Farrage Resigns (again)

[pinfireman]

 

Gordon,

 

Jay, like most people on PW, has absolutely no resemblance to a troll. He is somewhat taller.

He does, however have very valid points on how Brexit personally affects him and his family, most of which I have great sympathy with.

 

We have no idea, yet, which way this vote will pan out and many on both sides of a relatively balanced result may well regret which way they voted.

 

Disagreement with your arguments is not trolling

Putting your pocket first, and not your country, is hardly patriotic! Many of us may suffer temporary financial hardship over Brexit, but we put country first, NOT pocket!

amateur - you have a point.

 

However, Jaymo will not be pressed on just how many he would allow in. Given the figures he cites and his views on the subject, I find it more than odd.

 

I consider him to be trolling. I disagree with many people on here and I am sure the same is true of my views. I do not regard them as trolls.

C,mon Jaymo, give us a figure....! Stand up and be counted!

[mick miller]

I'm not sure having a difference of opinion constitutes trolling either. That's what healthy debate is all about.

 

I'm also not sure how you could put an upper or lower figure on acceptable immigration. To my mind immigration should be relative to need, whatever that need might be.

[12gauge82]

I'm not sure having a difference of opinion constitutes trolling either. That's what healthy debate is all about.

 

I'm also not sure how you could put an upper or lower figure on acceptable immigration. To my mind immigration should be relative to need, whatever that need might be.

With regards eu migration 'need' is not what being part of the eu is about

[Scully]

 

 

I'm also not sure how you could put an upper or lower figure on acceptable immigration. To my mind immigration should be relative to need, whatever that need might be.

But EU immigration policy isn't dictated by need, it is dictated by.....what exactly? Open door policy? Anything other than an open door policy must logically imply a control of some kind. If there is control, then how many is enough? 50,000? 500,000? 5,000,000? And if any of these figures are reached then what? Shut the doors and raise the drawbridge? Will others stop coming once those figures are reached? Just what number exactly does anyone have in mind, if any figure at all?

[Rimfireboy]

But EU immigration policy isn't dictated by need, it is dictated by.....what exactly? Open door policy? Anything other than an open door policy must logically imply a control of some kind. If there is control, then how many is enough? 50,000? 500,000? 5,000,000? And if any of these figures are reached then what? Shut the doors and raise the drawbridge? Will others stop coming once those figures are reached? Just what number exactly does anyone have in mind, if any figure at all?

Good point, well put.

[Gordon R]

Scully - good point, but I think we passed the 5 million some time ago.

[Jaymo]

If having an opinion is being a Troll, then by that yardstick I am- but by that very definition then we all are.

Have noticed that anyone who,s opinion differs on this and another thread to the 'Brexiteeers' is called a troll --- got to laugh and think some people are being just s little toooooooo serious.

 

Whether my views are factually correct can also be taken in the same vein as are anybody's on here- there are so many conflicting reports of data that either one or none can be correct.

 

A two line reply or a well constructed four page reply does not change ones right to air their views, or be 'shot down' with every suggestion- after all you do keep mentioning Democracy

 

I came on here to place my outlook on the situation- not a slanging match, I have a wife for those,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Oh Gordon- I said in previous posts( obv the figures are only the ones bandied about publicly) that I was happy at that percentage.

Of those that arrive- how many have sought employment?

I believe you like to differentiate too between the various nations arriving, as maybe your prepared to tolerate a 'white hard worker' but not a different ethnicity?

Just reading between the lines.........

 

 

Seconds out- round three

If having an opinion is being a Troll, then by that yardstick I am- but by that very definition then we all are.

Have noticed that anyone who,s opinion differs on this and another thread to the 'Brexiteeers' is called a troll --- got to laugh and think some people are being just s little toooooooo serious.

 

Whether my views are factually correct can also be taken in the same vein as are anybody's on here- there are so many conflicting reports of data that either one or none can be correct.

 

A two line reply or a well constructed four page reply does not change ones right to air their views, or be 'shot down' with every suggestion- after all you do keep mentioning Democracy

 

I came on here to place my outlook on the situation- not a slanging match, I have a wife for those,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Oh Gordon- I said in previous posts( obv the figures are only the ones bandied about publicly) that I was happy at that percentage.

Of those that arrive- how many have sought employment?

I believe you like to differentiate too between the various nations arriving, as maybe your prepared to tolerate a 'white hard worker' but not a different ethnicity?

Just reading between the lines.........

 

 

Seconds out- round three

[Gordon R]

I believe you like to differentiate too between the various nations arriving, as maybe your prepared to tolerate a 'white hard worker' but not a different ethnicity?

