Drug Smugglers executed in Indonesia

[Gordon R]

Mr Sheen - I worry that outsiders looking at the Forum might well think that it was frequented by ill-educated do-gooders who seek to impose their own views on other countries.

 

Think of the pressure on fieldsports before you say that someone needs a visit from the Constabulary. Think who wrote that ill-judged comment.

[welsh1]

Mr Sheen,

It would look to the outside world that you have your opinion and any other that has an opposite opinion is ridiculed by you at this moment in time.The death penalty is an emotive subject,but calling on a forum is bad form,argue the heck for your side,have the occasional dig,but not out and out disparaging remarks,that just gets threads closed and stops the debate in it's tracks.

Edited April 28, 2015 by welsh1

[rodp]

I know where you are coming from, if there is any degree of corruption then the whole shebang can be corrupt so any decision is unsafe.

 

Even more reason not to play with fire, we know that honest justice has an unenviable record in some parts of the world, which is of course why western libertarians always try to gain clemency or some sort of mercy.

 

There isn't an easy answer other than don't smuggle drugs in Indonesia.

Janner / CPS. And the difference between them and us is what exactly ?

[deputy dog]

Haha I've had to laugh at some of these posts.

Some people think drug trafficking ain't worth the death penalty, even though it ruins thousands of lives and takes thousands of lives a year.

But yet a fox takes a lamb, a crow steals a chick or pigeons peck a few bits of corn and their all out with their guns wanting to blow their brains out in the name of livestock and crop protection. Even though these living things are doing what's natural to them for survival, most if not every shooter sees this as a criminal act most worthy of the death penalty under the collective name of preservation.

 

I for one haven't got no sympathy for those condemned to death. In my opinion they new the score, gambled and lost. The law of the land is the law of the land even though it may seem iffy at any point in time. Yes if the were local lads I doubt we would have heard about it. But means they were Australian it was broad cast to the nations for a reaction and to send a message to other would be smugglers. If you get caught in our country with drugs, this could be what happens to you.

 

Gareth

[Mr-Sheen]

Mr Sheen - I worry that outsiders looking at the Forum might well think that it was frequented by ill-educated do-gooders who seek to impose their own views on other countries.

 

Think of the pressure on fieldsports before you say that someone needs a visit from the Constabulary. Think who wrote that ill-judged comment.

Gordon, i have a masters of chemistry, i have worked in the medical industry for the last 3 years. Before you tell me how well educated i am, its probably best you ask about my education beforehand. If anybody looks ill educated, it would be yourself. Your blatant refusal to acknowledge the academic studies i have posted shows nothing other than ignorance and stubbornness to accept the truth. They aren't exactly the qualities of the enlightened person you like to pretend you are.

 

I have thought of the pressure on fieldsports. Hence why i felt the need to put a representation across that not everybody who participates fieldsports are vengeful, violent individuals who would get satisfaction from the death of another person.

 

Mr Sheen,

It would look to the outside world that you have your opinion and any other that has an opposite opinion is ridiculed by you at this moment in time.The death penalty is an emotive subject,but calling on a forum is bad form,argue the heck for your side,have the occasional dig,but not out and out disparaging remarks,that just gets threads closed and stops the debate in it's tracks.

Fair enough welsh1

Im going to leave this thread as it is. I have made my point.

 

Im sure you will enjoy having the last word gordon.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Mr-Sheen

[FalconFN]

To be fair to Indonesia they don't execute many people and a fair proportion of those they do execute are foreign nationals so it isn't surprising that we get to hear about those. I'm sure I heard about the Dutch national that was executed a few years ago too.

 

Whatever your views on drugs and the death penalty are, a European or someone from a commonwealth country being executed is newsworthy. Would anyone be posting on here if it was an Indonesian being shot? Probably not.

[Gordon R]

Gareth - I think that is a fair point. Indonesia might well welcome the publicity about its attitude to drug traffickers. They might well look down on our "enlightened" treatment of criminals.

 

I suspect there are few Forums in Indonesia discussing how Nichola Sturgeon is effectively holding the country to ransom. They probably think it's our own business.

 

PS - Mr Sheen - I didn't really see the need for you to say you had a "masters of chemistry" One of my former staff had the same. However, he was quite bright.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Gordon R

[southeastpete]

I'm not against the worst criminals being killed, such as mass murderers etc. I don't think you deserve to die for trafficking drugs.

There are no less drug dealers in Indonesia. There are less mules in Australia. People in dire circumstances are tricked, threatened, bribed into it, and pay horrible consequences. I'm just glad they weren't hung.

