TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Went to a clay ground with my son recently, stood waiting for a stand where to young guys were sharing a pump action. Every time they loaded it it was pointing at us! Son asked them if they would not point the gun at us, they replied "**** off" so we did. Issue is that pump actions, semi autos are not safe, and in my opinion should be banned from clay grounds all together. I know this statement will upset many but why should anyone need to use one anywhere but in a pigeon hide? You think pointing a loaded gun at someone is safe! Do you shoot a semi auto? I rest my case! Because of the poor actions of TWO "young guys" which your son addressed but the TWO of you failed to bring to the attention of the shoot owners you feel it acceptable to lump all pump and semi-auto users in to one group who should not be allowed to shoot at clay pigeon grounds. You state that it was a pump action that was poorly handled but then you set about semi-auto's too! BLIMEY, you've got it bad, have a long hard look at yourself man and address your shortcomings. It is not the gun that is the problem, it is the user and if they be poorly educated in the use of the weapon it is up to those of us more knowledgable shooters to educate and inform them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffin Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Worries for the future when shooting folk promote banning guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumphant59 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 so would it have been different if they had pointed a loaded over under or sxs at you i also fail to see how it was pointing at you unless they were tuning around in the stand to face you and in which case it would have again made no difference what type of action it was. and yes before you ask i shoot semi over, over under , sxs, bolt action , pistol infact pretty much most weapon systems i have fired They were loading the pump with it pointing towards us, it would not have been possible to point a sxs or o/u at us whilst loading it! The comment that it's not the gun but the user, my argument is that it is much more difficult to operate a semi auto in a safe manner than a sxs or o/u. When a traditional shotgun is broken it is clear for everyone to see it cannot be fired that is not the case with a semi auto. How many times have users thought their semi was empty only to discover a cartridge left in the breach? A game keeper friend of mine who has been shooting for 50 years blew a hole in the roof of his vehicle recently when he thought his semi was empty! We had a vermin shoot on our syndicate three weeks ago and the keeper had to have words with a guy getting the shoot trailer with his semi auto pointing into the trailer at other guns. So I stick to my point, semi autos and pump action guns are not as safe as sxs or o/u even in experienced hands, I am always slightly nervous when I see on being used at a clay ground and certainly when one is used for driven game and I still maintain the view that semi autos and pump auctioned guns should not be allowed at clay grounds. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 They were loading the pump with it pointing towards us, it would not have been possible to point a sxs or o/u at us whilst loading it! The comment that it's not the gun but the user, my argument is that it is much more difficult to operate a semi auto in a safe manner than a sxs or o/u. When a traditional shotgun is broken it is clear for everyone to see it cannot be fired that is not the case with a semi auto. How many times have users thought their semi was empty only to discover a cartridge left in the breach? A game keeper friend of mine who has been shooting for 50 years blew a hole in the roof of his vehicle recently when he thought his semi was empty! We had a vermin shoot on our syndicate three weeks ago and the keeper had to have words with a guy getting the shoot trailer with his semi auto pointing into the trailer at other guns. So I stick to my point, semi autos and pump action guns are not as safe as sxs or o/u even in experienced hands, I am always slightly nervous when I see on being used at a clay ground and certainly when one is used for driven game and I still maintain the view that semi autos and pump auctioned guns should not be allowed at clay grounds. Sorry. better tell Duncan Lawton then....or maybe you DON'T know who he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 Semi auto,s & pumps are dangerous? YOU ARE WRONG again it is PEOPLE who are dangerous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 What a load of old tosh is written on this forum . I have used a gas gun for shooting all game and vermin in this country ,and deer in the USA . I like to shoot my self loader at clay grounds and have never heard one adverse comment from other shooters whilst using it . I always use a flag in the breach and put the gun in the slip between stands without exception . What does annoy me with some semi users is that they don't pick their empties up after shooting . Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 What a load of old tosh is written on this forum . I have used a gas gun for shooting all game and vermin in this country ,and deer in the USA . I like to shoot my self loader at clay grounds and have never heard one adverse comment from other shooters whilst using it . I always use a flag in the breach and put the gun in the slip between stands without exception . What does annoy me with some semi users is that they don't pick their empties up after shooting . Harnser Have you noticed how the empty shells ejected from an auto/pump could lose themselves on a billiard table? Lol Try finding all your empties in the pitch dark after an evening flight Wildfowling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) What does annoy me with some semi users is that they don't pick their empties up after shooting . Yet some more unfounded bs. This argument does not hold water. Where I shoot many or most of my empties end up over the safety fence. I have also seen many s/s/o/u users walk away leaving theirs on the ground. Edited April 9, 2016 by B25Modelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted April 9, 2016 Report Share Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) Have you noticed how the empty shells ejected from an auto/pump could lose themselves on a billiard table? Lol Try finding all your empties in the pitch dark after an evening flight Wildfowling! yep, almost as difficult as finding the lead shot and plastic wads. It all contaminates. Edited April 9, 2016 by B25Modelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impala59 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 A sad day when shooters deride each other, we have enough knockers in the press, police, government and the uninformed general public. If any shooter is acting dangerously or outside of club or shooting ground rules it is for the club to act when informed of the misdemeanour. The old chestnut of knocking someone else's equipment because it is not what you like or use will only give ammunition to the "ban everything" movement. They wait patiently for us to metaphorically "shoot ourselves in the foot". It's about time also, that our organisations got