Brexit - Merged Threads

[Jaymo]

I think the answer is close to or exactly Sweet F A

 

Can you categorically state that 'none' have ever been adopted or are we just guessing.

Like so many things in life, unless we're informed or seek out the info it's very easy to go down this path.

 

We as a nation, are renown for whinging and making statements, be it for the weather, politics or whatever we can sprout out down the pub.

 

I'm just here for balance, not abuse......... if I want that I will go home to the wife

[ShootingEgg]

Can you categorically state that 'none' have ever been adopted or are we just guessing.

Like so many things in life, unless we're informed or seek out the info it's very easy to go down this path.

 

We as a nation, are renown for whinging and making statements, be it for the weather, politics or whatever we can sprout out down the pub.

 

I'm just here for balance, not abuse......... if I want that I will go home to the wife

No abuse from me bud, but from what I have researched, and I did do leading up to the vote, very little the UK put forward ever gets passed.

[TriBsa]

We as a nation, are renown for whinging and making statements, be it for the weather, politics or whatever we can sprout out down the pub.

 

We as a nation would cease to exist in the EU's plan for a superstate, relegated to region status and peopled by a multicultural mish mash that was loyal only to Brussels if that. Don't talk of nation if you are pro EU, it is not PC.

[Rewulf]

Can you categorically state that 'none' have ever been adopted or are we just guessing.

Like so many things in life, unless we're informed or seek out the info it's very easy to go down this path.

 

We as a nation, are renown for whinging and making statements, be it for the weather, politics or whatever we can sprout out down the pub.

 

I'm just here for balance, not abuse......... if I want that I will go home to the wife

 

I could ask you what kind of voice you think we have within the EU.

You say we whinge and moan about stuff, do you think that we are somewhat different from our European neighbours ?

I asked you why you think we are leaving, you seem to not warrant that with an answer.

You might do the usual ' we were misinformed, we are racists, we dont like smelly Frenchmen, we are stupid' type of ignorant dismissive terms.

But in reality, the real reason is that our voice counts for nothing in the EU.

So if we are not really a part of it, why bother being in it ?

Yes our EU parliament members are mostly anti EU ,well who voted for them ?

Our requests on economic and migration matters are ignored or dismissed, we pay into the pot, and they tell us where its going to be spent.

We pay for 'projects' in poorer countries that we will never see, we have health tourists coming over to use our NHS costing more and more, whilst the service itself creaks under the pressure.

I could go on, but you have it in your mind that the EU works..for you.

Its pointless trying to make out we have a say, that we can change the bad bits of the EU, we tried, theyre not interested in reform.

They want more control , more money, less accountability and less democracy.

If you cant see that its swinging towards a socialist oligarchy or maybe even a pseudo fascist dictatorship, Im sorry ,but its you who needs to get your tin foil hat off.

[krugerandsmith]

 

I could ask you what kind of voice you think we have within the EU.

You say we whinge and moan about stuff, do you think that we are somewhat different from our European neighbours ?

I asked you why you think we are leaving, you seem to not warrant that with an answer.

You might do the usual ' we were misinformed, we are racists, we dont like smelly Frenchmen, we are stupid' type of ignorant dismissive terms.

But in reality, the real reason is that our voice counts for nothing in the EU.

So if we are not really a part of it, why bother being in it ?

Yes our EU parliament members are mostly anti EU ,well who voted for them ?

Our requests on economic and migration matters are ignored or dismissed, we pay into the pot, and they tell us where its going to be spent.

We pay for 'projects' in poorer countries that we will never see, we have health tourists coming over to use our NHS costing more and more, whilst the service itself creaks under the pressure.

I could go on, but you have it in your mind that the EU works..for you.

Its pointless trying to make out we have a say, that we can change the bad bits of the EU, we tried, theyre not interested in reform.

They want more control , more money, less accountability and less democracy.

If you cant see that its swinging towards a socialist oligarchy or maybe even a pseudo fascist dictatorship, Im sorry ,but its you who needs to get your tin foil hat off.

 

 

Quite right.

[dead eye alan]

http://www.euintheus.org/who-we-are/how-the-eu-works/

 

Like many others, we have left you boys to play with your tinfoil hats ( wouldn't want us 'Remainers' reading your thoughts now would we)

 

Democracy is in place - 28 Nations of which we HAVE elected our representatives, all hold Council.

If a recommendation is made then it's voted on- believe that's a Democratic process, or do you believe the other 27 gang up on us against everything?

