rbrowning2 Posted December 14 Author Report Share Posted December 14 4 minutes ago, Scully said: I would suggest the shooting of ducks with lead - on driven pheasant shoots anyhow - has been going on for years ( In England at least ) as the legislation defies all logic given its intent, which was to stop ducks from ingesting spent lead shot. How that was supposed to work on a driven pheasant shoot is anybody’s guess. There is an agenda at work here which has very little to do with minimising the risk to flora/fauna and human health. If the general public won’t eat anything shot with lead, I’m not too sure how much keener they will be to eat it shot with non-toxic shot. Will sales rocket as a result? If game is in such high demand, then I’m pretty sure someone would have started farming it by now, that way it wouldn’t contain shot of any kind. 🤷♂️ Exactly clay shooting is paying the price to make commercial game shooting tenable. Some will say its are own fault by not enthusiastically embracing the five year voluntary transition, others will say it is the five year voluntary transition idea that has helped the HSE reach the conclusion that the use of all lead shot is bad, even that at clay ground venues. Indeed agenda at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Scully said: I would suggest the shooting of ducks with lead - on driven pheasant shoots anyhow - has been going on for years ( In England at least ) as the legislation defies all logic given its intent, which was to stop ducks from ingesting spent lead shot. How that was supposed to work on a driven pheasant shoot is anybody’s guess. There is an agenda at work here which has very little to do with minimising the risk to flora/fauna and human health. If the general public won’t eat anything shot with lead, I’m not too sure how much keener they will be to eat it shot with non-toxic shot. Will sales rocket as a result? If game is in such high demand, then I’m pretty sure someone would have started farming it by now, that way it wouldn’t contain shot of any kind. 🤷♂️ I wouldn't think the consumption of Game will change at all. I don't knowingly eat Pellets of any type and I am sure others don't either so it doesn't matter what they are shot with. I breast Pheasants and Pigeons and remove any pellets but it is very rare I find any. Edited December 14 by Weihrauch17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted December 14 Author Report Share Posted December 14 (edited) i am sure champagne corks have been popping within certain organisations, like WJ and some we must not mention. But probably not at the CPSA. Edited December 14 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 2 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: i am sure champagne corks have been popping within certain organisations, like WJ and some we must not mention. Careful you will get the thread shut down 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 We can juggle this about from dawn to dusk seven days a week and we will still end up with very little logic with game , wildfowl and clay shooting we know it isn't going to be, If a ban come along it will be a matter of when but however long it will be , the end result will be the same , it's a bit like ole age , we can prolong it but we cannot prevent it , it will one day be R I P lead shot . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted December 14 Author Report Share Posted December 14 The future for clay shooting 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 20 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: i am sure champagne corks have been popping within certain organisations, like WJ and some we must not mention. But probably not at the CPSA. I have been looking at Steel on JC, I have never bought any but at face value it is twice the price of Lead. Clay Shooting is very expensive as it is, this could be the straw that breaks the Camels back and the ban is a total farce. I have shot up at Kelbrook many times which has been going for decades and there is plenty of Wildlife up there and water birds on the lake. Not sure why Shooting Orgs back this agenda it may very well put them out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 8 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: Not sure why Shooting Orgs back this agenda it may very well put them out of business. BASC were the leading mover and, apparently, led all the other associations EXCEPT FOR THE CPSA, to sign their letter calling for a lead ban. I left BASC over the Ali fiasco and I am glad that I did. Note that CPSA covers insurance for all shooting sports including stalking, game shooting, pigeon shooting with both rifles and shotguns. CPSA also gives cover for refusal to renew or the revocation of an SGC. Plus they are cheaper. I will not support with my money BASC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 (edited) 7 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: BASC were the leading mover and, apparently, led all the other associations EXCEPT FOR THE CPSA, to sign their letter calling for a lead ban. I left BASC over the Ali fiasco and I am glad that I did. Note that CPSA covers insurance for all shooting sports including stalking, game shooting, pigeon shooting with both rifles and shotguns. CPSA also gives cover for refusal to renew or the revocation of an SGC. Plus they are cheaper. I will not support with my money BASC. I left when John Swift tried to sell us down the river many years ago but now that task has been completed so no doubt he will be popping a cork tonight as well. Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind. Edited December 14 by Weihrauch17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 First they came for lead shot and 'large' caliber bullets... and no one spoke out for them.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear68 Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 (edited) @enfieldsparesI know BASC wanted a voluntary move away from lead shot over 5 years, but have they also called for a ban on lead? Sorry, its probably a moot point anyway, as the this will be legislated by our virtue signalling politicians in any event. Edited December 14 by Bear68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 1 hour ago, Scully said: I would suggest the shooting of ducks with lead - on driven pheasant shoots anyhow - has been going on for years ( In England at least ) as the legislation defies all logic given its intent, which was to stop ducks from ingesting spent lead shot. How that was supposed to work on a driven pheasant shoot is anybody’s guess. There is an agenda at work here which has very little to do with minimising the risk to flora/fauna and human health. If the general public won’t eat anything shot with lead, I’m not too sure how much keener they will be to eat it shot with non-toxic shot. Will sales rocket as a result? If game is in such high demand, then I’m pretty sure someone would have started farming it by now, that way it wouldn’t contain shot of any kind. 