USA missile permission

[ditchman]

So Biden has agreed to let Ukraine use American long range missiles on targets in Russia........

i know Ukraine is already reaching into Russia with their drones ...but this is somewhat different...i really think it is pokingthe hornets nest....and Putin has his back against the wall on military hardware and the economy and i daresay "rumblings within his own flanks"....

if a limited nuclear response is a result ..i wouldnt be surprised........

this is so foolish............

[Weihrauch17]

11 minutes ago, ditchman said:

So Biden has agreed to let Ukraine use American long range missiles on targets in Russia........

i know Ukraine is already reaching into Russia with their drones ...but this is somewhat different...i really think it is pokingthe hornets nest....and Putin has his back against the wall on military hardware and the economy and i daresay "rumblings within his own flanks"....

if a limited nuclear response is a result ..i wouldnt be surprised........

this is so foolish............

He is trying to give Trump as many problems as he can with this IMHO.  No doubt Herr Starmer will now follow suit.

Edited November 17 by Weihrauch17

[oowee]

If Putin escalates it will be his decision. We have to say no. If not it will be us next. Only pity is its so late. 

Today I watched a Russian attack loosing maybe 2 to 3 hundred men attacking in the back of ural trucks. No armour he cares nothing for anyone. 

All wars come to a crunch. 

13 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

He is trying to give Trump as many problems as he can with this IMHO.  No doubt Herr Starmer will now follow suit.

I do hope Starmer follows. This all comes after Schultz call to Putin so he knew it was coming. We have to push home the point. We should be giving Putin red lines. Starmer is all over this with China. 

[ordnance]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

If Putin escalates it will be his decision. We have to say no. If not it will be us next. Only pity is its so late. 

Today I watched a Russian attack loosing maybe 2 to 3 hundred men attacking in the back of ural trucks. No armour he cares nothing for anyone. 

All wars come to a crunch. 

I do hope Starmer follows. This all comes after Schultz call to Putin so he knew it was coming. We have to push home the point. We should be giving Putin red lines. Starmer is all over this with China. 

Putin escalated by using North Korean troops, now it's pay back.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, ordnance said:

Putin escalated by using North Korean troops, now it's pay back.

And by shooting and beheading prisoners. Bombing civilians and starting the war in the first place. 

[Dave-G]

I'm thinking Trump hinted to Biden in their meeting he'd be doing that to force Putin to negotiate - but Biden stole his thunder.

Edited November 18 by Dave-G

[Rim Fire]

6 hours ago, Dave-G said:

I'm thinking Trump hinted to Biden in their meeting he'd be doing that to force Putin to negotiate - but Biden stole his thunder.

Or Trump led biden up the garden path so he could say it was Biden who told them they could do it 

[Dave-G]

2 hours ago, Rim Fire said:

Or Trump led biden up the garden path so he could say it was Biden who told them they could do it 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, When Putin amassed his Army on the Ukraine Border battle ready and if all Nato and USA allies had stood firm with the Ukraine Government and Citizen I do not think we would have seen the Destruction and Death of what has happened in Ukraine now, Starmer will say nothing to China on supporting Russia, World leaders do not condemn North Korea in deploying troops helping Putins Army, well if they do it is nothing substantial , Iran also supports Putin, Nordic Countries are now advising citizens of surviving War, How has one man , Putin,  become such a threat no Country will stand up against him

Edited November 18 by oldypigeonpopper

[islandgun]

12 hours ago, ditchman said:

So Biden has agreed to let Ukraine use American long range missiles on targets in Russia........

i know Ukraine is already reaching into Russia with their drones ...but this is somewhat different...i really think it is pokingthe hornets nest....and Putin has his back against the wall on military hardware and the economy and i daresay "rumblings within his own flanks"....

if a limited nuclear response is a result ..i wouldnt be surprised........

this is so foolish............

Agreed, Putin will stop at nothing, The more he is backed into a corner the worse will be his response

[old man]

12 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

He is trying to give Trump as many problems as he can with this IMHO.  No doubt Herr Starmer will now follow suit.

Is likely the correct answer?

Politicians just can't stop making things worse?

[Penelope]

12 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

He is trying to give Trump as many problems as he can with this IMHO.  No doubt Herr Starmer will now follow suit.

My take on it.