Now, even though a law can be recommended, there are still powers to veto it...

 

Corruption? Hmmmm, let's look closer to home? Expenses scandals etc- everyone everywhere is to some extent guilty of something?

If you can honestly look in the mirror and say you don't then please go to www.imasaint.vatican.it

 

That's EU 101 in its most simplified form, complexities of the system is too great for my little brain- just like our very own British laws.

 

Please take the above in jest, it's just a forum boys n girls

You say democracy is in place, maybe i missed the election of Junker! and the outher bunch!

[JohnfromUK]

We joined a 'Common Market', formally known as the European Economic Community (EEC). The idea (which was sound) was to allow easier trade, something we (and most EU businesses) still wish to have post Brexit. However it has subsequently been 'hi-jacked' by those wanting "ever closer union".

 

I and apparently the majority in the UK most emphatically do not want "ever closer union" - and if Juncker and his unelected colleagues want to go that way (Macron has only yesterday praised "ever closer union" and I hear is now proposing a common EU budget and European Defence Force) - then we must leave - as we are doing.

 

The EU controlling dictatorship (Juncker, Tusk etc.) belongs to the old 'tax and spend' way of thinking with heavy state regulation and central control - that is proven to be a very expensive and inefficient way on running a country. Unless they can get their finances in order and properly accountable, then the house of cards must eventually collapse. So far we have been basically robbed (as in fact have the German and Dutch economies and they are both beginning to realise this) to prop up this ramshackle house of cards. It should have been good if kept as a simple free trade area with proper individual currencies, and localised rules and economic policies to suit local trade and conditions, but it has been hijacked by socialist tax and spend central controllers. You cannot have the same set of basic rules for such vastly divergent cultures and economies such as Germany and Greece.

 

We are best out.

Edited September 26, 2017 by JohnfromUK

[Jaymo]

Junker was voted in

26:2

Our vote was cast by someone who was voted in to make these sort of decisions ( even you my friend had a hand in their election by voting for your PM)

Now, if you feel thats not democratic then I bet you had a strange childhood?

We used to play footy in the playground, some people got chosen, some werent - occasionally your on the winning side and others not. But the one choosing was the leader

 

We have our Council representative who is the elected (democratically) leader of the Country- in this case he didnt vote for JCJ.

But just because one person doesnt get his way is not really a good reason to chuck in the towel! Or are you the one who sulks off when he isnt winning?

 

End of the day JCJ is a pillock indeed, I cant dispute that- what I do dispute is when just because something isnt going the way you perceive it should that its suddenly not democratic

 

Signing off over and out ( but will check back to see your still playing nicely)

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Slowly, very slowly, people across the EU are waking up to the massive inefficiency of the white elephant, time to get out and let the house of cards collapse.

[JohnfromUK]

Junker was voted in

26:2

Our vote was cast by someone who was voted in to make these sort of decisions ( even you my friend had a hand in their election by voting for your PM)

Now, if you feel thats not democratic then I bet you had a strange childhood?

We used to play footy in the playground, some people got chosen, some werent - occasionally your on the winning side and others not. But the one choosing was the leader

 

We have our Council representative who is the elected (democratically) leader of the Country- in this case he didnt vote for JCJ.

But just because one person doesnt get his way is not really a good reason to chuck in the towel! Or are you the one who sulks off when he isnt winning?

 

End of the day JCJ is a pillock indeed, I cant dispute that- what I do dispute is when just because something isnt going the way you perceive it should that its suddenly not democratic

 

Signing off over and out ( but will check back to see your still playing nicely)

In fact it's a bit like the 'democratic' trade unions 'block votes' really - placed by a commissioner who we didn't elect. That is not real democracy. We do at least agree on JCJ.

Edited September 26, 2017 by JohnfromUK

[pinfireman]

Can you categorically state that 'none' have ever been adopted or are we just guessing.

Like so many things in life, unless we're informed or seek out the info it's very easy to go down this path.

 

We as a nation, are renown for whinging and making statements, be it for the weather, politics or whatever we can sprout out down the pub.

 

I'm just here for balance, not abuse......... if I want that I will go home to the wife

Check it out....none have ever been accepted! We,ve been a golden goose for them, it,s always been a one way street!

[pinfireman]

 

I could ask you what kind of voice you think we have within the EU.

You say we whinge and moan about stuff, do you think that we are somewhat different from our European neighbours ?

