Angry under keeper

[JDog]

I see both sides of this scenario which is why I never shoot pigeons where there is an active game shoot until the end of the season. Even then I need to be sure of my ground as the 'keeper will no doubt want to thank the beaters and pickers up with some pigeon shooting on smashed up game cover.

[winnie&bezza]

That's how I got into shooting properly! I was 17 and not long got my 1st air rifle. My brother in law knew the shoot captain of the shoot that is on the estate I used to live on due to doing building work for him. The shoot captain rented some land off of the owners of the land which the shoot was on (they had 1800 acres) and my brother in law asked him if I could do some shooting to which he kindly said yes as he had rabbits on his cover crop. So I started going up there which was only a couple of minutes drive away and got dropped off. I think it was my second or third time there when I was walking down the grass field with 2 rabbits and I saw a green hilux came hurtling across the field. I knew who it was and it was the new keeper that just started and I'd seen his vehicle drive past my house as I lived snack bang on the estate. He drove up to me with a face like thunder and said what you doing! Then picked up a 243 round and said I parked up over there and would of been shooting this towards the wood in your direction if a fox came out and this would of gone straight through you. So I said I've been given permission by so and so (keepers boss) to shoot here and he said I haven't been told that and told me to wait there. So I walked down to the gate entrance and a few mins later he returned saying he was angry at his boss for not telling him and he apologised and said he doesn't know many people round here and asked if I wanted to go lamping with him :-). Of course I was ecstatic and a few days later he rang saying do you fancy coming out tonight as it was first night of harvest and then my shooting life began as I helped him out after work and weekends and got all the shooting i wanted.

[Katzenjammer]

That is absolutely spot on!!!! However there is a way to speak to people and using the threat of violence is not one of them . You speak to people the way you yourself like to be spoken to. More so when the underkeeper probably has a SGC and FAC and to use threatening violence could see him losing his tickets. Thats a sure fire way of him losing the roof over his head just as much as poor shoot days.

ATB,

Pat

This says it all given the number of posts that talk about anger and aggressive attitudes and language? Bad enough against a fellow shooter but it is no wonder that the general public are increasingly anti if they come against these types?

[old'un]

I shoot land that have keepers, I am very friendly with the owners of the land and if I wished I could go where and when ever I wanted and the land owner would back me up, but I would not shoot that land before going and seeing the keeper and asking him if there were any no go areas, it works both ways.

 

If you go vermin shooting without telling the keeper and you get your ear bent then its your fault, end of.

[JRDS]

I shoot pigeons on a large commercial game shoot and have seen enough game birds remain in close proximity to me whilst shooting doing their normal thing to lead me to believe Pigeon shooting causes very little disturbance to game birds.

[Hamster]

I've had a couple of funny encounters over the years, once shooting pigeon 200 yards from the entrance gate to my right but shooting well away across the field when this old boy appears flailing his arms and asking me over, so off I go thinking all sorts like have I peppered anything, has someone slashed my tyres, is he a pigeon shooter himself etc, and when I got there it turns out he's just a complete random nutter who proceeded to tell me off for killing birds and said if I didn't stop he'd shove my gun up my behind . Turning on my heels to walk back I just muttered (f f .) I thought you had something interesting to say.

 

Another time a good mate and I had found an absolute peach of a flight and were busy knocking everything down in sight warmly ensconced in a bale hide miles from any obvious source of where the bales could have come from when this raging maniac appeared all of a sudden who couldn't speak he was so livid turns out he'd spent days carrying the bales to that spot one by one by hand and was now quite understandably shattered to find us two reaping the benefits. Stuart and I couldn't stop laughing for days after that.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Hamster

[team tractor]

I give the keeper a ring before I go, if he says not tonight josephine then that's it, I go elsewhere. He has kicked one of the previous Foxers off there that's why I've got it. Quite well justified too.

I thought your name was Sarah

[Luckyshot]

I shoot land that have keepers, I am very friendly with the owners of the land and if I wished I could go where and when ever I wanted and the land owner would back me up, but I would not shoot that land before going and seeing the keeper and asking him if there were any no go areas, it works both ways.

