Sir Kier Starmer ...... you can't make it up .....because it's true

[Yellow Bear]

9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

with nothing but the essentials claimed on expenses and stamping out gifts altogether. It would foster a more open and honest government with less scope for corruption.

And there is a new breed of pig with wings

[Weihrauch17]

3 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

I think this is what he's alluding to.

I'm sorry I still don't get it on the corpo boxes.  He's contained, his security is happy, thus costing the taxpayer less, the ground and its stewarding team are probably happy as it's one less problem for them to worry about on match day, and it's declared.  It's not corruption, by definition.  For it to be corruption it would be undeclared.

Maybe it's just because I don't give two hoots about football.

But why are we concentrating on this, rather than security passes being given to donors clothing the PM's wife??  That's a new one and surely the real issue?

 

The Royal family watch sporting events from the stands.  Sunak used to watch Southampton in the stands with no issues and wasn't trying to push through legislation the FA doesn't want.  He has a very clear conflict of interest taking freebie boxes.

Edited September 20 by Weihrauch17

[Sussexboy]

20 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Sunak? The son in law of the Billionaire? Personally worth £600,000,000+? 
 

The one who also supposedly filled his own car with petrol that turned out to be a PR stunt? 

He couldn’t afford it… his £166k+ salary works out to around £8k a month (before taking off pension contributions). 
 

Sounds like a lot until you take into account all the things he has to do / attend as a head of state… £8k wouldn’t come anywhere close to covering any of it. 

Why would the PM be paying for official business activities out of his own pocket. When I was working I had to attend myriad meetings and business forums on behalf of the company. Not once did I have to pay for any business related expenses. But I did have to pay for my beer on the way home, and the suit and shoes that I was wearing. Not only that, I was not allowed to accept a box at Twickenham. Not that I am bitter about  it 🤥

[Mungler]

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

There will always be shirkers and they will always find ways to not do the work they are paid to, that is down to company's and managers to tackle.

The other element you haven't touched on is whats good for employees, your entire post seems to be from the perspective of an employer. Even if there were a slight loss of productivity (I'm not sure there is broadly speaking) I'm sure it'd be a huge win for many employees, is that not a valid argument to keep it. 

So the best interpretation of that is we should keep WFH because it suits employees to be less productive working from home and that makes them happier. We should probably have a 3 or 4 day week and pay everyone more. Perhaps a few half dozen extra bank holidays. Maybe free beer Monday too.

And they say there’s a productivity crisis and recession coming.

Well, redundancy gives everyone all that extra lovely time at home 😆

[Dougy]

The company i worked for spent in excess of 30k putting screens up so staff could return to work in a "safe" environment, AFTER C19 !!! staff failed to return to work for nearly 2 years, they then spent another 30k so called updating the whole office lay out. I know little to do with Starmer,  WFH codswollop. 

[old man]

18 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

There will always be shirkers and they will always find ways to not do the work they are paid to, that is down to company's and managers to tackle.

The other element you haven't touched on is whats good for employees, your entire post seems to be from the perspective of an employer. Even if there were a slight loss of productivity (I'm not sure there is broadly speaking) I'm sure it'd be a huge win for many employees, is that not a valid argument to keep it. 

I'd like to see the PM and MPs paid a realistic wage, with nothing but the essentials claimed on expenses and stamping out gifts altogether. It would foster a more open and honest government with less scope for corruption. 

Exactly why it will never be allowed?

Political rule number 2, keep the plebs worried about the next large price rises that threaten? 

 

Edited September 21 by old man

[old man]

1 hour ago, old man said:

 

 

Edited September 21 by old man

[12gauge82]

On 20/09/2024 at 20:37, Mungler said:

So the best interpretation of that is we should keep WFH because it suits employees to be less productive working from home and that makes them happier. We should probably have a 3 or 4 day week and pay everyone more. Perhaps a few half dozen extra bank holidays. Maybe free beer Monday too.

And they say there’s a productivity crisis and recession coming.

Well, redundancy gives everyone all that extra lovely time at home 😆

Not what I said at all. But it's a two way street and it shouldn't simply be about what suits employers. 

The country shouldn't only run on what drives growth, especially when that growth isn't shared with employees. Since the 2008 crash, CEOs are far richer, while employees real world wealth is less. If working from home is just as productive or more and is better for employees, what's not to like? 

[Mungler]

27 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Not what I said at all. But it's a two way street and it shouldn't simply be about what suits employers. 

The country shouldn't only run on what drives growth, especially when that growth isn't shared with employees. Since the 2008 crash, CEOs are far richer, while employees real world wealth is less. If working from home is just as productive or more and is better for employees, what's not to like? 

That’ll be the CEOs who don’t work from home probably. Besides, a single CEO is but on a wage, it’s the shareholders / investors that see the return in profitability. 

Amazon and the banks have started to ask people back into the office. Mind you, I know of lots of banks moving jobs out to India.