I asked you why you think we are leaving, you seem to not warrant that with an answer.

You might do the usual ' we were misinformed, we are racists, we dont like smelly Frenchmen, we are stupid' type of ignorant dismissive terms.

But in reality, the real reason is that our voice counts for nothing in the EU.

So if we are not really a part of it, why bother being in it ?

Yes our EU parliament members are mostly anti EU ,well who voted for them ?

Our requests on economic and migration matters are ignored or dismissed, we pay into the pot, and they tell us where its going to be spent.

We pay for 'projects' in poorer countries that we will never see, we have health tourists coming over to use our NHS costing more and more, whilst the service itself creaks under the pressure.

I could go on, but you have it in your mind that the EU works..for you.

Its pointless trying to make out we have a say, that we can change the bad bits of the EU, we tried, theyre not interested in reform.

They want more control , more money, less accountability and less democracy.

If you cant see that its swinging towards a socialist oligarchy or maybe even a pseudo fascist dictatorship, Im sorry ,but its you who needs to get your tin foil hat off.

CORRECT!

[panoma1]

Junker was voted in

26:2

Our vote was cast by someone who was voted in to make these sort of decisions ( even you my friend had a hand in their election by voting for your PM)

Now, if you feel thats not democratic then I bet you had a strange childhood?

We used to play footy in the playground, some people got chosen, some werent - occasionally your on the winning side and others not. But the one choosing was the leader

We have our Council representative who is the elected (democratically) leader of the Country- in this case he didnt vote for JCJ.

But just because one person doesnt get his way is not really a good reason to chuck in the towel! Or are you the one who sulks off when he isnt winning?

End of the day JCJ is a pillock indeed, I cant dispute that- what I do dispute is when just because something isnt going the way you perceive it should that its suddenly not democratic

Signing off over and out ( but will check back to see your still playing nicely)

A big fish in a little pool (our government in the UK) has more influence and control over what goes on in his little pool.........than a little fish (our government) does in a big pool (the EU).......

[pinfireman]

Junker was voted in

26:2

Our vote was cast by someone who was voted in to make these sort of decisions ( even you my friend had a hand in their election by voting for your PM)

Now, if you feel thats not democratic then I bet you had a strange childhood?

We used to play footy in the playground, some people got chosen, some werent - occasionally your on the winning side and others not. But the one choosing was the leader

 

We have our Council representative who is the elected (democratically) leader of the Country- in this case he didnt vote for JCJ.

But just because one person doesnt get his way is not really a good reason to chuck in the towel! Or are you the one who sulks off when he isnt winning?

 

End of the day JCJ is a pillock indeed, I cant dispute that- what I do dispute is when just because something isnt going the way you perceive it should that its suddenly not democratic

 

Signing off over and out ( but will check back to see your still playing nicely)

Voted in.....by the unelected Commissioners!

[pinfireman]

News coming out of Labour conference.....one of the "backroom" meetings of Momentum, who currently own the Labour Party.....if Labour win,it will be infettered immigration, and all those here now, who have been here longer than 3 years, will get the vote!

[Paul1440]

Voted in.....by the unelected Commissioners!

Might be worth a read:÷

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Commission

[12gauge82]

Junker was voted in

26:2

Our vote was cast by someone who was voted in to make these sort of decisions ( even you my friend had a hand in their election by voting for your PM)

Now, if you feel thats not democratic then I bet you had a strange childhood?

We used to play footy in the playground, some people got chosen, some werent - occasionally your on the winning side and others not. But the one choosing was the leader

 

We have our Council representative who is the elected (democratically) leader of the Country- in this case he didnt vote for JCJ.

But just because one person doesnt get his way is not really a good reason to chuck in the towel! Or are you the one who sulks off when he isnt winning?

 

End of the day JCJ is a pillock indeed, I cant dispute that- what I do dispute is when just because something isnt going the way you perceive it should that its suddenly not democratic

 

Signing off over and out ( but will check back to see your still playing nicely)

That's a very disjointed view of democracy in my view but if we run with your line of thinking, how exactly can you argue with the result of the referendum that has just taken place, which is a vote for LEAVE, or is it you've got your own selfish reasons for wanting to remain (your own personal opinion is obviously fine by the way, I'm not call in you personally selfish, just don't expect everyone else to want to remain because of it)

[spanj]

Junker was voted in

26:2

Our vote was cast by someone who was voted in to make these sort of decisions ( even you my friend had a hand in their election by voting for your PM)

Now, if you feel thats not democratic then I bet you had a strange childhood?

