Red-dot Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 ....or certain couriers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) The keys were just on a table in the kitchen downstairs, they weren't in a drawer or hidden in any way. They did look to be on a bunch of keys so its likely he'd just put them down when he'd came in the house. The visit was during the day so it isn't clear cut as to whether he just leaves them lying around overnight/all the time, he could've literally put them down to answer the door to the bailiffs. You don't get notice High Court bailiffs are coming and I doubt many people expect that someone will be hunting through your house every day. Once he knew there were 'strangers' in the house he should have made a beeline for them and secured them on his person, but I appreciate it was a stressful situation and that may not have been his first thought/been able to think clearly enough to get them. The program makers were completely wrong to show literally the route to the cabinet and where it was in the house IMO. Some quick Googling appears to show that they can indeed 'handle' firearms and they can seize them paperworkwise, but they need an RFD or police officer to physically remove them. https://thesheriffsoffice.com/articles/seizure-of-firearms Edited September 8, 2017 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Regarding securely and where the keys are kept:- For being prosecuted under the firearms act it doesn't matter what the licence holder thinks or even the police it's down solely to the judge on the day. Your guess is as good as mine on how they would see it. For licence revocation again it doesn't matter what the licence holder thinks but it's solely down to the police as they don't have to ask a judges opinion at all. If they think the drawer is not good enough bye bye licence. To get your licence back is solely the opinion of a judge again, but that's going to cost you a pretty penny and costs are not awarded unless the police have acted unreasonable. The bar is set very high for unreasonable, I know of two successful wins against revocation but no costs awarded. If your cabinet is forced open it is deemed you have done your job under the act regardless of how quick the thief did it. If your cabinet is opened with a key questions are going to be asked. Trying to prove it took the thief 20 mins instead of 5 to find them is going to be a tall order. For a prosecution you would probably convince a judge and also the police would have to prove its case that the keys were easily found. However for revocation the chief officer of police doesn't need proof just that he/she is not satisfied you took reasonable care. This is why revocations are a lot more common than prosecutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 As a quick aside, the law states that you have to keep your keys in a place that is not known, or is inaccessible to anyone else in the house. It doesn't say that you have to hide them all the time if you are the only one there. For all we know he may leave the keys on the table whilst in the house, but take them with him when he goes out. That's what I always do (take them with me that is, not leave them on the table ) Does anyone know if he lives alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 No, his wife lives with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Its quite simple. You hide your keys in a very un obvious place, you do not allow anyone incl the Mrs to see you get them. You don't leave them hanging around on a table. Get keys unlock cabinet, get guns out, lock cabinet, put keys back in hidey hole. I once politely asked the feo not to follow me out of the room whilst I got my keys, he was very impressed with this. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Some of the replies on this thread are laughable, I keep my safe keys on my car keys so when im in the house they will be stuck in the door lock. You dont need to hide them all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Some of the replies on this thread are laughable, I keep my safe keys on my car keys so when im in the house they will be stuck in the door lock. You dont need to hide them all the time. With respect I don't like the idea of key in door Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB525 Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) Some of the replies on this thread are laughable, I keep my safe keys on my car keys so when im in the house they will be stuck in the door lock. You dont need to hide them all the time. I do the same although I don't leave keys in the door. I have one key "hidden" and the other on My car keys. My car keys go everywhere with me (also my house keys). If my wife borrows my car (some bell end on here used this as a reason for not putting your cabinet key on your car keys) then she takes the spare key. Simple. And the most secure way to do it. Then when I'm out, both keys physically aren't in the house. And a thief would have to use other means to open the cabinet. Edited September 8, 2017 by BrowningB525 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) Some of the replies on this thread are laughable, I keep my safe keys on my car keys so when im in the house they will be stuck in the door lock. You dont need to hide them all the time.I fancy a laugh too so why don't you email your FLD and let them know that everyone inside your house can access you keys any time they want as well as anyone that gets invited into the house, that'll be a right jape! 😄 Yes some people in here go to extremes - I seem to remember a while someone claiming they have their keys on them "at all times" including when they go in the shower 😂, but unless you're Billy no mates and there's no one else in your house with you or everyone has their own FAC/SGC it's unlikely you're going to get a favourable reply to the above! Edited September 8, 2017 by Breastman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-dot Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 I hide mine in the hoover, she will never find them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 I fancy a laugh too so why don't you email your FLD and let them know that everyone inside your house can access you keys any time they want as well as anyone that gets invited into the house, that'll be a right jape! 