 

If you go vermin shooting without telling the keeper and you get your ear bent then its your fault, end of.

 

What a load of ****, the keeper doesn't own the land so if the owner of the land ok's it with you to be there its up to you whether you shoot it or not.

[Fenny]

If that is private land you were shooting it had nothing to do with the under keeper should of called police when threatened. You could of got your mate landowner to complain of trespassing he would of got done. Carry on shooting it if your doing pest controll on private land nothing to do with anybody else.

The land was private and he was trespassing but I do some part time keepering and can understand his frustration my point was if he had spoke in a better manner I would have cleared up earlier and there would have been no issue

[kitchrat]

I shoot pigeons on a large commercial game shoot and have seen enough game birds remain in close proximity to me whilst shooting doing their normal thing to lead me to believe Pigeon shooting causes very little disturbance to game birds.

Try telling that to a keeper (true though it is). In fact you can be useful by stopping the pheasants from wandering..

I see both sides of this scenario which is why I never shoot pigeons where there is an active game shoot until the end of the season. Even then I need to be sure of my ground as the 'keeper will no doubt want to thank the beaters and pickers up with some pigeon shooting on smashed up game cover.

Agree 100%

[old'un]

What a load of ****, the keeper doesn't own the land so if the owner of the land ok's it with you to be there its up to you whether you shoot it or not.

Well if that's the attitude you take to other peoples sport (game shooting) then you must have some very understanding keepers on your permissions,

what's wrong with asking the keeper if there are any areas that are no go, keeps everyone happy and the word soon gets around and you get more permissions being courteous to the farmers and the keepers alike.

[rodp]

I thought your name was Sarah

Only on week days, he's probably wears a different outfit weekends

[rodp]

We share our shoot with moto x, no problems. If they're racing we don't go, if they're not then we shoot. There's only so much land on this tiny island of ours and it's much better if we all give and take

[Luckyshot]

Well if that's the attitude you take to other peoples sport (game shooting) then you must have some very understanding keepers on your permissions,

what's wrong with asking the keeper if there are any areas that are no go, keeps everyone happy and the word soon gets around and you get more permissions being courteous to the farmers and the keepers alike.

 

Not really, the last time I spoke to the head keeper on my permission I chased him for 3 miles boxed him in one of my fields and was about to drag him out of his landrover. Little did I know that he had been given a new landrover that week so when I caught him lamping from the road I thought he was poaching. He wasn't very impressed but the farmer who was just behind me was, since then we've never spoken since.

[Wilts#Dave]

All very valid points, I think every pigeon shooter has or has had to contend with a keeper or two. Some of them are great guys but the 'attitude' seems to come with the job and thays really not the way to go about things, albeit I realise they have a job to do.

When spoken to politely and given a valid reason to refrain from shooting in a particular place I'm more than happy to oblige, but as said already there's a right and wrong way of speaking to people and the whole aggressive approach isn't it.

Last run in we had was with a 'helper' on a bottle of whisky job pheasant shoot when we were shooting on rape after the season (which we'd deliberately left until then), who's first words were in a raised voice 'who gave you permission to drive on that stubble field behind to get to where we were shooting. He soon calmed down when he realised we were a.) friends of the landowner and b.) he recognised me as I shoot on a driven shoot where he beats. Really embarrassed himself with his attitude and had to eat humble pie.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Wilts#Dave

[Westley]

I shoot pigeons on a large commercial game shoot and have seen enough game birds remain in close proximity to me whilst shooting doing their normal thing to lead me to believe Pigeon shooting causes very little disturbance to game birds.

 

I thought that I was on my own thinking the same thing. I used to be in a syndicate on a firing range where shooting took place 6 days a week, on the 7th day, it was a syndicated game shoot. It did not seem to bother the birds on there. I have heard all the usual "they would be used to it" theories. It reminds me of the "don't shoot the pigeons before the first game birds appear " . I presume this is because it makes all the game break back over the beaters. So, that being the case, one would presume that after 1 or 2 shots at game, put your gun away, " cos the rest are all going to break back ?"