together for UK shooting rather than looking at their own narrow view of their own "sport/discipline" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumphant59 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 If we are to have any hope of retaining the sport we all enjoy we must be seen to be totally responsible and prioritise safety above all else. I do not want to loose my sport because of the actions of a few irresponsible individuals and in my experience I have witnessed far more situations where I have not been happy with the way an individual is handling a semi-auto than a conventional shotgun. I appreciate you should not tar all semi-auto users with the same brush but you have to face facts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 But you are not talking about facts! If we are to have any hope of retaining the sport we all enjoy we must be seen to be totally responsible and prioritise safety above all else. I do not want to loose my sport because of the actions of a few irresponsible individuals and in my experience I have witnessed far more situations where I have not been happy with the way an individual is handling a semi-auto than a conventional shotgun. I appreciate you should not tar all semi-auto users with the same brush but you have to face facts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 If we are to have any hope of retaining the sport we all enjoy we must be seen to be totally responsible and prioritise safety above all else. I do not want to loose my sport because of the actions of a few irresponsible individuals and in my experience I have witnessed far more situations where I have not been happy with the way an individual is handling a semi-auto than a conventional shotgun. I appreciate you should not tar all semi-auto users with the same brush but you have to face facts! What facts would these be then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumphant59 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 The fact that I have seen all too often semi autos used in an unsafe way. It is clear that some on here hide their heads in the sand and won't accept the truth. Hey ho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElvisThePelvis Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 yep, almost as difficult as finding the lead shot and plastic wads. It all contaminates. Hopefully not wildfowling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 The fact that I have seen all too often semi autos used in an unsafe way. It is clear that some on here hide their heads in the sand and won't accept the truth. Hey ho! Like I've said before, it's not the fault of the mechanism but the owner. I have been on countless driven day shoots and in all the years I've been shooting I have lost count of the number of times I have seen people remove their sxs and ou guns from their slip and proceed to wave the muzzles through all those standing around them, and then repeat the process before putting them away. If you want a prime example of a top shot doing exactly this, look no further than one of the Dave Carrie videos on this forum. The mechanism plays no part in gun safety whether you like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumphant59 Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 In your opinion the mechanism plays no part in gun safety, in my opinion it does and we are all entitled to an opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 In your opinion the mechanism plays no part in gun safety, in my opinion it does and we are all entitled to an opinion! Absolutely. However your opinion is neither fact nor truth, it`s just your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throdgrain Posted April 10, 2016 Report Share Posted April 10, 2016 In your opinion the mechanism plays no part in gun safety, in my opinion it does and we are all entitled to an opinion! Sorry but that's just ******** matey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 In your opinion the mechanism plays no part in gun safety, in my opinion it does and we are all entitled to an opinion! I'm not really sure it's just an opinion; the majority of the worlds armed forces are equipped with the same mechanism as your average semi auto ( self loading ) shotgun. They appear to be doing ok, and when you consider the numbers of that mechanism ( including pistols ) which must be in use on a day to day basis their safety record must be up there with the best. There is an example on here of a deer calibre rifle being discharged through a car windscreen; assumedly from a bolt action rifle as centre fire semi auto rifles are banned in this country. Accidents happen but it wouldn't be down to the mechanism even if a faulty one, but rather one of muzzle awareness or poor consideration of backstop. Firearms are inanimate objects; without human intervention they are harmless. Now that is a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 I think it,s time this was put to bed, the only dangerous actions are the ones carried out by the person in charge of the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 I've no axe to grind against semi's. Indeed, my shooting buddy has a Beretta 400 series 20 bore with kickoff (I do make sure I sit on his left). My gripes are with the owner / user and two examples of my gripes took place at a local clay ground at the weekend. 1. A young man (a very good shot) did not have a red tag in his semi when walking between stands and, when the gun was not in the gunslip, it was pointing all over the place. 2. When he left EACH stand there were 10 spent cartridges on the ground which he failed to pick up: ill mannered and offensive to fellow guns and shoot operators. It was mentioned to the operators so hopefully he will be told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B25Modelman Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 (edited) In your opinion the mechanism plays no part in gun safety, in my opinion it does and we are all entitled to an opinion! In your first post you make no mention of any other incidence with s/a or pumps. Then you say, The fact that I have seen all too often semi autos used in an unsafe way. This makes me think you are only here to STIR the brown stuff. Also, in your first post you state, Every time they loaded it it was pointing at us! So the first time they loaded it and pointed it at you, you did not have the sense to MOVE. I SURELY would have and QUICKLY. Edited April 11, 2016 by B25Modelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 The fact that I have seen all too often semi autos used in an unsafe way. It is clear that some on here hide their heads in the sand and won't accept the truth. Hey ho! Isn't your statement " I have see all too often semi autos used in an unsafe way" confirming it is the user that is unsafe not the semi auto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) In your opinion the mechanism plays no part in gun safety, in my opinion it does and we are all entitled to an opinion!We are, and in my opinion you should give up shooting as you clearly think it's too dangerous. You have to be the winner for the most ludicrous post on PW. Just my opinion of course. Edited April 12, 2016 by 12gauge82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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