The Badger Cull

[joe soapy]

Think many of us would accept a sett test for TB, with a positive result initiating destruction of that community

[Sha Bu Le]

Think many of us would accept a sett test for TB, with a positive result initiating destruction of that community

But not the Packhams and Mays of this world and of course their totally misguided disciples.

[scotslad]

Is bTB in badgers not 1 of these diseases they reckon is a sign of overcrowding or stress? Think i had read that somewhere, but there is so much out there u never know wot is true

 

So in at a healthy density badgers would never display it

[Sha Bu Le]

A fair comment Scotslad, don't / didn't we see a similar thing in some deer species? Over population, hunger, disease. Don't know if this is still the case.

[norfolk dumpling]

Another worry with the growing badger numbers is expansion into areas where few existed before. We are seeing more in East Anglia for example. Road kill badgers are a daily event as I drive about and I've seen 3 or 4 on some days. These are usually beside new road systems which suggests they could be established colonies who have not done their green cross code. They have also turned up on shoots recently where none have been seen before.

[ShootingEgg]

Another worry with the growing badger numbers is expansion into areas where few existed before. We are seeing more in East Anglia for example. Road kill badgers are a daily event as I drive about and I've seen 3 or 4 on some days. These are usually beside new road systems which suggests they could be established colonies who have not done their green cross code. They have also turned up on shoots recently where none have been seen before.

Talking of road kill I saw two this morning not 50yards apart, one on gutter and one in middle of the road.

[ShootingEgg]

[Twistedsanity]

I think confusion reigns regarding the effectiveness of the cull, to be honest. There are claims and counter claims on both sides of the fence, and until we get both sides to sit down in a public debate, where both sides are allowed ( without shouting down ) to put across their views and present facts, confusion will continue to reign.

It's no good so called celebrities from either side giving their views; they aren't scientists. What we need is an open and public debate by those in the know instead of those with an agenda.

I have to admit I hear conflicting 'facts' on a daily basis almost and I genuinely don't know who is telling the truth. Opposing sides can't both be right.

The voice of common sense, a very rare thing where this badger cull is concerned

[old man]

Think many of us would accept a sett test for TB, with a positive result initiating destruction of that community

I'll hold your coat while you examine them?

[bluesj]

If anyone is interested in may be helping find out some info on TB in badgers http://www.surrey.ac.uk/vet/pathology-services/testing-roadkill-badgers-for-bovine-tb

you can register as collector and get paid 10 quid per badger you bring in

[wymberley]

If anyone is interested in may be helping find out some info on TB in badgers http://www.surrey.ac.uk/vet/pathology-services/testing-roadkill-badgers-for-bovine-tb

you can register as collector and get paid 10 quid per badger you bring in

I was one of only two people at a time doing this some 15 years ago. I worked for the Central Science Laboratory - a Defra agency. My colleague covered the west midlands while I did Cornwall, Devon and Dorset. Being a government project, protocol was comprehensive and adhered to. We were notified by various groups - the police, farmers, district and county councils, etc, etc - plus ones we found ourselves - of their location and on arrival they would be bagged and tagged with the precise location recorded using GPS and then taken to one of several veterinary laboratories for post mortem examination. Those which we decided were not fit for purpose - too badly damaged or somewhat 'high' would be bagged and the district council advised of the location for them to collect. I would firmly recommend that anyone thinking about doing this in any shape or form gets along to his GP with possible referral to the local TB clinic before starting. I would be very surprised if this wasn't specified in the protocol mentioned in the link.

[bigrob]

Is bTB in badgers not 1 of these diseases they reckon is a sign of overcrowding or stress? Think i had read that somewhere, but there is so much out there u never know wot is true

 

So in at a healthy density badgers would never display it

Put simply - because they have been protected for so long and have no predators their numbers have got out of proportion - which as you say causes disease.

[bluesj]

I was one of only two people at a time doing this some 15 years ago. I worked for the Central Science Laboratory - a Defra agency. My colleague covered the west midlands while I did Cornwall, Devon and Dorset. Being a government project, protocol was comprehensive and adhered to. We were notified by various groups - the police, farmers, district and county councils, etc, etc - plus ones we found ourselves - of their location and on arrival they would be bagged and tagged with the precise location recorded using GPS and then taken to one of several veterinary laboratories for post mortem examination. Those which we decided were not fit for purpose - too badly damaged or somewhat 'high' would be bagged and the district council advised of the location for them to collect. I would firmly recommend that anyone thinking about doing this in any shape or form gets along to his GP with possible referral to the local TB clinic before starting. I would be very surprised if this wasn't specified in the protocol mentioned in the link.