[Stonepark]

It is fact that for stormshadow(UK)\scalp (France), Taurus (Germany) and Atacams\tomahawk (USA) all require programming by relevant countries military personnel and use real time USA satallite for guidance.

Only currently serving military personnel have the clearance and ability to do so!

Russia has made it clear that any use of USA satallite data to guide missles over Russia or if those missiles are programmed by Western military personnel to fly at targets in Russia, makes those satallite and associated personnel legitimate targets and also a declaration of general war (which it is).

Russia to date has objected to Western missles being used in Ukraine (as it has all Western weapons and personnel) but has stated as long as this is confined to Ukraine a general war will not exist.

Stamer and Biden are about to try to start WWIII to stop Trump from bringing about a peaceful settlement!

[Gordon R]

The timing of Biden's decision says it all. Does he honestly know what he is doing?

[LeadWasp]

11 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

It is fact that for stormshadow(UK)\scalp (France), Taurus (Germany) and Atacams\tomahawk (USA) all require programming by relevant countries military personnel and use real time USA satallite for guidance.

Only currently serving military personnel have the clearance and ability to do so!

Russia has made it clear that any use of USA satallite data to guide missles over Russia or if those missiles are programmed by Western military personnel to fly at targets in Russia, makes those satallite and associated personnel legitimate targets and also a declaration of general war (which it is).

Russia to date has objected to Western missles being used in Ukraine (as it has all Western weapons and personnel) but has stated as long as this is confined to Ukraine a general war will not exist.

Stamer and Biden are about to try to start WWIII to stop Trump from bringing about a peaceful settlement!

Programming is no different to assembling so we crossed that particular Rubicon 2 years ago. 

Putin's logic constructs an argument that N Korea Iran and China are targets too now therefore...N Korean and Iran will probably get off on that idea whereas China is the adult in the axis of evil.

Trump is a bully like Putin so fundamentally a coward. You could see that cowardice in his meeting with Biden (as in so many actual meetings with people he's previously been vile about). A coward's settlement won't ultimately end in peace.

 

[BRYAN3]

Nato is using ukraine as a missile base to attack russia.  That was the plan from 2014.

[oowee]

42 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Russia to date has objected to Western missles being used in Ukraine (as it has all Western weapons and personnel) but has stated as long as this is confined to Ukraine a general war will not exist.

Stamer and Biden are about to try to start WWIII to stop Trump from bringing about a peaceful settlement!

Rubbish. Russia said the use of western missiles on Russia was a red line for escalation. Russia passed laws to declare annexed territory of Ukrain as Russian. Ukraine has been firing missiles into that land. This is no different. The only one starting ww3 is Putin. Putin is attacking civilians deliberately. Putins army is killing and beheading pow's hunting citizens with drones. Putin is killing and bombing people in the UK how much provocation is that? 

14 minutes ago, BRYAN3 said:

Nato is using ukraine as a missile base to attack russia.  That was the plan from 2014.

Absolute garbage. Is N Korea using Russia as a missile base to attack the west? 

The only one attacking anyone is Putin. If Putin stops attacking and withdraws troops the war will end immediately

1 minute ago, oowee said:

 

Edited November 18 by oowee

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

The timing of Biden's decision says it all. Does he honestly know what he is doing?

[countryman]

If Putin decides to take on the Armed world he will be finished, the best scenario would be for Russia to realise that, get rid of Putin and sit round the table to end it.

Edited November 18 by countryman

[Stonepark]

37 minutes ago, oowee said:

Rubbish. Russia said the use of western missiles on Russia was a red line for escalation. Russia passed laws to declare annexed territory of Ukrain as Russian. Ukraine has been firing missiles into that land. This is no different. The only one starting ww3 is Putin. Putin is attacking civilians deliberately. Putins army is killing and beheading pow's hunting citizens with drones. Putin is killing and bombing people in the UK how much provocation is that?

 

You can repeat propaganda all you want. In this case, the Political class in Ukraine in power you are supporting are actual NAZI's and clearly projecting what they are doing and MSM and those following it are lapping it up.

Ukraine is conscripting civilians and killing them on purpose, Ukraine is disappearing people, Ukraine is treating POW's badly, Ukraine is attacking civilian targets (cause their weapons are not accurate), Ukraine are trying to escalate from a local war to WWIII.