If they sat at home and thought, screw it, I'm going to smuggle some drugs to Indonesia because I'll make loads of money. I know they kill you, but I think I'm above the law and won't get caught. Then yes maybe they deserved what they got.

It's like that law in America, where if your part of a crime in which someone dies, you get done for murder. So if some silly kid was convinced to get in a stolen car, and his mate then ran someone over, they could be put to death. Fair? They knew the risks...?

[grrclark]

it may be emotive, but would you please consider how this would read to somebody from outside the forum. It very much comes across that somebody with access to firearms is callous, and has little care for the suffering of others. This is clearly not something that we as a community want to portray, especially with the pressure that is on fieldsports as it is

Your assertion is deductively invalid from Harnsers statement.

 

He has a strong opinion, no denying that, but it is not callous. He has said that he believes anybody dealing in drugs should face the death penalty. That is simply that he believes drug dealing should carry a much more severe penalty.

 

Now i might and would argue with his stance on that, but what he said does not reflect on the shooting community at all and neither does it suggest that he would be more predisposed to committing a crime with a firearm that your retort to him implied.

 

It also does not imply that he wants to see people suffer.

 

There is nothing wrong with your arguments against capital punishment, just don't descend into daft argument when you have perfectly good ones that you can use is all.

[Harnser]

To think that the anyone in their right mind would issue a firearm to somebody that would openly admit they would gleefully watch somebody die is unreal. I seriously think you need counselling and a visit from your constabulary.

 

My dear friend . I think you are due a visit from the good manners fairy . I have been involved in crime and punishment from the sharpe end for over 30 years . I do know a lot about criminals and how their minds work . I gained this experience by actually working with them not by reading books written by so called experts . I say it again ,society in my opinion is entitled to retribution from this festering scum that would sell drugs to our school children . May be when you grow up a bit and learn a bit about how the criminal mind works you will understand what I am saying .

 

Harnser

Edited April 28, 2015 by Harnser

[grrclark]

Janner / CPS. And the difference between them and us is what exactly ?

That is a daft argument too although i also understand why you make it.

 

Not sure that is corruption, ill judged maybe, but corrupt? It could be of course, we have history of corrupt decision making in this country.

 

I work on the basis of assumption that our justice system is mostly fair and reasonable, sure there are exceptions, but in the main it is good.

 

Anyway none of that is relevant in my reply to Welsh1 and neither is your comment in response to mine in the context of this discussion

[subsonicnat]

Cannot think if I have quoted this before, if I did Please forgive me:

 

An Arab Prince was being interviewed by a Television Reporter on the TV.

When asked about the barbaric way People have their hands chopped off for stealing in his country, and the be headings etc.

To which the Prince Replied in a very low voice, He looked in our papers every day, Murders,Rapists,Thieves,Muggers, Etc Etc.

And he wondered who were the Barbarians, Damn Good Point that:

[FalconFN]

Cannot think if I have quoted this before, if I did Please forgive me:

 

An Arab Prince was being interviewed by a Television Reporter on the TV.

When asked about the barbaric way People have their hands chopped off for stealing in his country, and the be headings etc.

To which the Prince Replied in a very low voice, He looked in our papers every day, Murders,Rapists,Thieves,Muggers, Etc Etc.

And he wondered who were the Barbarians, Damn Good Point that:

Surely it's only a good point if there were fewer murders, rapes, muggings and thefts in his country. Very unlikely indeed.

[welsh1]

Cannot think if I have quoted this before, if I did Please forgive me:

 

An Arab Prince was being interviewed by a Television Reporter on the TV.

When asked about the barbaric way People have their hands chopped off for stealing in his country, and the be headings etc.

To which the Prince Replied in a very low voice, He looked in our papers every day, Murders,Rapists,Thieves,Muggers, Etc Etc.

And he wondered who were the Barbarians, Damn Good Point that:

I was chatting to an arab prince once and he commented that women in his country wouldn't dare go out without a male chaperone and were not even allowed to drive.I told him he was a barbarian from the dark ages.

 

 

The above story may not be true,well i did chat once to an arab,i was actually in Saudi,and it is possible he could have been a prince,but apart from that the rest may be a bit of a fib

[Psyxologos]

I have mixed feelings about capital punishment. It makes sense if the crime is hineous and there is absolutely no way the person is not guilty and there is no hope for rehabilitation etc. But how often can we be absolutely sure (and not just sure beyond reasonable doubt, this is not good enough) this is the case? I am not sure this can be widely used as a deterrent succesfully and avoid killing someone who is innocent.

