WelshMike Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Most of the ground I shoot on is well under control with regards to the fox numbers. I generally try and hit them hard over the winter to avoid shooting vixens with cubs. As I have mentioned on a number of posts this isnt always possible where there are problem foxes or where I have taken on new ground and the owner wants dead foxes not a discussion about ethics. I have 3 small farms that I recently took on, all belonging to the same family and all around 60-100 acres. 1 is a chicken and sheep farm and the other 2 keep sheep so as you can appreciate they are not a fan of foxes. All three have had issues over the years so want the numbers reducing. Off out last night just as it was getting dark. Arrived at farm one, adjusted the IR on the N750A and had a quick look to see a fox trotting off across the field about 300 yards away. No shot presented itself so I set the caller up for 10 minutes, still no sign. I checked the field behind me and caught a flash of bright eyes which was confirmed as a fox through the NV. Got ready for the shot but the fox disappeared into a dip in the field and never reappeared......not looking good. I walked the ground for 30 minutes with no more sightings and on my way back to the truck caught a glimpse of a pair of eyes. Checked through the NV and there was the fox curled up in a field. As I was having such good luck the fox was obscured by a large hedge so I couldnt get a shot despite wandering all across the bank trying to find a gap in the trees. I called for a bit but still no clear shot. Finally I managed to get into position but by this time the fox had lost interest and was heading off across the field. I gave one final squeak and stopped her at 180 yards and sent a 80 grain soft point on its way....off she ran...not impressed. Reloaded and followed her through the scope for about 50 yards to see her fall over stone dead. The round had struck her side on straight through the chest so pretty well a perfect shot. Once I have used the soft points I will be moving to 58 grain varmint x rounds as I have had a few run off to perfectly placed shots in the last 6 months. The fox was a vixen and a milky one at that. I would estimate she has had cubs in the last 2 weeks. Unfortunately if you are serious about fox control this is going to happen. I have no idea where her den is and given the amount of badger sets that are active I dont think I will be trying to put terriers down. I am sure some of the keyboard warriors will come out with the usual comments, please take no offence if I decline to respond to these. Thanks for reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 A good write up Mike, and a dilemma that I have faced in the past, and I'm sure, many other's have too. I shot a milky Vixen a few years ago, but didn't have a clue where her den was. Sad, but one of those things that could happen. There's always someone else who would be willing to shoot the foxes , with cubs or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted April 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 A good write up Mike, and a dilemma that I have faced in the past, and I'm sure, many other's have too. I shot a milky Vixen a few years ago, but didn't have a clue where her den was. Sad, but one of those things that could happen. There's always someone else who would be willing to shoot the foxes , with cubs or otherwise. Cheers Steve. I suppose the fact that I think about it means I do possess some morals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bala Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 A good honest write up. Look at it this way, how many fox shooters can say it is a milky vixon at a 180yds through night vision. If you wasnt controlling the foxes on that permission, someone would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kippylawkid Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Very honest, informative account. As you said, The farmer isn't interested in the moral argument. You wouldn't be human if you didn't reflect on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted April 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 A good honest write up. Look at it this way, how many fox shooters can say it is a milky vixon at a 180yds through night vision. If you wasnt controlling the foxes on that permission, someone would be. Cheers mate. Very honest, informative account. As you said, The farmer isn't interested in the moral argument. You wouldn't be human if you didn't reflect on it. Thanks for your comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedge Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Nothing wrong with that. You're doing a job effectively. How would you have felt if the Vixen was carrying cubs? Any differently? You can't tell through NV and anyway, you could argue it's not your choice to make. Like you said, you are aware of it - so that's a good thing. Don't dwell on it. Good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Unfortunately, nothing you can do about it. I do make a definite effort to locate dens if at all possible. but when you're required to drop foxes, you drop foxes. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted April 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Nothing wrong with that. You're doing a job effectively. How would you have felt if the Vixen was carrying cubs? Any differently? You can't tell through NV and anyway, you could argue it's not your choice to make. Like you said, you are aware of it - so that's a good thing. Don't dwell on it. Good work. Cheers bud Unfortunately, nothing you can do about it. I do make a definite effort to locate dens if at all possible. but when you're required to drop foxes, you drop foxes. End of story. Well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Good shooting Mike if it was a nest of rats nobody would care if they got to go then go they must because some other shooter will do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 No different to pigeons that have their parents shot. It's unfortunate, but that's just the way it goes. Keep at them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXHUNTER1 Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Its certainly a moral dilemma Mike , but only the person behind the rifle can make that decision and stand by it. I also shoot foxes all year round that's why its called control. I received a call last night regarding a lamb killer so there is a job to do , if its a milky vixen