As for same or better productivity working from home - I remain totally unconvinced. 

 

[12gauge82]

29 minutes ago, Mungler said:

That’ll be the CEOs who don’t work from home probably. Besides, a single CEO is but on a wage, it’s the shareholders / investors that see the return in profitability. 

Amazon and the banks have started to ask people back into the office. Mind you, I know of lots of banks moving jobs out to India.

As for same or better productivity working from home - I remain totally unconvinced. 

 

 

30 minutes ago, Mungler said:

That’ll be the CEOs who don’t work from home probably. Besides, a single CEO is but on a wage, it’s the shareholders / investors that see the return in profitability. 

Amazon and the banks have started to ask people back into the office. Mind you, I know of lots of banks moving jobs out to India.

As for same or better productivity working from home - I remain totally unconvinced. 

 

I think it comes down to good company leadership. A decent company that's employed the right people, in a role that can be done predominantly from home, that fosters good working relationships with its employees will likely get more out of them. Where as a bad employer, with poor leadership skills and a need to control and micro manage their employees is probably not. 

 

[Mungler]

11 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

 

I think it comes down to good company leadership. A decent company that's employed the right people, in a role that can be done predominantly from home, that fosters good working relationships with its employees will likely get more out of them. Where as a bad employer, with poor leadership skills and a need to control and micro manage their employees is probably not. 

 

That’s absolute dreamy hogwash 😀

[Gordon R]

Do those dedicated people, working from home, work extra hours to reflect the lack of travelling time? 

[shaun4860]

23 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Do those dedicated people, working from home, work extra hours to reflect the lack of travelling time? 

Why would they?

I never got paid for travelling too and from work 🤷🏻‍♂️

9-5 is 9-5 whether wfh or not

[Mungler]

One my mates, his Mrs works for the NHS from home. His words “her journey to work each morning is 4 steps out of bed and down 15 stairs and she’s late for work everyday”.

Ask her about working from home and you get all the standard claptrap about how she works harder and is more productive. Ask anyone else living in the same house and the truth is quite different and what we all deep down know it to be.

The only people I’d trust to work from home are the self employed / business owners and people whose salary directly correlates to their performance each and every month - not some amorphous department annual bonus but actual ‘can only eat what you kill’ monthly remuneration.

.

Edited September 21 by Mungler

[100milesaway]

7 minutes ago, Mungler said:

One my mates, his Mrs works for the NHS from home. His words “her journey to work each morning is 4 steps out of bed and down 15 stairs and she’s late for work everyday”.

Ask her about working from home and you get all the standard claptrap about how she works harder and is more productive. Ask anyone else living in the same house and the truth is quite different and what we all deep down know it to be.

The only people I’d trust to work from home are the self employed / business owners and people whose salary directly correlates to their performance each and every month - not some amorphous department annual bonus but actual ‘can only eat what you kill’ monthly remuneration.

.

My beliefs  entirely. 

From Auntie 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

When will it all end?

[Yellow Bear]

7 hours ago, Mungler said:

One my mates, his Mrs works for the NHS from home. His words “her journey to work each morning is 4 steps out of bed and down 15 stairs and she’s late for work everyday”.

Sadly those in the NHS that can WFH are the least productive anyway.

[old man]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

When will it all end?

Methinks will be a slow and agonising end.

Morally and financially bankrupt?

 

[button]

I think there is a lot if resentment for the ones that can and do wfh, and can not get the fascination with getting people back in the office when there is no need

I purposely avoid going into the office, just because people turn up does not mean they are working, some just need people around them and make them feel needed, thankfully I am not one, and have no desire to discuss every decision I make round the coffee machine ! If you do not trust people to do the job I would say you are employing the wrong ones or do not have effective ways in place to measure performance 

For a business that no longer needs to rent expensive office space and lets staff WFH surely that’s a win for the business

[Gordon R]

I question why Civil Servants who continue to receive the London Weighting allowance work from home, having moved to Cornwall.

[amateur]

3 minutes ago, button said:

......For a business that no longer needs to rent expensive office space and lets staff WFH surely that’s a win for the business

It depends upon the type of business and whether or not the individual's contribution to the business can be effectively measured without close instruction and control.

It's not a one size fits all solution

 

[oldypigeonpopper]

5 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I question why Civil Servants who continue to receive the London Weighting allowance work from home, having moved to Cornwall.

Hello, That is interesting Gordon, 

[old man]

26 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I question why Civil Servants who continue to receive the London Weighting allowance work from home, having moved to Cornwall.

Maybe he waft of stale air from above hints at the benefits to be had?

Edited September 22 by old man

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Worth a read, from the Telegraph;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/22/politicians-who-believe-myth-public-support-tax-rises/

[button]

1 hour ago, amateur said:

It depends upon the type of business and whether or not the individual's contribution to the business can be effectively measured without close instruction and control.

It's not a one size fits all solution

 

Your right, but everyone having to go back to offices is not the right answer either, to me it's all about finding the balance