Bloke Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I just dont get this fascination with turning our sporting firearms into weapons. I wonder since the proposed change to the law was announced how many similar threads there are on cricketing and golfing forums debating the legal nuances of using the tools of their sport such as a cricket bat or 9 iron on intruders. Not many I would wager, so I do have to wonder how much this really has to do with acts of self defence as a last resort as opposed to how much it has to do with imagining an excuse to leap about your house in your pants at 3am with your tricked out Mossberg like Charles Bronson in Death Wish. For me it is a given that if my wife or children were in danger I would use the kitchen sink to defend them if it was the nearest thing to hand, which (unless a VERY contrived series of events had taken place) probably wouldnt mean a gun. succinct and to the point, totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 The whole point though is that if there is a genuine need to use force for self defence, we have the right to use whatever is to hand, including a gun. The problem arises when the police then see that as a criminal act, rather than an act of self defence. I'm sure that they tend to have a much more reasoned attitude when people use a golf club, a cricket bat or a tennis racquet as a weapon. Well said, Its frustraing to think that as a sportsman if i used my sporting tools for defense the public and police would not like it probably, But if a different sportman used his (Cricketer, Golfer) I'm sure most people would be fine with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I'm sure that they tend to have a much more reasoned attitude when people use a golf club, a cricket bat or a tennis racquet as a weapon. Don't agree. The test is whether you were actually justified in using anything as a weapon. Not sure what use a tennis racquet would be in these circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Not sure what use a tennis racquet would be in these circumstances. Justice would be served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikaveli Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Justice would be served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Well said, Its frustraing to think that as a sportsman if i used my sporting tools for defense the public and police would not like it probably, But if a different sportman used his (Cricketer, Golfer) I'm sure most people would be fine with that. for crying out loud we are talking guns that have a legal requirement to be kept locked up not sporting gear you can leave lying round the house. Public opinion however is actually quite pro people shooting burglars however you have to have a very specific situation where you don't get sent down for it . Thats also assuming whoever you shoot is actually a burglar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 The whole point though is that if there is a genuine need to use force for self defence, we have the right to use whatever is to hand, including a gun. The problem arises when the police then see that as a criminal act, rather than an act of self defence. I agree, and genuinely hope that any change to the law affords protection those who are forced to defend themselves, whether they happen to have a gun in their hand or a fireplace poker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 does that include if you catch said scroat with your poker zapp and jam it up his rear passage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackinbox99 Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Justice would be served. Brilliant!!!!!! lol!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I agree, and genuinely hope that any change to the law affords protection those who are forced to defend themselves, whether they happen to have a gun in their hand or a fireplace poker. I'm not sure that any change to the law is actually needed, or even that it is proposed. The way I read Chris Grayling's speech, he was just dropping a very broad hint to the police and the CPS, pointing out that people already have the legal right to use necessary force to protect themselves, other people and their property, when needs must. The only difference that I picked up was that he expressed the view that police should treat the householder in this situation as the victim, not the criminal, unless the amount of force used was "Wholly disproportionate" - giving an example of stabbing a burglar who was already unconcious. This is my view is a very necessary and long-overdue clarification. All too often, the problem isn't what the law considers to be right or wrong when it comes to self defence, but what the police consider to be right or wrong - of course, their job is just to investigate suspected crimes and to pass their findings to the CPS, but some of them seem to think that they are judge and jury too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 If they got the keys to your gun cabinet they would have a shotgun wouldn't they? I remember the advice from a police officer round this way a while ago, fire one cartridge at the intruders, then put a second one in the ceiling to show you warned them... Yes and the same officer would be denying saying anything as he dragged you down to the station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Justice would be served. that was ace! they should make cartridges that have a net inside that ensnares the burglar,rendering him useless and all parcel wrapped ready for the cops to take away! Edited October 30, 2012 by winnie&bezza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossover Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I wouldn't use my guns, the police would take them away and it would be a real struggle to get them back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I wouldn't use my guns, the police would take them away and it would be a real struggle to get them back. I know what you are saying. But your guns wouldn't be much use to you if you were dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 i wouldn't be able to get to them in time, it would be a hard task convincing the police otherwise, the ash walking stick on the other hand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Don't agree. The test is whether you were actually justified in using anything as a weapon. Not sure what use a tennis racquet would be in these circumstances. You are right in that it comes down to whether you are justified in using/doing anything, however it is fair to say that the police view it very differently when firearms are involved, even when the fact it's a firearm is irrelevant. I wouldn't use my guns, the police would take them away and it would be a real struggle to get them back. And this is one of the main problems with the current system. In certain circumstances you could be perfectly entitled to use your guns for self defense, and therefore still entitled to keep them afterwards, but you know how the police often handle such situations, and despite the law being on your side you can get a huge amount of hassle because of it. It's just how the situation is handled that causes problems. Though of course, if your were in a situation where your guns were the only real option to defend yourself/your family, you'd find yourself dealing with the situation in whatever way you felt was best at that moment, in a true emergency the legal side of things isn't generally the first thing on your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisheruk Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 succinct and to the point, totally agree. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fib new Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I don't live in the UK anymore, but I think this is the most stupid topic on pw I've ever seen... Your fac-officer is probably also reading this, as are the undesirable characters who cause these troubles... What you do or won't do when people come in your house uninvited should be kept for you and these people alone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16jus Posted October 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I don't live in the UK anymore, but I think this is the most stupid topic on pw I've ever seen... Your fac-officer is probably also reading this, as are the undesirable characters who cause these troubles... What you do or won't do when people come in your house uninvited should be kept for you and these people alone... I dont understand how this is a stupid topic, Im simply saying to all those who say theill defend by shooting burglers, maby its better to just fire a couple of blanks off as that will deter a large percentage of burglers and also not even a possible illegal action. Obvously for the very small percentage of burglers who dont get put off by it then you will have to reconsider your actions very quickly. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I don't see it as stupid to post views on this topic, even if they are actually read by someone who could cause problems, the fact that people post under forum names rather than real names does muddy the waters. Statements made by people on this (and other) forums clearly show that a lot of people don't even seem to understand that they have the right to defend themselves if they are in real danger (or if they truly believe themselves to be in real danger) and don't seem to understand that it really doesn't matter, in law, which tools they happen to use in that situation. A gun is just one of any number of tools that might happen to be available to them at the time, and despite the common police attitude towards people who defend themselves using a gun, a gun is no different in this situation to anything else. The real problem, as I see it, is that a lot of people have absolutely no understanding of the law, their legal responsibilities and their legal rights. It's strange though that so many people are absolutely sure of what they would or wouldn't do. In reality, most people either just freeze and do nothing, or over-react and do more than they need to do or are justified in doing. It takes a very cool head to make the right decision in an instant, and to do what absolutely needs to be done both instantly and without hesitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 As i posted before on a similar topic, i heard noises once during the night. Furtive footsteps in the dark... I always had thought i would get a gun out, or a knife, or a baseball bat, but in the end, i just crept down in the dark, fists ready, with the element of surprise. Turned out the dog had got out of the utility and was looking round the kitchen for food, but my decision still surprised me. Truth was i didnt want anyone to take a weapon from me. However, if i heard windows breaking, and multiple people entering, i am reaonably sure that then i would attempt to get to a decent weapon if my stepson was in the house. If not, i think I would go out the bedroom window with the wife and ring the police. A tv isnt worth a life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Your all a bunch of tarts, this is what the local GIRLS do round my way! http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2565731/Teen-girl-tackles-bungling-burglar.html :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHE Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Your all a bunch of tarts, this is what the local GIRLS do round my way! http://www.thesun.co...ng-burglar.html :lol: And she could easily have got herself hurt or worse.Surely the right thing to do in that situation is nothing at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willks84 Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Am I the only one here old enough to remember the sting of a charge of rocksalt from a game keeper's shotgun. not deadly but certainly discouraging :hmm: :D :lol: hahaha I love it! Brings back memory's of dragging my leg over the field hurts like hell! But defiantly didn't go back! Fully mod 410 + 3" mag full of rock salt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Ring the Police and tell them you THINK the intruder has a Firearm! Instead of baseball bats and machette's etc, Buy a 5 or 6 D cell heavy metal torch. They can argue pre meditation, if you carry a bat or knives under the bed. However if you were to go to.see what the noise is with a TORCH in the dark! Well thats different AND it's all you had to hand. The weight of a Torch with 6 D cell batteries can cause a lot of damage. I am lucky. I have a secure room upstairs so I get my Son and myself in close the door and were safe! If your in a high risk area then extra security would be an idea. A fire door at the bottom of the stairs or at the top! Convert a large cupboard into a panic room if you can. Your family are more important than the electrical goods! I am quite sure some extra security could benefit most houses! The security does not have to be seen, so will not have a detrimental effect on the image of your home. Laminated glass causes delays to a prospective burglar! It's also ideal where kids are involved incase they fall against an upstairs window! Fitting fire doors and star locks on the IN side of those doors. Can save lives in a fire and again delay burglars! Your Front and Rear doors! Reinforce the frames or there are companies that sell complete steel security frames and doors, that look like a standard modern door for around £650. Fit a good interior siren downstairs, there are some so loud it puts burglars off as its painful for their ears. Then of course there is the Obvious! Don't leave Laptops, Computers, Handbags, Car Keys, Money etc in plain sight! Close your blinds when watching TV or going out! At night, you could leave a light on a timer, in a downstairs room! Security lighting in the gardens! Even those little 150w jobbies are good! You COULD get Creative and record someone walking of broken glass etc and a Police radio bursting into life and play it through a home cinema system? May make them panic and leg it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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