Russia made it clear to British, German, French and American ambassadors earlier this year.. if you strike us in Russia, we will strike back, no matter what territory the missle is launched from.

At that point the foreign departments of each respective country all had a collective heart attack and every sane politician backed away from the idea.

Biden is clearly trying to poison USA\Russia relations before Trump pulls the plug on Ukraine.

If the illegitimate Ukrainian government steps down and the even more illegitimate Ukrainian President steps down and elections declared, the war would stop tomorrow.

[ditchman]

Perhaps we should have nuked bloody France when we found out they were still supplying Exocets to the damn Argies in the early stages of the Falklands

[Stonepark]

4 minutes ago, countryman said:

If Putin decides to take on the Armed world he will be finished, the best scenario would be for Russia to realise that, get rid of Putin and sit round the table to end it.

Complete pipe dreams, virtually the whole of the Russian people support Putin, in fact a majority of them would support Putin going much further than he has. The MSM treat Putin as if he is the worst person in the world, in truth he is a moderate, a check against those who would have gone full war and he represents the Duma and he needs it's approval to do what he is doing, just like Stammer needs consent of parliament.

It is the West who are overextended and will back down or take us to WWIII and then lose. West is out of money, out of equipment and out of personnel.

I.e. UK has 1 active battalion of tanks (circa 44) which sit on training ground and 3 battalions of mechanised troops rotate through the training ground using the same tanks. The others (another approximately 44) are mothballed and canabalised for parts, what are we going to fight with? We gave away all our self propelled artillery, we gave away our stormshadows, we gave away our ammo stockpiles, armoured vehicle stock piles, thankfully we have only given them 2 of our 4 mine sweepers, etc etc

Russia alone produces as many weapons per annum as NATO combined. Add in Chinese, North Koreans and Iranians and NATO is out numbered in production and man power.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, ditchman said:

Perhaps we should have nuked bloody France when we found out they were still supplying Exocets to the damn Argies in the early stages of the Falklands

Exocets are fire and forget, much like a bullet... The issue is all these long range missiles require supplying third parties to programme and control them to target, so Ukrainians can't just be given them and left to it.

[oldypigeonpopper]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Rubbish. Russia said the use of western missiles on Russia was a red line for escalation. Russia passed laws to declare annexed territory of Ukrain as Russian. Ukraine has been firing missiles into that land. This is no different. The only one starting ww3 is Putin. Putin is attacking civilians deliberately. Putins army is killing and beheading pow's hunting citizens with drones. Putin is killing and bombing people in the UK how much provocation is that? 

Absolute garbage. Is N Korea using Russia as a missile base to attack the west? 

The only one attacking anyone is Putin. If Putin stops attacking and withdraws troops the war will end immediately

Hello, I do hope Trump will sort out Putin before he destroys so much more of Ukraine and murdered 1000s of innocent citizens

[countryman]

With the war coming to Russia it’s self Putin may not be so popular.

[oowee]

56 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

 

You can repeat propaganda all you want. In this case, the Political class in Ukraine in power you are supporting are actual NAZI's and clearly projecting what they are doing and MSM and those following it are lapping it up.

Ukraine is conscripting civilians and killing them on purpose, Ukraine is disappearing people, Ukraine is treating POW's badly, Ukraine is attacking civilian targets (cause their weapons are not accurate), Ukraine are trying to escalate from a local war to WWIII.

Russia made it clear to British, German, French and American ambassadors earlier this year.. if you strike us in Russia, we will strike back, no matter what territory the missle is launched from.

At that point the foreign departments of each respective country all had a collective heart attack and every sane politician backed away from the idea.

Biden is clearly trying to poison USA\Russia relations before Trump pulls the plug on Ukraine.

If the illegitimate Ukrainian government steps down and the even more illegitimate Ukrainian President steps down and elections declared, the war would stop tomorrow.

Where do you get this clap trap from??? 🤣

Nazi's don't make me laugh. Have you been to Ukraine? I have. I have also hosted refugees here that have been bombed out of their houses. Refugees that lived in the occupied territory that used to have Russian as their native language. They so hate the destruction and murder of their neighbours and relatives that they will not speak Russian again. Russia is a terrorists state end off. 

Relations between Putin and the west are already poisoned. In the case of the UK literally poisoned. 

Russia can end this any time it wants. Just withdraw. Putin does that and knows he is finished.