😄 Yes some people in here go to extremes - I seem to remember a while someone claiming they have their keys on them "at all times" including when they go in the shower 😂, but unless you're Billy no mates and there's no one else in your house with you or everyone has their own FAC/SGC it's unlikely you're going to get a favourable reply to the above! Indeed 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 From BASC Do not hang cabinet keys where they can be found or divulge the whereabouts of your cabinet keys to unauthorised people (that includes family and friends) for any reason. Ideally keys should be stored in a locked drawer or small safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 From BASC Do not hang cabinet keys where they can be found or divulge the whereabouts of your cabinet keys to unauthorised people (that includes family and friends) for any reason. Ideally keys should be stored in a locked drawer or small safe. Why not go down the road of "Keeping them out in the first place" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 I love the programme, folks showing off their new 4x4 or Ferrari, big plush house, but actually owe folks thousands. I watched the programme and couldn't see a problem, they quoted that they need a specific person to remove them and needed the paper work to be in order 1st. The old chap was funny with the dog, felt sorry for the chap really. I couldn't see why he was at fault. Regarding hiding key's, if you don't have the common sense to make it as difficult as possible for any person not permitted to hold your keys. Then in my opinion you shouldn't have a ticket in the 1st place. Simply due to a simple fact of an idiot owning firearms that can't use his brain cells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 My word What a lot of hassle Hasn't anyone thought of a combination lock or keypad Keys are virtually obsolete And if he had paid his bills this wouldn't have happened!!!!!! Moral to this story If two strangers ( bailiffs) turn up with a film crew in toe put your keys in your pocket All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Some of the replies on this thread are laughable, I keep my safe keys on my car keys so when im in the house they will be stuck in the door lock. You dont need to hide them all the time. We must be a dying breed, because I too keep mine on my key ring. Life is already complicated enough with passwords, PIN codes and the like without having to have a digital safe to worry about. It would appear, in many, that having a certificate is the first step to paranoia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 I love the programme, folks showing off their new 4x4 or Ferrari, big plush house, but actually owe folks thousands. I watched the programme and couldn't see a problem, they quoted that they need a specific person to remove them and needed the paper work to be in order 1st. The old chap was funny with the dog, felt sorry for the chap really. I couldn't see why he was at fault. Regarding hiding key's, if you don't have the common sense to make it as difficult as possible for any person not permitted to hold your keys. Then in my opinion you shouldn't have a ticket in the 1st place. Simply due to a simple fact of an idiot owning firearms that can't use his brain cells. I think that he was at fault due to a Court, having heard ALL of the evidence, decided he was to blame. The rest was entirely down to him ! Bit like the Guy with the guns, get the issue dealt with BEFORE it escalates to Bailiffs visiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 I think that he was at fault due to a Court, having heard ALL of the evidence, decided he was to blame. The rest was entirely down to him ! Bit like the Guy with the guns, get the issue dealt with BEFORE it escalates to Bailiffs visiting. Yes it was his fault, buried his head in the sand. Been there done that, even had the bailiffs round. You learn the hard way sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Where the keys were kept are irrelevant to the question if the bailiffs acted legally . IMO when he opened the safe and handled the firearm he was in illegal possession of the firearm. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 Where the keys were kept are irrelevant to the question if the bailiffs acted legally . IMO when he opened the safe and handled the firearm he was in illegal possession of the firearm. . In what way? Even if he isn't authorised to handle and take possession of firearms within the property which apparently high court bailiffs are, what's the difference between him doing that and you or I handling a firearm in a gun shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagantino Posted September 8, 2017 Report Share Posted September 8, 2017 It's great to see fellow shooters stand up for another one. Well some. I guess some never set their keys down on a kitchen surface for a second, ever, or god forbid, leave them in your trousers. Can't Pay... is television and those guys love the presence of firearms. I watched it and the bailiff could not wait to get into he attic when he found the keys to show them to the camera. Did anyone see the episode where they found some Airsoft kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 i saw it last night and the keys should not have been on the side, had they not found them they may not have found the guns,end of the day keys should be hid away soon as you get home, like i do.some of the guns were not his,did he lose his ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveboy Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 He said the guns were not his but were on his ticket...I'm not sure I believed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham M Posted September 9, 2017 Report Share Posted September 9, 2017 And just to enforce the case for making sure no-one was able to get your keys- http://news.sky.com/story/boy-who-was-seconds-away-from-launching-mass-shooting-at-school-sentenced-11025693 Can you imagine the storm that would have followed had this gone through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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