Court Rules Against Government: Article 50

[Adge Cutler]

I guess with hindsight we should have put on the ballot paper 'do you wish to leave the EU and sever ALL ties with the EU' then there would be no case for a "soft brexit".

You may well laugh…( I had a little chuckle in fact )

 

But perhaps we should have been made more aware of the timescales involved before voting as I believe many people thought it would be just a simple case of shut the door and last one out turn off the light.

[AVB]

My view.

 

1) it's all about interpretation.

2) when it goes to appeal the judges will take a different interpretation and the government will win.

 

 

If not then we need a revolution. If people feel strongly enough about it they should storm parliament. Let's have some blood running through the streets and then perhaps people will realise that it is serious. Or we just moan about it.

[Adge Cutler]

The appeal has not been heard, but Bremainers are gloating. If the law needs changing, it will get changed.

 

The Tories will stand or fall on their ability to deliver or face ridicule and a resurgent UKIP. .

Only ridicule by just over half the population some 10% of which would possible change there mind though...

 

Wouldn't it be Ironic if it subsequently had to go to the European Court of Justice. I can hear the classic Al Wilson track playing in the background " The Snake"

[TIGHTCHOKE]

The appeal has not been heard, but Bremainers are gloating. If the law needs changing, it will get changed.

 

The Tories will stand or fall on their ability to deliver or face ridicule and a resurgent UKIP. .

 

Come on King Nigel!

[Rewulf]

I for one was surprised how quickly the wheels were put in motion.

I expected heels to be dragged ,and , just this sort of thing to happen.

But once that result came in and the dust settled,even the politicos that backed remain got used to the idea.

And thats why this stunt is going to fail.

Its alright saying 'man the barricades' and 'storm the commons' but in reality 17.4 million voters are going to be pretty disgruntled that their will was ignored,or if it is not carried out quickly enough.

If you think this is going to drag on to the next general election,then think again.

If Brexit is not processed by this government,it most certainly will be by the next.

[anser2]

Quote "Its alright saying 'man the barricades' and 'storm the commons' but in reality 17.4 million voters are going to be pretty disgruntled that their will was ignored,or if it is not carried out quickly enough."

 

And 16.6 million voters will be pretty disgruntled if brexit comes to pass.

 

Many who voted for brexit did realy know how it was going to impact their lives. One guy i know voted for brexit just because he thought the Germans do not like us, another because he once had an argument with a French waitress who could not speak English. I do not like the French or germans myself much , but that's not a reason for Brexit. Others voted out because just because they beleved that the NHS was going to get the non existant 350 million a week and they are now pretty ****** off because the govenment has rules that out. Alass we are burning our bridges now very fast and we would look pretty foolish if we went back cap in hand to the EU, but if the vote was rerun today it would be far from certain to get the same result. We are entering an era where most things are going to cost a lot more its already started and its going to get a lot worse. Ok if you are rich enough to afford brexit , but for myself and many others it is only going to bring lower living standards. The referendum result was just a snapshot in time of public opinion and we all know how public opinion can change in a very short space in time.

Edited November 3, 2016 by anser2

[bluesj]

I think if the eu was a level playing field then there wouldn't have been a referendum in the first place

[Gordon R]

I love the way that people cite that many people might have voted differently. If only there was another vote. :lol:

 

Just how do they arrive at that quantum leap judgement?

Answer - wishful thinking and an inability to accept the will of the people.

Many more might also vote to leave now the predicted end to the World hasn't materialised.

[four-wheel-drive]

After listening to the Radio and TV today I am changing my mind I did think that it would be good for parliament as a hole should make the decision but I get the impression that there are to many people saying one thing but meaning another I tend to think the sooner that she can get this 50 thing going the better before they do there best to kick the hole thing in to the long grass I think that what we need is a TRUMP.

Edited November 3, 2016 by four-wheel-drive

[12gauge82]

Simple the law of the land is the law. It has nothing to do with democracy the law is the way our society is structured If we want to go around the law every time we did not agree with it then the mob rules. If you do not like the law then lobby your MP to change it. If he does not then do not vote for him at the next election , vote for an MP who will agree with your point of view. . That is the way democracy works not by mob rule.

The government don't seem to let little things like the law get in the way when it suits them though does it, I.e Iraq war etc funnily enough I was posting about this on the thread about the miners strike.

[Gordon R]

12gauge82 - oddly enough, I was thinking about the miners' strike thread. Some were suggesting that the Government acted outside the law - some thought it was justified.

 

The boot is on the other foot now. Bremainers pin their hopes on the law.

 

I think the Government will have this verdict overturned soon enough.

[islandgun]

After listening to the Radio and TV today I am changing my mind I did think that it would be good for parliament as a hole should make the decision but I get the impression that there are to many people saying one thing but meaning another I tend to think the sooner that she can get this 50 thing going the better before they do there best to kick the hole thing in to the long grass I think that what we need is a TRUMP.

 

[12gauge82]

12gauge82 - oddly enough, I was thinking about the miners' strike thread. Some were suggesting that the Government acted outside the law - some thought it was justified.

 

The boot is on the other foot now. Bremoaners pin their hopes on the law.

 

I think the Government will have this verdict overturned soon enough.

+1. I hope you don't mind but I adjusted your post very slightly

[UKPoacher]

The government don't seem to let little things like the law get in the way when it suits them though does it, I.e Iraq war etc funnily enough I was posting about this on the thread about the miners strike.

 

The problem with this situation is who are the Government? If the EU question had been voted on in Parliament rather than a referendum then Brexit would not have been passed. Most of the MPs would have voted to remain. Theresa May seems to have accepted that the British people want to leave the EU and seems to be making that happen. But she alone isn't 'the Government'.

