stubby Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 so I had my renewal visit for my shotgun cert, firearms one is separate and has another year to run, at the visit the officer pointed out that they had flagged up my stepson, as around a year earlier he had been arrested for shoplifting, aged 14yrs, but goes to a special school as his learning age is around 6-8yrs, and therefore he is easily led by others, which you could see quite clearly from the in store cctv when they arrested him, the police agreed that although he was caught holding the bag, he was not the one with the intention to steal, anyhow he got off with a few visits to a daily youth rehabilitation centre. so my new cert arrives today, along with a warning letter, that any future trouble from my step son and they may remove both my tickets now, do I leave as is for now, and argue it out if it ever happens, or protest now, as in my eyes, the guns are still locked away with only me having access, the FAO has rigorously checked that the cabinet is fixed to the wall, so he has no more access to them that a burglar would, if anything even less as he knows I'd cut his hands off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhawk Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 I've had a similar thing.Just keep the letter they sent. write a letter to the licensing manager explaining what the situation was and keep a copy of it. and carry on shooting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 i`d be tempted to write a strong letter, but i`d be more inclined to let BASC jump on this. the actions of someone else should not have an effect on your rights. afterall what would be the point of punishing someone else for another persons actions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 my brother had a similar thing a few years ago when his fao asked if he was related to a person of the same surname and if he lived with my brother.he answered no he was not related and obviously the other person did not live at his address.the reply was well that's good otherwise you would not have got your certificates.it seems that the character of other people living at the same home can and does affect you.atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted August 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 i`d be tempted to write a strong letter, but i`d be more inclined to let BASC jump on this. the actions of someone else should not have an effect on your rights. afterall what would be the point of punishing someone else for another persons actions? done, just sent an e mail, see what reply I get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 I agree with Cookoff - how should a person living in the same house affect your ability or right to hold shotguns/rifles? They (the police) have confirmed he wasnt truly responsible and you will be keeping your guns carefully locked away and the keys undetectable why should this affect your right to own, keep and use guns? I would suggest cntact your shooting organisation for advice, given you may have legal cover as part of membership. It may be worth loooking at your legal cover under your household insurance and contact a specialist firearms solicitor to obtain advice. I'd be tempted to write to them and ask why but better perhaps to have a wiser man than I am advise you on the detail. The police cannot be a law unto themselves and unless its in the HO guidance their apparent decision may be open to question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 I agree with Cookoff - how should a person living in the same house affect your ability or right to hold shotguns/rifles? They (the police) have confirmed he wasnt truly responsible and you will be keeping your guns carefully locked away and the keys undetectable why should this affect your right to own, keep and use guns? I would suggest cntact your shooting organisation for advice, given you may have legal cover as part of membership. It may be worth loooking at your legal cover under your household insurance and contact a specialist firearms solicitor to obtain advice. I'd be tempted to write to them and ask why but better perhaps to have a wiser man than I am advise you on the detail. The police cannot be a law unto themselves and unless its in the HO guidance their apparent decision may be open to question. The HO Guidance is just that, Guidance, it has no direct force of law. It is the job of the Firearms department to Risk Assess, I make no specific references here, but if a bad un is in a house with guns, then they will have the opportunity to seek out the key storage areas, or let their mates in with a grinder, whatever, the police are being cautious. Cutting off someones hands (as mentioned in this thread) is all very well but a bit late if they have already accessed the guns! .....and please do not think I am supporting the Police here, they do come up with plenty of tripe at times, just putting a view! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docholiday Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Have to agree with Dekkers Police in my mind are doing the correct thing just my view on information supplied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubby Posted August 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 all seems fine, the response from my club insurance has been to carry on shooting and forget about it, I'll still post up a reply, if I get one back from plod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 its not fair that you could lose your guns,over some one eles.the police do try it on,take it up with basc.if a member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Checking out others in the house before granting or renewing has been std practice for years. Even without keys they often have the time to access the firearms by foul means. I think on this one you just have to live with it. Show the stepson the letter, many of us have walked the wrong path its best he gets to know the far reaching consequences not only effect his future but also those of others. I used to know a guy who was a good competitive clay shot who lost his ticket for similar reasons, he finally got it back by sharing storage with another shooter (not ideal but better than no shooting) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floating Chamber Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Surely, by accepting this letter, you have ACCEPTED A CAUTION, and we are advised not to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Surely, by accepting this letter, you have ACCEPTED A CAUTION, and we are advised not to do this. No he hasn't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STOTTO Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 It would seem to me that the simple