[kennett]

Surely it's more the fact that pigeons could have flighted from a long way back. When the line starts popping off at, let's face it, usually out of range pigeons, game will sneak out of the drive potentially before the beating team are completely in position.

[scotslad]

Some strange respones on here a couple of u moaning about keepers threatening behaviour yet threating to shoot them or chasing them miles at nite and threatening to box them. And seemingly thats ok?

If the keeper had done the above they would be getting a right slaggin but ok for pigeon shooters to do it?

 

A keepers job is hard enough at times esp with the general public nowadays so to get so called country folk with so little understanding is a bit worrying.

While the farmer has a right to allow some vermin shooting it would be better if he approached the keeper 1st to do it or put someone on that could do it.

Shooting over cut maize is not time sensitive as they're not damaging any crops so could easily have waited till after the shoot.

 

Even if a farmer/land owner owns the land he has let out the shooting so they should not have to put up with folk coming on the ground shooting without being asked/warned.

If u want to let folk on ur ground wily nily then don't sub let ur shooting. U can't have ur cake and eat it

[sako751sg]

Some strange respones on here a couple of u moaning about keepers threatening behaviour yet threating to shoot them or chasing them miles at nite and threatening to box them. And seemingly thats ok?

If the keeper had done the above they would be getting a right slaggin but ok for pigeon shooters to do it?

 

A keepers job is hard enough at times esp with the general public nowadays so to get so called country folk with so little understanding is a bit worrying.

While the farmer has a right to allow some vermin shooting it would be better if he approached the keeper 1st to do it or put someone on that could do it.

Shooting over cut maize is not time sensitive as they're not damaging any crops so could easily have waited till after the shoot.

 

Even if a farmer/land owner owns the land he has let out the shooting so they should not have to put up with folk coming on the ground shooting without being asked/warned.

If u want to let folk on ur ground wily nily then don't sub let ur shooting. U can't have ur cake and eat it

 

 

Do you even read the whole posts or do the blinkers just allow what you want to see in?

 

The shooting one if i remember correctly was a nutter,with a baseball bat threatening to cave someones head in.

Only in your world would a keeper be getting slagged for it but a PW member getting the ok for it.

You also seem to ignore the fact that many of the instances are of farm owned land where the keepers if leasing the land should be more diplomatic which many seem incapable of doing going by the many negative posts on here.

[scotslad]

Wether u own the land or not is really irrelevant. As long as shooters have a proper lease.

 

If u rent out a house/flat do u still carry on as if u own it? (And i know u do still own it)

 

But when it is leased the tennents have certain rights and in most cases decent landlords will probably even take 1 step furthert back to give tennents space.

So if u rent out ur shooting u have to make some comprimises too, it's not money for nowt.

All about comprimises and communication, they've both got a job to do and to work the lland together

 

I'm not defending the keepers but often that is the way they have been trained as underkeepers as that was the way there boss was trained.

Yes they often gets folks backs up behaving the way they do and if they're on leased land the lease may not be renewed, it depends how much the landowner wants the extra cash.

Sometimes a bit of politics involved too esp on bigger estates and tennanted farms, u might not be the only shooter hes moved on recently.

 

If u passed by a permissoin and found someone shooting there how civil would u actually be?

Was there not a pigeon shooter on just laughing about how he had a fantastic flight in a bale hide that some other poor sod had carried there and never shot yet, i think that is the hieght of ignorance, fair enough by mistake but to be laughing about it.

 

Yes keepers should be more civil but sometimes the red mist will come down, but if u walked across some freshly laid concrete how civil do u think the builder would be??

 

Personally i think u should treat folk the way u want to be treated, but end of day its no big drama being shouted at, had/seen plenty of swearing over the years of keepers and thats as part of there beating/picking up team.

