whitehackle Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 He has to pay his self for the time he spends quoting for jobs and not getting them! People on salaries don't have to quote jobs for free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 my favourite part ? "appointed them" Sorry OP but customer from hell springs to mind. Plumber had a lucky escape me thinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Perhaps you should have a go at the job yourself and ring this Guy if it goes wrong ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav05 Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 So 60 less the vat =50 then the apprentice is on say £60 a day so with the van costs say it's lease van and the insurance tax and public liability insurance etc it's not people need to earn a living. So £50 x8 hr day =£400 less £60 for the lad who would be a asset to get it done in 8hrs fetching from the van clearing up etc and learning. Then take the daily running costs of a business plus the 1.5 hrs for quote so less running costs mine are aprox £60 a day so that's down to £280 so ÷ 8 =£35 per hr right now take you car to a garage do you quibble that? Small business need can't work for free take the 4 weeks in paid holidays out all the hours extra worked. Do some maths. So 60 less the vat =50 then the apprentice is on say £60 a day so with the van costs say it's lease van and the insurance tax and public liability insurance etc it's not people need to earn a living. So £50 x8 hr day =£400 less £60 for the lad who would be a asset to get it done in 8hrs fetching from the van clearing up etc and learning. Then take the daily running costs of a business plus the 1.5 hrs for quote so less running costs mine are aprox £60 a day so that's down to £280 so ÷ 8 =£35 per hr right now take you car to a garage do you quibble that? Small business need can't work for free take the 4 weeks in paid holidays out all the hours extra worked. Do some maths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) Edited October 12, 2016 by silver pigeon69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted October 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) the joys of the salaried people being on 50 grand a year moaning about the self employed making a living and working 14+ hours a day . you have had a quote except it or go else where , that's the idea of having the quote surely Talk about the moaning of life lol Sorry Magman - I am self employed and have been for 14 years mate - I have done the lot so you are preaching to the converted. Edited October 12, 2016 by discobob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted October 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 He has to pay his self for the time he spends quoting for jobs and not getting them! People on salaries don't have to quote jobs for free see my reply above - I have the same problem - but I travel nation wide - if you don't like it get a salaried job - go work for a company and get your 4 weeks holiday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted October 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 So 60 less the vat =50 then the apprentice is on say £60 a day so with the van costs say it's lease van and the insurance tax and public liability insurance etc it's not people need to earn a living. So £50 x8 hr day =£400 less £60 for the lad who would be a asset to get it done in 8hrs fetching from the van clearing up etc and learning. Then take the daily running costs of a business plus the 1.5 hrs for quote so less running costs mine are aprox £60 a day so that's down to £280 so ÷ 8 =£35 per hr right now take you car to a garage do you quibble that? Small business need can't work for free take the 4 weeks in paid holidays out all the hours extra worked. Do some maths. So 60 less the vat =50 then the apprentice is on say £60 a day so with the van costs say it's lease van and the insurance tax and public liability insurance etc it's not people need to earn a living. So £50 x8 hr day =£400 less £60 for the lad who would be a asset to get it done in 8hrs fetching from the van clearing up etc and learning. Then take the daily running costs of a business plus the 1.5 hrs for quote so less running costs mine are aprox £60 a day so that's down to £280 so ÷ 8 =£35 per hr right now take you car to a garage do you quibble that? Small business need can't work for free take the 4 weeks in paid holidays out all the hours extra worked. Do some maths. again - see my posts above - I know all about being self employed and unlike a lot of cash trades where a lot will be lucky to be declaring 50% to the taxman - every penny is accounted for and taxed etc..I wouldn't mind paying for an apprentice - but he isn't - his lad is apparently a plumber in his own right - to me it is looking to milk a cow - as I implied earlier - 2 men physically wouldnt be able to work in there - all pipes are in place - no soldering no nothing - fit only job.- oh - also you are jumping the gun - the guy isn't VAT registered I have plasterers coming in next week for 2 days - 2 men - lad and dad as well funny enough - and I am paying them their quote and have used them before and know their work - and will give them a tip as I have done previously because I believe they are under charging for the work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted October 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 so you want me3.jpg And I have paid top whack for jobs that have been left dangerous by supposed experts - and I mean a proper risk to life - one I rectified myself - the other cost me £2.5k to put right Just because somebody charges a lot does not mean that they are good - and vice versa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted October 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 I seem to have rubbed up some peoples backs with this thread - I think mainly down to people not reading my original post I feel So to recap The second guy is not an apprentice (hence the title of 2 plumbers The plumber said that the money was equal for him and his son The space the work is being carried out in is limited and it would not be possible for two people to be able to work in there Tools needed - Drill, spanners, pipe slice, screwdriver No new pipes/plumbing - just connecting flexi's, waste etc.. Our system takes about 15 minutes to drain down - and there is a pipe to connect up to run it to a drain. No parts needed to be supplied Some people seem to think that I should give my hard earned cash away because somebody comes, sees the house and chances their arm - as I original come from a mining community and rough estate, and served Queen and country for 13 years - I know the value of money and I have to graft for what I get paid - and I get paid the same day rate if I do 8 hours or 18 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose man Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Pay peanuts , get monkeys ...use the professional...I've seen loads of " it's an easy job " cock ups .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) I begrudge paying top whack and getting monkeys. I've been lucky and found an excellent builder/heating engineer, however, friends and colleagues have endless tales of woe about (expensive) cowboys. Why is it so difficult to get well-qualified, trustworthy tradesmen? Is it any wonder that the OP is suspicious automatically, when there are more rip-off merchants than decent professionals out there? Edited October 13, 2016 by Flashman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollieollie Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 I no longer entertain this type of customer, i have become good at judging(on my initial visit) whether a person is going to be a suitable customer for me or a complete pain in the backside. A quote is a quote accept it or decline it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 And I have paid top whack for jobs that have been left dangerous by supposed experts - and I mean a proper risk to life - one I rectified myself - the other cost me £2.5k to put right Just because somebody charges a lot does not mean that they are good - and vice versa I wasn't having go at you, it was aimed at the posts who said "do it yourself". If you feel you need to get someone in to do a good job, then your probably right. Yes, just because you pay good money doesn't mean you will get a good job. i use many sub contractors, but alot of them only once!