message from the police, and quite honestly I cannot fault their thinking even though you yourself are not at fault in any way is this, if things escalate regarding your stepson’s behaviour you either keep him or your guns at another address if you wish to retain your certificate. I know what my choice would be in your situation and I would put it to him directly it might just have the chosen effect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danoi99 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 I know a bloke who's Dad was put in prison for molesting under age girls. Should his SGC be under review for this? Cuz that's a bit worse than shoplifting. .....isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) I know a bloke who's Dad was put in prison for molesting under age girls. Should his SGC be under review for this? Cuz that's a bit worse than shoplifting. .....isn't it? No way!? Hey, this isn't the same guy who bodged a coup de grâce on his dog with a SG and lost his ticket for boozing behind the wheel is it?! Edited August 19, 2014 by MartynGT4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED BEARD Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 I know a bloke who's Dad was put in prison for molesting under age girls. Should his SGC be under review for this? Cuz that's a bit worse than shoplifting. .....isn't it? Only if the offender lives with him.............and I doubt he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 I was warned if I get back with my ex partner I would loose my fac . I asked why and should couldn't answer even tho she has custody of my kids . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Surely, by accepting this letter, you have ACCEPTED A CAUTION, and we are advised not to do this. Oh come on, this has absolutely nothing in comparison to a caution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 My shooting buddy had been a bad lad in his youth but had turned his life around and had his SGC. Initially, because he was a bit nervous about having guns in his house with his kids, he was granted it with an OK to fit his cabinet in my house. As it turned out, he did decide to keep it at his house, with the OK of our FEO. I was his foreman and we worked together for a few years before we were made redundant. He did settle into a new job but, unfortunately, he 'fell off the wagon'. Of his own volition he sold his guns and surrendered his SGC. I then got a phone call from our FEO asking if I was still associating with this chap. I assurred him that I wasn't. He wanted to make sure that he didn't have access to my guns as well as ones he sold. It was made clear that if I did continue to associate with my buddy then I would lose my SGC/FAC too. As it happens that suited me because it was the reason I needed to have nothing more to do with him because he's a complete swear filter when he's drinking. I have to look at things from the point of view of my FEO too because I'm guessing that he would not feel good if there was a perceived risk and he didn't even note it. (P.S. For those who think I'm not being a good mate by not supporting him in his time of hardship. I've been sober in AA for 28yrs and I helped him to get sober in the first place. He knows that I would help him again, however, he has decided that he's not really an alcoholic and booze doesn't cause him any problems so there's nothing I can do.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 I was waiting AGES for my cert to come back from a change of a address when we moved house. (Guns were still located in my parents house in my cabinet there as It's safer and a very secure property in a low crime area and away from my kids etc...). I then phoned the firearms dept and managed to talk to a FEO who looked in the tray and found my cert all done but with a post it on it saying to follow up and he put me on hold for ages and come back on and started quizzing me. Luckily the chap knows my father from the village and has met me a few times so was ok with me but he told me plainly that they had to investigate me as the house I moved into had a criminal at it last who had been arrested for drugs and knife crime (he was the son of the lady who lived there and was a real nasty thing. He even started on our removal chaps and they just laughed him off. When I explained that I didn't know him apart form the fact I had met him in passing whilst moving and now he doesn't live there the FEO was like "Ah great, I'll drop your cert off later". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 As Dekers and Kent have said, the police have, for years, done background checks on all those who live at the same address. Seems to me to be a very sensible policy and quite why some suggest that one should protest and complain at such a procedure is quite beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Because its nothing to do with the application thats personal and the police should check it out efficiently first and not do what happened to the OP. Also, security is just that - specify a higher level if necessary but its still a right to own a gun and as such, conditions should be made to fit circumstances, not finding reasons to refuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 i`d be tempted to write a strong letter, but i`d be more inclined to let BASC jump on this. the actions of someone else should not have an effect on your rights. afterall what would be the point of punishing someone else for another persons actions? If he is responsible for that person then it should. If the kid walked past your car with a tin of paint from his step dad's garage and poured it over your car, you would soon be questioning what the responsible parent was doing, or thinking of, letting the son loose with a tin of paint from the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxyChris Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) To a degree you should be responsible for other people you live with. If they are under 16 then you do take responsibility as that's what you signed up for when you became a parent. It may well be your right to have a gun but for the safety of others the FAO has to take everything in to account. If you lived with a convicted armed robber would you still come on here and complain that you had your license taken off you? Would you say that it wasn't fair and that the actions of others shouldn't affect you or would you be sensible and accept that it was the right decision? It sounds more like your FAO was covering his back and giving a little warning so that if your son does get in trouble again you know what to expect. As most FAO's are civilians working for the Police then this is in no way a 'caution'. Edited August 19, 2014 by FoxyChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.