🤷♂️ I completely agree ,but now we can have non compliance thrown at us ,game dealer sales was the only way they could gauge compliance ,i think we all agree its a nonsense but ammunition against us has been gifted . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 13 minutes ago, holloway said: I completely agree ,but now we can have non compliance thrown at us ,game dealer sales was the only way they could gauge compliance ,i think we all agree its a nonsense but ammunition against us has been gifted . Can’t argue with any of that. I think the non-compliance issue has been with us from day one, and always been available to our enemies to use against us, but they haven’t. 🤷♂️ Weirdly however, the likes of WJ etc etc have in recent years ( since BASC proclaimed there was a voluntary phase out of lead shot ) been buying game to see what it was shot with and making a fuss when discovering it contains lead. Of course it contains lead, why wouldn’t it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 BASC with their nonsense of the voluntary five year end to lead thought they could pay Danegeld. Amateur hour from start to finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyH Posted December 14 Report Share Posted December 14 Lead shot ban showing its ugly head again!! Just my 2p’s worth….There are steel cartridges (For clays) on JC for as little as £280ish a thou. That’s cheaper than I thought, I will still be shooting .410 as I load my own steel carts. Yes it’s inconvenient and everyone is hating it, but for me, as I only shoot clays, it’s not that bad, as long as Clay grounds allow steel shot! Yes I won’t be able to use my favourite carts, and I’ll need to work with other ones, but so be it. And we have potentially 5years to transition….. Who says we start a petition!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 (edited) Clay grounds could keep going with steel but what about trap disciplines, where tightly choked guns are used. Grounds that have have a mixture of trap, sporting and skeet, may take the view if trap was no longer available would it still be economically viable. The owners of shooting grounds are sitting on a fortune in many cases. We lost Mid Wales shooting centre and it became a five-star holiday park. I realise that was nothing to do with lead. It always appeared to be a busy shooting ground such a shame when it closed. Edited December 15 by redial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 14 hours ago, BobbyH said: Lead shot ban showing its ugly head again!! Just my 2p’s worth….There are steel cartridges (For clays) on JC for as little as £280ish a thou. That’s cheaper than I thought, I will still be shooting .410 as I load my own steel carts. Yes it’s inconvenient and everyone is hating it, but for me, as I only shoot clays, it’s not that bad, as long as Clay grounds allow steel shot! Yes I won’t be able to use my favourite carts, and I’ll need to work with other ones, but so be it. And we have potentially 5years to transition….. Who says we start a petition!? will it do any good, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 The lead shot ban on shooting wildfowl have been in force in England for a good number of years now and everyone , should know that you cannot shoot wildfowl anywhere , either salt marshes , flight ponds and above all on game shoots ,and yet we don't go around with our eyes shut we know , we will say the ODD duck that go over the guns and that will be shot or shot at with lead , with the odd duck that can be taken home and never reach the game dealers , but on the other there must be times where the shoot captain or whoever is in charge presume the duck that are hanging up have been shot with non toxic shot and are ok to pass on to the dealer , I would had thought that dealers must process a good number of wildfowl that have been shot with lead and yet I have never seen where any of them have been brought to court , so the guilty person would be the one who shot the duck in the first place , but would the dealer who processed the duck be just as guilty in buying the duck knowing it have been shot with lead ? MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 21 hours ago, BobbyH said: Just my 2p’s worth….There are steel cartridges (For clays) on JC for as little as £280ish a thou. That’s cheaper than I thought, I will still be shooting .410 as I load my own steel carts. Yes it’s inconvenient and everyone is hating it, but for me, as I only shoot clays, it’s not that bad, as long as Clay grounds allow steel shot! Yes I won’t be able to use my favourite carts, and I’ll need to work with other ones, but so be it. And we have potentially 5years to transition….. Are there, I can't find anything below £389 a thousand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_ Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 The gamebore super steel in 21g is 271/thou. Then there's marginally pricier white gold pro steel at 288/thou in 24g guise. Not horrendous yet still sub optimal. One would assume with the stocks that cartridges manufacturers/stockists have there will be a significant delay if anything set in stone. 35 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Are there, I can't find anything below £389 a thousand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyH Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 59 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Are there, I can't find anything below £389 a thousand. The Gamebore white gold pro steel is from £288 per thousand and Gamebore super steel is from £271 per thousand. So there is clay carts out there. I do think that there should be some testing done in the clay world with steel cartridges, in different disciplines to see how they fare up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 8 minutes ago, BobbyH said: I do think that there should be some testing done in the clay world with steel cartridges, in different disciplines to see how they fare up! They did it at my local clay ground using 21 gram steel and found them disappointing. And these are AA shots on CPSA ratings not folk who turn in average scores but folk who turn in 96% and above scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 Manufacturers are now going to have to get the bio-degradable wad issue resolved toot sweet, because once lead has gone plastic wads will be the next bone of contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 So just thinking out loud here cant shoot lead at clays or live quarry it would be illegal (if it goes through parliament) will the proof laws have to change? as it stands at the moment by law everything is proofed with a lead load (even steel proof) however if things change as I see it by law they will be testing with something that we can’t use in the gun just curious here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted December 15 Report Share Posted December 15 What the proof load consists of is irrelevant. ‘Nitro proof’ is good for normal pressure steel, HP steel is good for HP Steel. And the ban doesn’t have to go through parliament, the HSE can ban anything it wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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