I would say most younger keepers seem to be calmer but sometimes get worse with age, know a couple of mellow ones 5 yrs ago can hardly keep a beating team now

[Hamster]

Wether u own the land or not is really irrelevant. As long as shooters have a proper lease.

 

If u rent out a house/flat do u still carry on as if u own it? (And i know u do still own it)

 

But when it is leased the tennents have certain rights and in most cases decent landlords will probably even take 1 step furthert back to give tennents space.

So if u rent out ur shooting u have to make some comprimises too, it's not money for nowt.

All about comprimises and communication, they've both got a job to do and to work the lland together

 

I'm not defending the keepers but often that is the way they have been trained as underkeepers as that was the way there boss was trained.

Yes they often gets folks backs up behaving the way they do and if they're on leased land the lease may not be renewed, it depends how much the landowner wants the extra cash.

Sometimes a bit of politics involved too esp on bigger estates and tennanted farms, u might not be the only shooter hes moved on recently.

 

If u passed by a permissoin and found someone shooting there how civil would u actually be?

Was there not a pigeon shooter on just laughing about how he had a fantastic flight in a bale hide that some other poor sod had carried there and never shot yet, i think that is the hieght of ignorance, fair enough by mistake but to be laughing about it.

 

Yes keepers should be more civil but sometimes the red mist will come down, but if u walked across some freshly laid concrete how civil do u think the builder would be??

 

Personally i think u should treat folk the way u want to be treated, but end of day its no big drama being shouted at, had/seen plenty of swearing over the years of keepers and thats as part of there beating/picking up team.

I would say most younger keepers seem to be calmer but sometimes get worse with age, know a couple of mellow ones 5 yrs ago can hardly keep a beating team now

 

Yes it was me and damn funny it is even today. It's like this : farmers give permission to more than one person, when you get to a permission of yours and find a bale hide planted somewhere you have absolutely no way of knowing who built it (it is very often built by the farmer himself) because he wants the birds shot where they can be got at and he wants them shot when they're there not when it suits our week end decoyers.

 

Even if we'd known that a shooter had built it what did you expect us to have done ? Set up a net hide next to it or driven round asking who owned it ? Or should we have set up somewhere else altogether ? You can't own a hide anymore than you can own a patch you've cleared by the hedge using a machete.

 

This guy stormed up telling us what he'd done, we apologised and explained we'd no idea, asked if he wished to shoot there so we'd move which of course he couldn't because it wasn't convenient for him. Such is life, after he'd left we kept laughing because we could understand his frustration, comedy is tragedy dressed up.

[mikee]

I shoot pigeons on a large commercial game shoot and have seen enough game birds remain in close proximity to me whilst shooting doing their normal thing to lead me to believe Pigeon shooting causes very little disturbance to game birds.

spot on, they know when they're the quarry and when they're not

 

A few years ago I was given permission to shoot pigeons on a stubble towards the end of the game season when the birds are supposedly wild, the landowner just asked that I stay a couple of hundred yards away from his cover strip, which I did, after the first couple of shots the partridges high tailed it over the far hedge onto the next field and the pheasants all wandered away, within 2 hours there were pheasants walking about in among the deeks and the partridges were all back around the cover strip, I shot 90 odd pigeons that day so there was plenty of disturbance, as soon as the birds got used to the noise they were back

 

Mikee

[rjimmer]

the 'keeper will no doubt want to thank the beaters and pickers up with some pigeon shooting on smashed up game cover.

A lot of keepers sell pigeon shooting by the day, nowadays.

[dad]

in a lot of cases pheasant shoots always put cover right up against land they dont own to draw birds in and stop theirs wandering out. if its up against rape and you are doing crop protection and thats the best place to get or only place what do you who do you keep happy.

[old'un]

in a lot of cases pheasant shoots always put cover right up against land they dont own to draw birds in and stop theirs wandering out. if its up against rape and you are doing crop protection and thats the best place to get or only place what do you who do you keep happy.

What's wrong in keeping both the farmer and people with a vested interest in the game shooting happy, not to difficult to achieve with a little thought.

 

Mmmm "crop protection" is it really