69chris Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Theresa Mays latest offering......... 'said she would be lobbying her European counterparts for tighter gun laws across the EU'. (full story can be found here..... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34836925 ) im assuming whatever happens we'll also get dragged into it - thoughts ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 There was another article on the Beeb website saying that an attack in the UK of similar nature to the one in France, whilst possible, was much harder to organise because of our much stricter gun laws. It`s also far more difficult to smuggle guns into the UK than into the rest of Europe. I doubt we have much to worry about as regards our gun laws being tightened up. It`s more likely our laws would be used as a model for the rest of Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I think your find its her suggesting UK style gun laws across Europe , not tighter here , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Post removed in light of the comment above. Edited November 16, 2015 by Browning 425 clay hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Don't think it will effect sporting guns, don't think a .22 rim fire is the terrorists first choice in weapon, one thing this attack might do is make the general public more jumpy when they see someone hiding in an hedgerow with a gun wearing como gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Once again You can't legislate against the un-legislated I might have things in my cabinet that you can't have in the UK but even here in France I cannot purchase full auto. As it is, hunting rifles/ shotguns are easy to obtain. Everything else involves a chat with the Police Municipal and their background checks so it's fall to the illegal obtaining of these weapons. In know from a Police friend here that the proliferation/ availability of arms floating about from the former Balkan conflict is of concern along with those shipped across the med alongside migrants. Belgium and its ports have historically been a centre for the Arms trade I arrived back from work yesterday to 'Passport Controls', did I mind? Did I heck, a few extra mins of my time so they know who is arriving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I was in a hotel bar when the Paris attacks came on the news and one person that was at the football stadium said of all days it was when he was at the stadium where he couldn't carry his gun. I don't know what the law is in France but it got me thinking if there was some sort of special armed police force where vetted and trained people could carry a gun would the out come have been different? Would the death toll been lower if there had been half a dozen people trained and armed at the rock concert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 All Police here 'Carry' From the guys I know they have their service arm with them at all times. Rather like PSNI I believe? Civilians can be licenced, indeed you can also apply for a permit to have a handgun at home for personal defence. But this not always necc when you can openly purchase a BP pistol without a licence, stun guns and CS gas also freely available. Imagine going to your local shoe repairers and buying an automatic knife, stun gun and CS gas, well that's what you can do here........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperfection Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Not sure how much more stricter our firearm laws can get. Self loading/full auto centrefire along with pistos is already banned for civillian use so short of all magazine loading firearms being withdrawn too i fail to see what alse they can take away from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longspoon Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Not sure how much more stricter our firearm laws can get. Self loading/full auto centrefire along with pistos is already banned for civillian use so short of all magazine loading firearms being withdrawn too i fail to see what alse they can take away from us. Your right to own a shotgun maybe ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tx4cabbie Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Always confuses me, the ill-conceived correlation between legally owned firearms and those used in crime /terrorism. A little research online gives you plenty of evidence that criminals tend to get their toys from, wait for it, other criminals. If you're shipping in some Charlie and a few thousand pills, why not slip a couple of eastern European pistols or smgs in too? used to be about a grand for a makarov, made in the proper factory, legally, to fire cs gas, then converted across the border, with suppressor and some ammo, for purchase here in London. You can't tell me that with the swingeing cuts in policing, and I'm assuming similar cuts to border controls, that it's less likely these things can get in? To suggest that the other European nations remove their citizen's guns, like we've had many of ours removed, to reduce the risk of crime and terrorism, is ludicrous - you can walk, without hindrance, from countries where you can buy smgs for cash, to countries near here. As usual, the only folk gun controls will affect are those who obey laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I have had it on good authority from people I knew that whilst guns are available on the black market for a price, actually gaining the suitable ammunition in large quantities is the stumbling block. Basically you can get a 9mm pistol from some nefarious person but the amount of rounds is limited to half a magazine at most. Of course this may be just urban myth 👌 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamey Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Always confuses me, the ill-conceived correlation between legally owned firearms and those used in crime /terrorism. A little research online gives you plenty of evidence that criminals tend to get their toys from, wait for it, other criminals. If you're shipping in some Charlie and a few thousand pills, why not slip a couple of eastern European pistols or smgs in too? used to be about a grand for a makarov, made in the proper factory, legally, to fire cs gas, then converted across the border, with suppressor and some ammo, for purchase here in London. You can't tell me that with the swingeing cuts in policing, and I'm assuming similar cuts to border controls, that it's less likely these things can get in? To suggest that the other European nations remove their citizen's guns, like we've had many of ours removed, to reduce the risk of crime and terrorism, is ludicrous - you can walk, without hindrance, from countries where you can buy smgs for cash, to countries near here. As usual, the only folk gun controls will affect are those who obey laws. You are spot on. Hopefully the British government don't have new knee jerk legislation enacted to erode rights even more. Any tighter and you will only be able to have a Nerf gun! I say this half jokingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 they will find away of getting your guns,again we will suffer one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tx4cabbie Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 As much as a tool as I think Cameron is, I actually had some respect for his response after