We've only had one person pick up a badger collection kit so far

[gaffertoo]

Why dont they let the farmers just get on with it ,to many of them about and the May from Queen soon of his land fast enough

[joe soapy]

I'll hold your coat while you examine them?

 

dont need to hold coat!, the settside test picks up on the disease from the ground and toilet areas.

An infected badger is excreting the bug just about everywhere it travels. This is the problem with badgers, they have no defence

against the disease, something they share with Alpaca's and possums. Most animals have a mechanism to isolate

the disease and can contain it in a state of limbo, but will re emerge if the animal is under stress. People can be infected but show little sign,

then 20 years later stress can trigger it

[Adge Cutler]

The only way to stop badgers getting Bovine TB is for the cull to be a total extermination of the species.

 

All they do is move in from other areas.

 

I think it should be left to the Beef and Dairy farmers to keep their pastures clear of Badgers at a local level.

 

I know of one farmer ( not in Glos I might add ) who has exterminated every badger on his 700 acre farm clandestinely by gassing, shooting and destroying their sets for the last 40 years !! I can say unequivocally there are no badgers on his land nor anywhere near it and hasn't been for about 4 years.

 

Yet earlier last year two of his home bred stock showed markers for BTB.. how can this be the case...?

 

Can only be another carrier ?

 

Culling of badgers may be effective short term but long term control of BTB will require control of the wildlife carriers and vaccination of all cattle.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Adge Cutler

[Walker570]

The only way to stop badgers getting Bovine TB is for the cull to be a total extermination of the species.

 

All they do is move in from other areas.

 

I think it should be left to the Beef and Dairy farmers to keep their pastures clear of Badgers at a local level.

 

I know of one farmer ( not in Glos I might add ) who has exterminated every badger on his 700 acre farm clandestinely by gassing, shooting and destroying their sets for the last 40 years !! I can say unequivocally there are no badgers on his land nor anywhere near it and hasn't been for about 4 years.

 

Yet earlier last year two of his home bred stock showed markers for BTB.. how can this be the case...?

 

Can only be another carrier ?

 

Culling of badgers may be effective short term but long term control of BTB will require control of the wildlife carriers and vaccination of all cattle.

I was living on a dairy farm back in the 50s when TB testing came in. We had no badgers on our land at all, no deer and very few foxes but occasionally we would get a reactor. It was never explained where this came from, how that particular animal came to have the TB. I know today, some dairy farmers are getting really concerned about the TB spreading into the deer population and on one or two have asked me to shoot every one I see. I remember the Head keeper on a big estate down in Gloucestershire telling me how some 15% of the deer they were shooting on the estate had TB.

 

The original act was brought in with the aim of stopping badger baiting but was badly worded. My view is badgers should go back on the vermin list along with foxes and we are not short of them are we ? BUT the law should be upgraded to cover the offence of badger baiting and first offence penalty of five years added for ANY association with the activity. Country people have always tolerated having a few badgers about as they have with foxes and country people would ensure the healthy future. It is a fact that the explosion in numbers has had a very detrimental effect on many species. Certainly the hedgehog but also any ground nesting birds and bumble bees. I have had as many as 15 bees nests dug up on my ground in a year along with any wasps nests and yes wasps are part of nature, placed there for some reason and in the middle of a wood cause absolutely no problems but are favourite second course for Biffo after he has eaten the nest full of grey partridge eggs. Our legislators just don't have the balls to see the situation requires attention.

[Redgum]

I have been amazed by the actual amount of badgers there are even when you hardly see any. One of my permissions is on a 400 acre farm which came into the original Glos cull zone, I have lamped over the ground, sat in high seats at first and last light for over eight years and only seen a handful of badgers. The farmer owner tells me they have cull operatives have shot and trapped 40 badgers over the last three years. Might start to see a few more hedgehogs around now then.

[Scully]

The question of raiding bees and wasps nests is a valid point also.

An abandoned railway dissects our rough shoot and its hard packed cinder and cobble track is riddled with holes where badgers have dug out wasp and bee nests. They are about the only creature with the means to be able to dig through that stuff.