 

I saw this on the news and my initial reaction was 'great,a few less drug dealers in the world'. I then thought to myself, what if one or more of them were not actual drug dealers and someone had 'muled' them and now they are paying the price? Muled is the term used when gangs somehow manage to slip the drags on unsuspected traveller's bags and collect them at the other end. When I first heard this I thought it was absurd. How can this happen? I thought to myself. Then I saw a video the authorities had of an incident, and I was amazed at how skilled the people involved were, and how the unsuspected travellers were just that. Unsuspected and inocent. We sometimes believe this would never work on us as we are smart etc etc, but I am not sure I would have noticed it if it did happen to me. Scary...

[evo]

ALL DRUG TRAFFICKERS WILL BE EXECUTED

 

I WOULD LOVE A SIGN LIKE THAT ON ALL OUR AIRPORTS,,,,

 

those scumbags got exactly what they deserved,

[moose man]

If this is the same case as I think it is , in the next batch to face the guns is a British woman ..,,,caught along with the Australians . Seems they have equal rights for women , who said they were backward ..My view is the old one , if you can't do the time , don't do the crime .

[Mungler]

Apparently the Indonesian government were losing support in national polls and so like the Romans they put on some executions to rally up the people and to become more popular. One wonders why drug traffickers caught 8 years ago were up for a bullet now?

 

In a corrupt country what is achieved by executing a small percentage of drug mules, bearing in mind these mules are not the brains or the major profiteers.

 

I'm still scratching my head as to what the war on drugs has achieved and or seeks to achieve? There are some interesting a fairly radical documentaries out there on the subject and whichever way you look at it shooting a few mules won't actually achieve anything.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm fairly ambivalent on the subject of foreign countries whacking people but I make the point these executions are nothing more than a Roman spectacle and serve no other real purpose than that.

[kdubya]

Whilst I am basically against the death penalty. Its their country its their Laws, yes they may be as mung says underlying reasons (more than likely) but its their country, the risks of the smugglers being caught where known , the potential outcome was known so nope no argument from me, and as one who has attended the funeral of a young relative late last year thanks to him taking drugs,all I can say is anything to stop the smugglers, who are spreading death and misery , is no bad thing at all.

 

 

KW

[mel b3]

ALL DRUG TRAFFICKERS WILL BE EXECUTED

 

I WOULD LOVE A SIGN LIKE THAT ON ALL OUR AIRPORTS,,,,

 

those scumbags got exactly what they deserved,

dont hold back bob , say what you really think lol.

 

 

drugs = misery , those facts are well known and well documented , ive seen it first hand and it ruins lives .

 

im very torn over the death penalty , some criminals deserve to be put to death , but , i have very little faith in the integrity of police forces or governments.

 

in this case it does seem that mungler has hit the nail on the head , it would appear to be more of a political move than a crime prevention move.

[sako751sg]

To think that the anyone in their right mind would issue a firearm to somebody that would openly admit they would gleefully watch somebody die is unreal. I seriously think you need counselling and a visit from your constabulary.

 

 

 

You were doing very well and had my utmost respect right up until this post.

Now,its gone,all gone.

Why would the constabulary visit for Harnsers post?

[Browning 425 clay hunter]

How can some say the death penalty is not a deterrent, there's 9 less of them now who certainly won't be doing it again. I mean come on, smuggling drugs in a country with the death penalty, getting caught then complaining about the punishment, really ?

 

I think we should have it over here. I'd volunteer for firing squad duties. 3" gamebore mammoth no.1 through my trusty old mossy pump.

 

One thing I've learnt from all of this, I won't ever be smuggling drugs through their county, so the death penalty has been a deterrent for me. ATB 425

[moose man]

How do you gauge how much of a deterrent it is ? As much as the drug mules want the money the knowledge that if caught you WILL DIE , must deter a tidy amount .

[Mochastorm]

No, yes, no, no. The death penalty has no place in a civilised society.

[Scully]

 

 

We no longer support the death penalty in this country, and we used to. Things have moved on.

That's merely a sweeping generalisation dependant on who you regard as 'we'. Our government no longer supports the death penalty in this country, but what about the general population?

You still haven't explained how things have moved on. Who has moved on; our society? The human race? Moved on from what; raping those of the opposite sex and then killing them to cover up the crime? Waging war on others based on nothing more than religion? Robbing and killing each other for no other motive than monetary gain? Exploiting those fellow human beings amongst who are vulnerable, including children? Moved on how exactly?