 

Bliar concocted false evidence and presented it to sway the vote in Parliament. Thatcher sent secret messages to Police Commanders that weren't discovered until years later. Theresa May hasn't got those options so it is unlikely that 'The Government' can act outside the law and bulldoze Brexit through.

 

She can threaten a General Election after the Parliamentary vote to frighten those who might vote against it. If the public backlash is as great as people hope it will be then any MP voting to overturn a referendum would be on shaky ground in a snap election. That is my prediction.

[AVB]

Whilst some who voted out might change their mind there are probably many more who voted remain because of project fear. And they now realise that the world didn't come to an end.

[12gauge82]

Its becoming perfectly obvious there's no soft or hard brexit there's just brexit...

If the reasons for exiting the EU are, as many millions suggest, to regain sovereign control of domestic policy making, rather than have it decided in Brussels then why dont we just do it and leave. The other member states are not going to let us just run into the sweet shop and run out again with all the good stuff hard or soft, so we have absolutely nothing to lose.

 

Draw a line under Europe and walk away. I keep being told by brexit posters that it wont affect trade, finance or industry so lets just do it and put two fingers up to them. We still have the Commonwealth and the financial and industrial might of Tuvalu to fall back on. !

 

I think this whole episode has turned into a complete debacle and we are rapidly becoming even more disliked by Europe and a laughing stock around the world.

I quizzed an American solicitor friend yesterday on holiday over here, about the ridiculous political situation in America and having to choose between a crackpot misogynist and a crackpot misandrist as president his reply well you are the ones who recently got to the top of the board and chose to slide down the snake"

 

Personally I think this is going to take years, so long in fact we will never know whether the result of the referendum altered the face of British politics and commerce for the good or the worse. Most of us will be led in the cemetery pushing up daises.

Adge Cutler doesn't do politics

[Bazooka Joe]

but if the vote was rerun today it would be far from certain to get the same result.

 

 

On Sky news the other day two changed their minds from wanting to stay in the EU, to supporting the vote to leave, why does remainers always think the vote would go in their favour...

 

If this government don't delivery, & May holds an election, I can see the Tory's AWOL, UKIP then in with a chance...now there's a thought.

[Lloyd90]

Adge Cutler doesn't do politics

May as well open his old account backup, been in every political thread since he cameback!

 

BRING BACK FM!! Lol

[panoma1]

This is nothing to do with the vote to leave the EU..........the uncertainty this judgement has caused in the world will likely make the previously speculative financial disaster prophecies of the remain camp come true, I hope they are pleased with themselves? they are certainly crowing over it!..........they have now shown their true colours, that they are prepared to undermine the democratic will of the people, financially ruin the country and in consequence force down the standard of living of the people of the UK..........just to remain in the EU!...............Traitors one and all!

[Gordon R]

panoma1 - sadly, I have to totally agree. They are a sorry bunch.

 

 

She can threaten a General Election after the Parliamentary vote to frighten those who might vote against it. If the public backlash is as great as people hope it will be then any MP voting to overturn a referendum would be on shaky ground in a snap election. That is my prediction.

 

 

UKPoacher - an astute observation and not for the first time.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Gordon R

[panoma1]

Would Ms May be able to invoke the Parliament Act, as Bliar did when he couldn't get his way with the Hunting with Dogs Act?

[UKPoacher]

Would Ms May be able to invoke the Parliament Act, as Bliar did when he couldn't get his way with the Hunting with Dogs Act?

 

That was to overcome legislation being blocked by the House of Lords, not a legality.

[oisin og]

"Let's have some blood running through the streets and then perhaps people will realise that it is serious. Or we just moan about it"

 

No one, who has ever experienced civil conflict, would wish this upon their country. Well, perhaps a fool would.

 

The judgement was arrived at by the LCJ for England and Wales, the Master of the Rolls and a very senior judge. It is a relatively short judgement and a model of clarity. Hard to see the Supreme Court overturning it.

 

In essence the court reaffirmed that Parliament was sovereign. Is this not what those wishing to leave the EU wanted?

 

The PM has a small parliamentary majority and is vulnerable. She is understandably wary of introducing legislation allowing the triggering of Art. 50. Surely the solution is to accept the judgement of the Court and have a general election to get the necessary majority to pass the required legislation.

[Gordon R]

have a general election to get the necessary majority to pass the required legislation.

 

 

 

She already has the majority. Why she would gamble on increasing it is open to question.

 

The pathetic state of the Labour leadership - Corbyn and Abbott - might give her encouragement, but it would be UKIP who would inflict the damage on both parties.

[UKPoacher]

"Let's have some blood running through the streets and then perhaps people will realise that it is serious. Or we just moan about it"

 

No one, who has ever experienced civil conflict, would wish this upon their country. Well, perhaps a fool would.

 

The judgement was arrived at by the LCJ for England and Wales, the Master of the Rolls and a very senior judge. It is a relatively short judgement and a model of clarity. Hard to see the Supreme Court overturning it.

 

In essence the court reaffirmed that Parliament was sovereign. Is this not what those wishing to leave the EU wanted?

 

The PM has a small parliamentary majority and is vulnerable. She is understandably wary of introducing legislation allowing the triggering of Art. 50. Surely the solution is to accept the judgement of the Court and have a general election to get the necessary majority to pass the required legislation.

 

All you've missed in that succinct summary is that May has no political opposition given the dissarray of Labour and the Lib-Dems so Brexit would be the only show in town. A virtual re-run of the referendum.

 

The UK isn't the only country to have voted to leave the EU and is still in it.