We used to play footy in the playground, some people got chosen, some werent - occasionally your on the winning side and others not. But the one choosing was the leader

 

We have our Council representative who is the elected (democratically) leader of the Country- in this case he didnt vote for JCJ.

But just because one person doesnt get his way is not really a good reason to chuck in the towel! Or are you the one who sulks off when he isnt winning?

 

End of the day JCJ is a pillock indeed, I cant dispute that- what I do dispute is when just because something isnt going the way you perceive it should that its suddenly not democratic

 

Signing off over and out ( but will check back to see your still playing nicely)

Using your analogy of playing footy in the playground........... who elected / chose the "leader" ?

Edited September 26, 2017 by spanj

[KB1]

I think you'll find it is an Association Agreement (AA) or a treaty, not a contract!....if it were a contract, how would a breach be remedied? Who would sit in judgment? And who would enforce such a judgment?

 

Which has a legal base……… in essence, a contract

[Rewulf]

Junker was voted in

26:2

Our vote was cast by someone who was voted in to make these sort of decisions ( even you my friend had a hand in their election by voting for your PM)

Now, if you feel thats not democratic then I bet you had a strange childhood?

We used to play footy in the playground, some people got chosen, some werent - occasionally your on the winning side and others not. But the one choosing was the leader

 

We have our Council representative who is the elected (democratically) leader of the Country- in this case he didnt vote for JCJ.

But just because one person doesnt get his way is not really a good reason to chuck in the towel! Or are you the one who sulks off when he isnt winning?

 

End of the day JCJ is a pillock indeed, I cant dispute that- what I do dispute is when just because something isnt going the way you perceive it should that its suddenly not democratic

 

Signing off over and out ( but will check back to see your still playing nicely)

 

Im not sure what youre trying to say, you use a peculiar argument to 'prove' the EU is a democratic institution.

Do you really believe that?

But its really besides the point, who decided, and at what point, were they going to become a government ?

For that is what they have become.

Not only that, they are a government that tells other elected governments what it can and cant do, threatening 'consequences' if they dont !

The only issue is ,besides holding financial and economic cards, they dont really have anything to back up their threats, they have no armed forces, but hang on..what appears to be their next 'ever closer union' is more financial controls, and an EU army, supposedly to defend against Russian aggression

 

So you can dodge the difficult arguments of what and where the EU is supposed to be if you like, but its quite simple.

If their primary aim was to enable easier trade between European countries, should that not be the first thing to sort out on the Brexit agenda?

Look after the manufacturers, the workers, you know , the life blood of Europe.

But no, they want to talk 'divorce' money, the Irish border and citizens rights, are they more important than the 100 million plus working people in the EU ?

The crazy thing is people think this is all quite normal !

I dont remember voting to be controlled by Brussels, by people Ive never heard of, did you ?

[KB1]

Under Attlee and Gaitskell....it,s never been my party of choice, but it has not always been full of idiots, like it is today!

and what about what they owe us?

Hear hear!!!!

 

I like it as much as you do, but expecting to walk away without consequences (which I think is what AVB was saying) is just living in LaLa land

[12gauge82]

 

Which has a legal base in essence, a contract

Contract or not matters not, we've abided by it and are now leaving, we've broken no rules of the 'contract' and there's nothing in the 'contract' about a leaving fee, theres no legal basis for it.

[12gauge82]

 

I like it as much as you do, but expecting to walk away without consequences (which I think is what AVB was saying) is just living in LaLa land

Of course there'll be consequences, what is annoying me and most leave supporters I've spoken to is we're making consequences for ourselves by remaining in the club and paying a bill that we don't have to and in my opinion there is no moral obligation either in fact quite the opersite.

[KB1]

Contract or not matters not, we've abided by it and are now leaving, we've broken no rules of the 'contract' and there's nothing in the 'contract' about a leaving fee, theres no legal basis for it.

 

The finer details are way over my head, so I'll leave it to you and TM to sort it all out I'm sure she'll benefit from your wisdom xx

[pinfireman]

 

I like it as much as you do, but expecting to walk away without consequences (which I think is what AVB was saying) is just living in LaLa land

But there should also be consequences for the EU.....we,ve paid massive amounts of money for some of their "assetts"....perhaps they should settle their bill with us first?