so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnie Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Once we stop being aware of what effect it has it's time to pack up. not all that needs to be done is pleasant. Well done keep at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 You may find that there are other vixens feeding the cubs or even laat years young coming back. Its never nice knowing they maybe without mum and i know some people who wont shoot cubs, yet next year happily shoot them at a year or two old. Perfctly normal to think what you do, after all we are human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dob Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 If this issue of ethics was the thin end of the wedge then the only fair outcome would be to have seasons for shooting foxes but that not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 I've known of barren vixens/vixens that have lost or haven't had Cubs, feeding abandoned Cubs as well as the dogs coming and feeding them if they're eating meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 I've known of barren vixens/vixens that have lost or haven't had Cubs, feeding abandoned Cubs as well as the dogs coming and feeding them if they're eating meat. Both very true, but if not you are stuffed. What I do not understand if this feeling that if I do not shoot them someone else will, that is not always true is it? I will add some effort should be made to find the cubs, so there are badgers on the ground, so what ? Do not go near the setts, the cubs could be anywhere, possibly in a sett, but equally possible that they are not. Got to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Also if she has cubs then where you shot her wont be far from where they are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulnix Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 What I do not understand if this feeling that if I do not shoot them someone else will, that is not always true is it? If I do not shoot them then they will take a lamb, chicken or attack a new born calf should be what people think. Personally I not like the thought of shooting a nursing vixen but neither do I like the idea of her taking stock so I not hold back because the time of year she is nursing is also the time lambs are at the most vulnerable. Besides I also feel that if all the do gooders can sleep at night when they release city foxes into the country to starve then I can sleep knowing that I am helping to protect livestock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Thing is there's places I shoot that I wouldn't be allowed to take the terriers and places where even if I was allowed to take the terriers I could never dig them because it's over looked by do gooders and people that would like to get very upset. It's not nice that Mike can't get the Cubs but at 2 weeks old they'll slip into hypothermia very quickly and as far as natural causes go it's not such a bad way to go. If you're a regular pest controller like Mike it's unfortunately par for the course now and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 Thing is there's places I shoot that I wouldn't be allowed to take the terriers and places where even if I was allowed to take the terriers I could never dig them because it's over looked by do gooders and people that would like to get very upset. It's not nice that Mike can't get the Cubs but at 2 weeks old they'll slip into hypothermia very quickly and as far as natural causes go it's not such a bad way to go. If you're a regular pest controller like Mike it's unfortunately par for the course now and again. Mike has not been able to get to the cubs soley because he has not tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 I'm not keen on killing foxes at any time of year to be honest, simply because I think they're such bonny creatures. But the fact is I do, along with rabbits, corvids and all other pest species; because I cherish my shooting and want to keep the land I have. We can't blame the fox, or the pigeon, or the crow etc, they're just doing what they do to survive. It's just life, and life in the wild is unbelievably harsh and often painfully short I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted April 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 Mike has not been able to get to the cubs soley because he has not tried. I think that is a tad harsh given that you do not know the circumstances of the ground. As I said this is new ground and I am "on the back foot" so to speak as I havent got the luxury of time and as such I dont know the ground as well as I would like. However what is clear is that the foxes do not have a den on the ground itself, that is clear from the nature of the ground, the lack of cover and the lack of holes. There are 3 or 4 woods within 1/2 mile of the ground which are all possible spots but these are under "diverse ownership" and given the direction that the badgers seem to be heading there are also some good badger setts. I know that a couple of the land owners would not let anybody on their ground so what should I do? Do you think I should spend the next week trying to find a needle in a haystack, when I can only get access to half the haystack and probably the part filed with badgers? I appreciate that you may think I cant be bothered but I have to be realistic about the chances of finding the cubs, and the practicalities of dealing with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXHUNTER1 Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 I appreciate that you may think I cant be bothered but I have to be realistic about the chances of finding the cubs, and the practicalities of dealing with them. Exactly .....hit the nail on the head Mike . I wouldn't worry about what other people think as long as you are happy with your own conscience. We don't live in an ideal world but do the best we can. Finding cubs is not that easy ....over the years I've tried many times and failed. They are often on adjoining land or in deep cover in dug out rabbit holes in this part of the world plus as you say there is always the issue of badger settes etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 Mike has not been able to get to the cubs soley because he has not tried. That is a ridiculous statement. More like a statement some anti would come up with. I'd love to know just how much fox shooting you do for sheep/poultry farms. Care to enlighten us ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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