the electorate that have been repeatedly lied to by successive Conservative governments shows their priorities lie with their own careers and their chums rather than the country they're supposed to serve. 

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Each to their own but I think the polling proves the point. 

I don’t follow wrt polling proving the point?

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Well is that any worse where our system

The system in Israel which is likely preventing (or at least impeding) peace and prolonging a war with great loss of life is MUCH worse.

[12gauge82]

3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I don’t follow wrt polling proving the point?

Sorry I wasn't clear.

You said you don't agree Conservative ls and Labour are basically the same party. 

I say that's the only reason reform exists, I.e the polling proves otherwise. 

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The system in Israel which is likely preventing (or at least impeding) peace and prolonging a war with great loss of life is MUCH worse.

A bit weak of a link don't you think. What are you implying, if we went to PR we'd end up at war? Bit late for that isn't it, Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine (sort of)! 

[Poor Shot]

 

16 minutes ago, ehb102 said:

I don't think the anti shooting hate is so much a class war as an urban vs rural thing. Too many people are safely tucked away from all the bodily realities of like. Their **** gets taken away by nice sewers, their rubbish gets taken away, their dead people are dealt with by someone else, and their meat turns up wrapped in plastic. That's a culture shift for sure. Don't know what you do about that, apart from education. No one wants a cultural revolution when people are made to go and be useless in the countryside! 

 

Class war/ urban vs rural, it's all roughly the same thing. It's based entirely around ignorance as to how peoples way of life differs depending on where they live. To people who live in the city, the idea that animals need to be controlled is abhorrent and chuck in the fact that it's sometimes done by wealthy Tory voters who dress up in red coats and ride horses and do so for sport is their antithesis. 

Same with the hate for private personal transport. A large percentage of people who live within central London who use solely public transport because it functions well where they live who cannot fathom why anyone would every need a driving license and their own car. 

I live in a fairly 50/50 rural and urban constituency. Due to the industrial past, it's firmly a Labour seat so much so Hitler, Mugabe, Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin could all rise from the dead, don a red rosette and still find themselves with healthy share of the vote here in the valleys. I'm not comparing the politics of these individuals to the politics of the Labour party but merely highlighting the red or dead dominance we have here and that a lot of people would vote for a potted house plant providing it was representing the Labour party. 

Despite near enough all farmland within our constituency consisting of livestock and poultry with little to no other types of agriculture, our Labour MS (and former MP prior to the boundary change) still lobbied aggressively for and was one of the spearheads to the humane cable restraint ban in Wales. They cared not that they had people here who relied on this method of control for their livelihoods. They cared only for how they were perceived by people who have never seen a chicken carcass with it's feathers still on. A steak still attached to the body of the animal. People who's biggest obstacle from enjoying some beef is the cellophane packaging or the queue at the McDonalds drive through. 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

Reform get the third biggest vote share and get 4 MP's and yet the Ed Davey stuntmans party comes fourth and gets 71

Overall votes don't matter though do they, its about winning the seat.

The big surprise is Lib Dem doing well, that's likely down to those MPs doing a good job in their areas,  we had leaflets but nothing more, I know Rishi and Starmer visited local businesses but that's mot going to make any difference on a local level. 

[12gauge82]

The fact the Conservatives lost the most in the areas they gained the most in 2019 is very telling. It says people put their trust in them and gave them their vote after being promised real change.

Yesterdays election shows how those voters see the Conservatives in delivering on those promises. 

[12gauge82]

8 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Overall votes don't matter though do they, its about winning the seat.

The big surprise is Lib Dem doing well, that's likely down to those MPs doing a good job in their areas,  we had leaflets but nothing more, I know Rishi and Starmer visited local businesses but that's mot going to make any difference on a local level. 

I disagree, it shows the start of something huge. 

[JohnfromUK]

11 minutes ago, Mice! said:

The big surprise is Lib Dem doing well, that's likely down to those MPs doing a good job in their areas,  we had leaflets but nothing more

Neighbouring constituency (which I know well as it was where I worked) had a MASSIVE social media 'keep the Tory out' campaign run by LibDem activists (which included a lot of very suspect 'allegations' re hospitality acceptance - all of which seem to have been correctly declared, but the mud stuck) - and they were successful - against most predictions.

[Mungler]

It's very left wing and European to demand a large state apparatus and I remain amazed at the disconnect most people have with government, how government is funded and taxation.

Large state apparatus means expense and low productivity which means high taxation and low delivered value.

We should all crave the smallest state / government possible and a government that sticks to just filling in pot holes, running the schools, providing an NHS for emergencies (not boob jobs, gender transitioning or ironing out drunks and druggies past 11 pm) and making sure the army can do what it's supposed to do. That's it.

The labour plan for a state energy company (for example) is hilarious. You can imagine them round the table; before anything they will create the HR department and the DEI officer role. Then there's the cresh, subsidized canteen, 40 days holiday and 4 day working week. There's no way they can run a competitive business in the energy sector. Ah but of course they don't want to run something competitive, they will top up short fall and loss making with tax payer money.

Strap in, it's going to get interesting.

If I could travel the world for 5 years I would.