Just reading between the lines.........

 

 

Jaymo - you need to learn to read before you start reading between the lines. Just where did colour of someone's skin enter the debate? The comment is inaccurate and a disgrace. Don't judge others by your own pathetic standards.

 

Whatever your support from others, I regard you as a troll.

[Scully]

I follow the dictionary definition as regards trolling. I like debate; it is helpful and democratically healthy, but both sides have to contribute for it to be a debate.

Excellent examples of undemocratic debate occurred during the referendum debate when those who would ask Farage a question would then shout over his reply ( usually 'racist') so his reply couldn't be heard. I was very surprised and more than a little angered when during a question time episode none other than Eddy Izzard did exactly this to Farage.

You can't have a debate if no one answers a question, whether it be on the political stage or PW.

[Rewulf]

If having an opinion is being a Troll, then by that yardstick I am- but by that very definition then we all are.

Have noticed that anyone who,s opinion differs on this and another thread to the 'Brexiteeers' is called a troll --- got to laugh and think some people are being just s little toooooooo serious.

 

I think the problem is that 'remain arguments seem to come from some moral and intellectual high ground,as your insinuation further down implies.

Its a road well trod down this debate,and a sad reflection of how people see each other in these times.

I wouldnt mind if the arguments made any sort of sense, most seem to be copied from the pages of the guardian.

Whats wrong with a bit of lateral thinking ?

 

Whether my views are factually correct can also be taken in the same vein as are anybody's on here- there are so many conflicting reports of data that either one or none can be correct.

 

As above,a fact is not a fact,just because it has come from your favorite (heavily biased ) rag or website.

 

A two line reply or a well constructed four page reply does not change ones right to air their views, or be 'shot down' with every suggestion- after all you do keep mentioning Democracy

'

You only get shot down if you talk BS, there are plenty on here who do not follow PW 'status quo' who do not get shot down,because they have rational debate.

 

I came on here to place my outlook on the situation- not a slanging match, I have a wife for those,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

At the end of the day,I dont come on here to set the world to rights,its educational ,and entertaining.

 

Oh Gordon- I said in previous posts( obv the figures are only the ones bandied about publicly) that I was happy at that percentage.

Of those that arrive- how many have sought employment?

I believe you like to differentiate too between the various nations arriving, as maybe your prepared to tolerate a 'white hard worker' but not a different ethnicity?

Just reading between the lines.........

 

Well I dont think he insinuated anything of the sort,just goes to show how you think.

 

 

 

[MrM]

As you are well aware, in Parliament, there is a large majority AGAINST Brexit, so passing it to them is as good as denying the people their wishes.....and well you know that......

 

What I do know is that when we had the referendum there were 479 MPs who declared for Remain and 158 for Leave. Now what you, I or anyone else, don't know is how they will vote when the Bill to repeal the European Communities Act 1972 is put before Parliament, which is has to be before the EU will accept Article 50. If they stick to how they voted (or said they voted) in the referendum, then the Bill will be defeated . Your guess is as good as mine what would happen there after.

[sportsbob]

 

For more accurate figures, go to Migration Watch.....they are usually right, and prove government figures as being laughable!

 

Thanks for the tip http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/population

 

Also found this http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/november-2015/sty-net-migration.html

 

After doing the calculation to find the percentage for net migration http://www.mathematics-monster.com/lessons/percentages_how_to_express_one_number_as_a_percentage_of_another_number.html using the figure from the second link I come up with this.

 

336000 x 100 = 33600000 then divide by 65000000 gives the net migration figure as 0.5169% so in simple terms half of one percent instead of the twothousandths of one percent which is more than 250 times greater than Jaymo quoted.

Edited July 6, 2016 by sportsbob

[mick miller]

Whether members of Parliament have to vote on Article 50, or whether it can be invoked by the current Prime Minister is open to interpretation and the subject of current legal analysis. That is, unless I am unaware of a recent decision on that?

Edited July 6, 2016 by mick miller

[oowee]

How many illegally overstayed? How many are "bogus"? No one is saying that foreign students should not come to the UK to study, provided that A. they do not take a place that could have been given to a British student, and B. They leave immediately after completing thier course, unless they have a skill we need. And student figures are being used as a smokescreen....we are talking about economic migrants, bogus asylum seekers (United Nations states that they should seek shelter in the FIRST safe country they come to, not cross 2 continents to get here!) and illegals.

For more accurate figures, go to Migration Watch.....they are usually right, and prove government figures as being laughable!