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted October 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 I wasn't having go at you, it was aimed at the posts who said "do it yourself". If you feel you need to get someone in to do a good job, then your probably right. Yes, just because you pay good money doesn't mean you will get a good job. i use many sub contractors, but alot of them only once!! Fully agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Years ago (over 17) some prize winky quoted me £700 to plumb in a bathroom. The only work to do was the water feed, hot and cold to WC, Bath and basin. Needless to say he didn't get anything from me. I would have rather him say he was too busy, forgot to mention,, he asked if I was interested in a new bathroom suite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 You asked for a price.you were given this.if the price was more than you wanted to pay then make other arrangements. What difference do you think it would make to the price if one man turned up to do the job or a dozen.i do not get every job I quote for but I can get more work than I can handle if I work for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remimax Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 if you win every job you quote for then your too cheap . anyone can be a busy fool . favorite customer quote "how much for cash". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del T Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 favorite customer quote "how much for cash". Next favourite quote : " I could do it myself but.........I'm too busy.......I've got a bad back...etc etc...." Price doubles then lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remimax Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) Next favourite quote : " I could do it myself but.........I'm too busy.......I've got a bad back...etc etc...." Price doubles then lol. lol or the old diy flat caper with a bit of know how looking over you shoulder all day. bit like having a pet parrot. anyway i think it was a fair quote for discobob. lets face it plumbers arrival on job requires instant red carpets and sprinkled rose petals which don't come cheap. Edited October 13, 2016 by Remimax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 And someone suggesting to labour for them, if that was me the price would go up. Absolutely. I have offers to labour for some jobs and i just laugh. You would spend half the day explaining all kinds of ***** and the price wouldnt be worth the paper its written on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 As a professional building services engineer i see a lot of this from both sides. people getting building work done in their homes seem to think that if the appropriate hourly wage for a tradesman is X that they should pay that X . Even if the tradesman is a sole trader and there is no company management or admin wages to be covered the tradesman will have costs related to his vehicle, tools, telephone, website. fees to statutory bodies /trade schemes, and statutory training in some cases. Also he will need allow for the time spent doing quotations. customer supplied materials also opens another can of worms to the tradesman. - Firstly it is very unlikely that the client will really have supplied all the materials required to complete the installation. The client may have supplied the bathroom suite and taps etc but will he supply the pipe, fittings, valves, pan connector,traps etc that are required or the consumables- gas/solder /flux/paste/mastic etc. Secondly if the client does supply all that was required, its probable that there will be some fitting or other that was either forgotten or that becomes apparent to be necessary during the course of the work. A trip out to a supplier during the day will add time to the job for the tradesman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollieollie Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 As a professional building services engineer i see a lot of this from both sides. people getting building work done in their homes seem to think that if the appropriate hourly wage for a tradesman is X that they should pay that X . Even if the tradesman is a sole trader and there is no company management or admin wages to be covered the tradesman will have costs related to his vehicle, tools, telephone, website. fees to statutory bodies /trade schemes, and statutory training in some cases. Also he will need allow for the time spent doing quotations. customer supplied materials also opens another can of worms to the tradesman. - Firstly it is very unlikely that the client will really have supplied all the materials required to complete the installation. The client may have supplied the bathroom suite and taps etc but will he supply the pipe, fittings, valves, pan connector,traps etc that are required or the consumables- gas/solder /flux/paste/mastic etc. Secondly if the client does supply all that was required, its probable that there will be some fitting or other that was either forgotten or that becomes apparent to be necessary during the course of the work. A trip out to a supplier during the day will add time to the job for the tradesman. I have a comprehensive set of T&C's which cover most situations which are agreed to by accepting my quotes, that being so these situations don't bother me as i have covered my bottom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLuke Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) I seem to have rubbed up some peoples backs with this thread - I think mainly down to people not reading my original post I feel So to recap The second guy is not an apprentice (hence the title of 2 plumbers The plumber said that the money was equal for him and his son The space the work is being carried out in is limited and it would not be possible for two people to be able to work in there Tools needed - Drill, spanners, pipe slice, screwdriver No new pipes/plumbing - just connecting flexi's, waste etc.. Our system takes about 15 minutes to drain down - and there is a pipe to connect up to run it to a drain. No parts needed to be supplied Some people seem to think that I should give my hard earned cash away because somebody comes, sees the house and chances their arm - as I original come from a mining community and rough estate, and served Queen and country for 13 years - I know the value of money and I have to graft for what I get paid - and I get paid the same day rate if I do 8 hours or 18 hours I'm not sure you're doing the whole self employed thing right.... Edited October 13, 2016 by LondonLuke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del T Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 customer supplied materials also opens another can of worms to the tradesman. - Firstly it is very unlikely that the client will really have supplied all the materials required to complete the installation . I get it often. Plumber :"have you checked the bathroom stuff you got from victoran bathrooms"? Customer: "yes checked everything" You get there on a Monday morning,everything is still boxed up. The basin is broke, wastes are missing and the latest one we had was no legs for the bath!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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