the Derrick bird tragedy, when the media turned to him expectantly for his "I'll ban things! " speech, and he instead said that we need to think before we act. Wonder how many of our elected servants are working through in their heads their own "I'll ban it! " speech, to capitalise on the recent atrocities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) It`s also far more difficult to smuggle guns into the UK than into the rest of Europe They managed to get plenty into this part of the UK. Basically you can get a 9mm pistol from some nefarious person but the amount of rounds is limited to half a magazine at most. Of course this may be just urban myth Possibly i would have tought ammo would be easer to get than the firearms. Edited November 16, 2015 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 That's what I thought but the trade is not in selling the guns, it's hiring out with a limited amount of ammo. Gun is returned to be hired out again. You wouldn't last long as a black market dealer if the main product never came back. I think the people who deal in these weapons know their client base - renting to a someone who wants the gun plus 2000 rounds of ammo is not within their remit. Of course I could be making this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tx4cabbie Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 I thought that the deal was, you take a clean gun for, let's say a grand, and if you return it unfired, you only pay the rental, let's say 200; but if you use it, you don't get your deposit back, as no-one wants to carry something that could get you 20 years for something some other bloke did. Could be wrong, or hopelessly out of date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 They managed to get plenty into this part of the UK. Possibly i would have tought ammo would be easer to get than the firearms. Yes the IRA and it`s splinter groups did manage to acquire decent sized weapons caches. However that was an organisation that had been in existence for many years. Plus I dare say they had sympathisers in position to aid in getting guns into the country. The same cannot (yet) be said of IS. Plus, that doesn`t really change the fact that it`s far easier to drive through most of continental europe with weapons, crossing open borders than it is to smuggle those same guns into the UK which still has border checks. I never said it was impossible, just more difficult. As for ammunition, I know of someone who was approached and asked if he`d sell shotgun shells. If it`s difficult to acquire cartridges for shotguns then I`d imagine it`s much harder to acquire ammo for firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 Wonder how many of our elected servants are working through in their heads their own "I'll ban it! " speech, to capitalise on the recent atrocities. I can't really see any politician being taken seriously with such a speech; I doubt there is much ground to be made by suggesting there is a link between lawfully owned firearms and those used by terrorists or the criminal element. Apparently there have been three teenagers shot in Liverpool so far this year, with the most recent one last night resulting in a death. As far as I'm aware no one has suggested lawfully owned firearms were involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 16, 2015 Report Share Posted November 16, 2015 If, as I am sure everyone will agree, Europe is visibly awash with people who have made it in virtually unchecked. We see them every night on the news coming in by the boatload. That only gets seen because its "a humanitarian crisis" What you don't see are the smugglers bringing in every sort of contraband just as easily. How can anyone even think that the borders are secure regarding guns? Or anything else for that matter? Drugs, counterfeit goods etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenduri Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I was in a hotel bar when the Paris attacks came on the news and one person that was at the football stadium said of all days it was when he was at the stadium where he couldn't carry his gun. I don't know what the law is in France but it got me thinking if there was some sort of special armed police force where vetted and trained people could carry a gun would the out come have been different? Would the death toll been lower if there had been half a dozen people trained and armed at the rock concert? The problem is that to make this effective and worthwhile you would need to train a seriously large number of people. Anyway studies have shown that unless the person has extremely good training the vast majority of folks who carry, mainly in the USA eithet cant draw their concealed carry in time to make it a difference without getting themselves killed or without making a hash of it. The studies were in the form of simulations and the majority failed to be at all effective at responding to a gun man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenduri Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I have had it on good authority from people I knew that whilst guns are available on the black market for a price, actually gaining the suitable ammunition in large quantities is the stumbling block. Basically you can get a 9mm pistol from some nefarious person but the amount of rounds is limited to half a magazine at most. Of course this may be just urban myth 👌 As far as im aware this is correct, there is a healthy market in France and Germany of amateur gunsmiths who turn blanks firers or deacs back into crude but functioning weapons that then go on sale on the black market but primarily on the sinister side of the dark web. Whilst there is access to the firearms there is limited access to the ammunition esoecially the right caliber. Again there have been studies and there are researchers who can back this all up. I think VICE news did a short report on this once and met up with a German guy from the dark web to look at his operation and who he converts them and sells them online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 The problem is that to make this effective and worthwhile you would need to train a seriously large number of people. Anyway studies have shown that unless the person has extremely good training the vast majority of folks who carry, mainly in the USA eithet cant draw their concealed carry in time to make it a difference without getting themselves killed or without making a hash of it. The studies were in the form of simulations and the majority failed to be at all effective at responding to a gun man The simulations you talk about were fake. The killer in all instances were told who the cc holders were . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 The simulations you talk about were fake. The killer in all instances were told who the cc holders were . there's plenty of other examples of armed people failing to operate in the Seagal type way required, watch any of the 'succesful' videos and you'll see it's basically pointing and shooting in the general direction and pure luck nobody else gets shot most of the time There's a reason SF train so hard to do counter terrorism and it's because the fight or flight reflex reduces most people to barely functioning animals just trying to stay alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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