[activeviii]

I have been amazed by the actual amount of badgers there are even when you hardly see any. One of my permissions is on a 400 acre farm which came into the original Glos cull zone, I have lamped over the ground, sat in high seats at first and last light for over eight years and only seen a handful of badgers. The farmer owner tells me they have cull operatives have shot and trapped 40 badgers over the last three years. Might start to see a few more hedgehogs around now then.

Funny you should say that, just yesterday I was talking to a farmer, he has been on the cull from the start. I have only ever seen 2 badgers in 7 years. The guy that shooting the cull has taken 14 in the first week off the land, done his quota so now moved on.

What's thought is that there is a set on the land next door that wouldn't allow the shooting on the land due to pressure from antis, there is a massive set on there so it's thought that they have just moved in to less cramped quarters

 

When does the cull finish in Gloucestershire, anyone know. PM dates if it's hush hush.

[tonker]

Let's be honest there are just to many badgers about now. A Farmer friend of mine has lost acres of maize over the last two years. I've watched them teaching young to walk up the plants until there weight bends them and then they get the cobs.( through Night vision) **** law the crop is not fit to harvest at that time.

The other night I was up by one of the pens at the shoot, and saw 9 on the edge of the wood. last night I was out looking for a fox and saw 4 in one field by a poultry unit, and then drove to another farm and saw another 3 on a field of maize stubble harvested that day by the said Farmer.

It has always seemed to me that once you protect a species, it alters the balance of nature, look at the amount of Buzzards there are about now ( but then that is another topic)

I agree that the answer would be to let the farmers sort the problem on there own farms, or get people to do it for them, if the so desired. Perhaps that's to simplistic but makes sense to me.

[wymberley]

I was living on a dairy farm back in the 50s when TB testing came in. We had no badgers on our land at all, no deer and very few foxes but occasionally we would get a reactor. It was never explained where this came from, how that particular animal came to have the TB. I know today, some dairy farmers are getting really concerned about the TB spreading into the deer population and on one or two have asked me to shoot every one I see. I remember the Head keeper on a big estate down in Gloucestershire telling me how some 15% of the deer they were shooting on the estate had TB.

 

The original act was brought in with the aim of stopping badger baiting but was badly worded. My view is badgers should go back on the vermin list along with foxes and we are not short of them are we ? BUT the law should be upgraded to cover the offence of badger baiting and first offence penalty of five years added for ANY association with the activity. Country people have always tolerated having a few badgers about as they have with foxes and country people would ensure the healthy future. It is a fact that the explosion in numbers has had a very detrimental effect on many species. Certainly the hedgehog but also any ground nesting birds and bumble bees. I have had as many as 15 bees nests dug up on my ground in a year along with any wasps nests and yes wasps are part of nature, placed there for some reason and in the middle of a wood cause absolutely no problems but are favourite second course for Biffo after he has eaten the nest full of grey partridge eggs. Our legislators just don't have the balls to see the situation requires attention.

That's not too clever - it is the same approximate percentage that the last badger carcass survey indicated that that is the figure for which badgers had or carried the disease. Haven't a clue what it is now though.

 

Let's be honest there are just to many badgers about now. A Farmer friend of mine has lost acres of maize over the last two years. I've watched them teaching young to walk up the plants until there weight bends them and then they get the cobs.( through Night vision) **** law the crop is not fit to harvest at that time.

The other night I was up by one of the pens at the shoot, and saw 9 on the edge of the wood. last night I was out looking for a fox and saw 4 in one field by a poultry unit, and then drove to another farm and saw another 3 on a field of maize stubble harvested that day by the said Farmer.

It has always seemed to me that once you protect a species, it alters the balance of nature, look at the amount of Buzzards there are about now ( but then that is another topic)

I agree that the answer would be to let the farmers sort the problem on there own farms, or get people to do it for them, if the so desired. Perhaps that's to simplistic but makes sense to me.

Clever with it too - they usually go in a few yards before they started so you couldn't see the damage from the field margin. Often we'd come across it by looking for pigeon dropped while shooting from an adjacent field. One farming owner of a large estate in Dorset told me (I'd gone to collect a carcass but it had been through the cutter so was of no use) that in addition to the protection laws he was convinced that the territorial spread was linked to the increase in popularity of maize as fodder.

[joe soapy]

When herds that are normally testing clear go down, its often down to a single "rogue super excreater" infected badger thats been

driven from its home by the rest of the badgers. A rogue will travel miles looking for an easy source of food and a home

and have a devastating effect in an otherwise clean area