My point being you said we are not interested in net migration figures. Its laughable to look at gross when students make up a huge part of the equation. Your assertion to only consider gross figures is preposterous.

[MrM]

Whether members of Parliament have to vote on Article 50, or whether it can be invoked by the current Prime Minister is open to interpretation and the subject of current legal analysis. That is, unless I am unaware of a recent decision on that?

My understanding (and there is no guarantee I'm right!) is whether the PM invoking Article 50 would invalidate the European Communities Act or not. Some legal views I have seen and read state that Parliament would still have to repeal that Act, others say they wouldn't have to. Its that Act that is key to the whole thing.

 

What I have heard is that the EU under the Lisbon Treaty may not accept a directive from the PM without the legal situation being clarified. So basically long legal battles lining the pockets of lawyers. So much for Democracy.

Edited July 6, 2016 by MrM

[MrM]

 

Thanks for the tip http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/population

 

Also found this http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/november-2015/sty-net-migration.html

 

After doing the calculation to find the percentage for net migration http://www.mathematics-monster.com/lessons/percentages_how_to_express_one_number_as_a_percentage_of_another_number.html using the figure from the second link I come up with this.

 

336000 x 100 = 33600000 then divide by 65000000 gives the net migration figure as 0.5169% so in simple terms half of one percent instead of the twothousandths of one percent which is more than 250 times greater than Jaymo quoted.

I think you might find that 33,600,000 / 65,000,000 is just over 50% not .5%!

[Rewulf]

I think you might find that 33,600,000 / 65,000,000 is just over 50% not .5%!

 

0.51692 according to google calculator.

[Bazooka Joe]

I believe you like to differentiate too between the various nations arriving, as maybe your prepared to tolerate a 'white hard worker' but not a different ethnicity?

Just reading between the lines.........

 

 

Back to the race card again, IMO remainers have lost the debate once they mention it...bit of a last resort punch line..

[Vince Green]

Whether members of Parliament have to vote on Article 50, or whether it can be invoked by the current Prime Minister is open to interpretation and the subject of current legal analysis. That is, unless I am unaware of a recent decision on that?

Who ever the PM is at the time they would be mad not to put it through parliament

[AVB]

 

0.51692 according to google calculator.

Which is 51.692%. Your formula is wrong though. Why are you multiplying by 100. Edited July 6, 2016 by AVB

[rodp]

 

Back to the race card again, IMO remainers have lost the debate once they mention it...bit of a last resort punch line..

It makes you laugh when they have to resort to that doesn't it It's got to the stage where you just wait for it now

 

 

:lol:

[Rewulf]

Which is 51.692%. Your formula is wrong though. Why are you multiplying by 100.

 

Not my formula ,I just put the numbers in

[Jaymo]

Just to clarify my awful maths ( no excuse I'm afraid)

I did put down 0.002 followed by the percentage symbol.

Call it brain fade after putting in a 21hr day

So it does work out as either decimal 0.002 or .2of a percent- close to the other .5 of a percent that someone else came up with ( difference being between net and gross migration)- so not 250 times bigger after all.

 

So I apologise to all mathematicians out there

[Danger-Mouse]

 

What I do know is that when we had the referendum there were 479 MPs who declared for Remain and 158 for Leave. Now what you, I or anyone else, don't know is how they will vote when the Bill to repeal the European Communities Act 1972 is put before Parliament, which is has to be before the EU will accept Article 50. If they stick to how they voted (or said they voted) in the referendum, then the Bill will be defeated . Your guess is as good as mine what would happen there after.

 

Not entirely accurate (at least as I understand it).

 

The legal challenge currently being put forward suggests that a Bill must be passed to allow the PM to invoke Article 50. Opposition suggests that the PM may use Royal Perogative to do so without a Bill being passed.

 

Should Parliament vote to repeal the 1972 Act then that would immediately pull us out of the EU and any later legislation passed under the auspices of that Act would also be effectively repealed.

 

The expected or at least preferred course of action would be to invoke Article 50. Spend 2 years negotiating our exit and then at the end of that period repeal the 1972 Act.

 

I would expect a 3 line whip on the vote so only serious rebels would act against it. As already discussed MPs refusing to vote in line with the wishes of the public on this matter would be potentially commiting political suicide.

[sportsbob]

If you use the maths in links I have provided then you will get the .51 %, and to jaymo in the links I have provided the national statistics clearly state the figures are NET so it is .51% which is 250 times greater than the grossly misleading figures you gave.

 

quote "

Net migration to the UK was estimated to be 336,000 in the year ending June 2015 "