Deker Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Fully agree with Figgy on this one, there's no deterrent at all at the minute, people seem to think that these murderers and rapists have human rights, they don't they lose them when they took the human rights away from their victims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Deker - I have to agree. The minute someone commits a criminal act, some idiot starts spouting drivel about their human rights. When "Human Rights" first hit the planet, they were intended for an entirely different purpose than the woolly headed interpretation of today. Human Rights should not be about whether their cell will have air conditioning, a TV, a computer, five star food etc. It is meant to ensure that they are treated fairly and not abused. Massive difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 4 hours ago, Vince Green said: Juries would simply not return guilty verdicts if they know they were sending someone to the gallows. Even if they were totally convinced of the person's guilt. Too many bleeding heart musili eaters out there, they have not got the required strength of character. They would rather let a guilty man go free than sentence him to death. That’s just an assumption; you can’t possibly know that. I would however, be interested to know what the result would be if the populace was given a free vote on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Scully /Vince - I wouldn't bet my life savings either way, but I would like to see a binding referendum. People keep saying there would only be one outcome - much as they said about Brexit. If it didn't go the way I wanted, I could demand a second one, as the people who voted against my wishes didn't understand what they were voting for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 7 hours ago, johnny said: I'd like it back, also a 3 strike rule 3 offences of any kind other than speeding maybe then game over. This would save us loads of money This is a terrible system, the US prisons are full of people doing life for three minor things such as a homeless guy stealing some food - granted it is a crime but to get life for it is madness. Also there have been cases where someone knows they are going to get life for a 3rd so go all out and escalate trying anything to escape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 minute ago, The Mighty Prawn said: This is a terrible system, the US prisons are full of people doing life for three minor things such as a homeless guy stealing some food - granted it is a crime but to get life for it is madness. Also there have been cases where someone knows they are going to get life for a 3rd so go all out and escalate trying anything to escape Or ,you could try something really crazy like , DONT DO THE CRIME ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston72 Posted February 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, The Mighty Prawn said: This is a terrible system, the US prisons are full of people doing life for three minor things such as a homeless guy stealing some food - granted it is a crime but to get life for it is madness. Also there have been cases where someone knows they are going to get life for a 3rd so go all out and escalate trying anything to escape do you have any info on the above, i would like to research that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 11 hours ago, Gordon R said: I cited Myra Hindley and Ian Brady and asked a straight question. I can only conclude, from your simplistic answer, which avoided the direct question, that you think they were innocent. Did you read my post. ? Quote Manta. So you don't have a issue with innocent people being executed by the state. And yes i would object to it for anyone, i would support life without parole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 Quote Did you read my post. ? Yes I did and, to give you the benefit of the doubt, I read it again. To put it as simply as I can, requiring only a yes or no - would you have hung Ian Brady and Myra Hindley? If your answer is yes or no - fair enough, but don't waffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Yes I did and, to give you the benefit of the doubt, I read it again. To put it as simply as I can, requiring only a yes or no - would you have hung Ian Brady and Myra Hindley? If your answer is yes or no - fair enough, but don't waffle. I thought (And yes i would object to it for anyone) was pretty clear , but if you have trouble with that then i would not of hung Brady and Myra Hindley or anyone else. Edited February 2, 2018 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustaff Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 22 hours ago, Ricko said: Pierrepoint's autobiography makes an interesting read, even he had doubts at the end of his career. good read.i think i could do his job and very well paid in them days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston72 Posted February 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) he made a fair few shekels at Hamelin Edited February 2, 2018 by Winston72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricko Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, gustaff said: good read.i think i could do his job and very well paid in them days He had to campaign for a rise as he was still being paid on his father/uncles rate for years. Syd Dernley's biog is interesting too. Best jobs that AP did were all the WWII criminals at Hameln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lister22 Posted February 2, 2018 Report Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, motty said: Hmm. Not entirely sure of that logic. ok I would not like to be hanged for a crime I did not commit Edited February 2, 2018 by lister22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 Remember Derek Bentley! Blackpowder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Blackpowder said: Remember Derek Bentley! Blackpowder Do you mean the burglar who whether or not he actually pulled the trigger was present when a policeman was shot and another killed? Wouldn't happen nowadays anyway as he would be considered unfit for trial. Edited February 3, 2018 by walshie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 34 minutes ago, Blackpowder said: Remember Derek Bentley! Blackpowder In those days anyone who killed a copper would face execution.....it was society's way through the judiciary of making an example of and warning others not to do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 That's the same one Walshie, allegedly in police custody when his 16 year old companion murdered a police officer. Blackpowdwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 19 minutes ago, Blackpowder said: That's the same one Walshie, allegedly in police custody when his 16 year old companion murdered a police officer. Blackpowdwer Agreed. I was trying to highlight he wasn't the innocent victim of circumstance some people would suggest. He was a convicted thief in the act of committing a burglary with weapons in his pockets and a partner with a gun. I don't believe joint enterprise is even a thing these days, but his mental capacity would preclude him standing trial now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 I think that execution should be brought back as a deterrent for the most serious of crimes such as terrorist attacks with people dying where there are no doubts about who committed the act, there should also be a 5 strikes and your out policy to target repeat offenders which crimes are individually undertaken on 5 separate and non-related occasions (where again there should be no doubt) for lesser crimes such as rape, gbh, abh, where jail is the punishment for the first 4 and then capital for the 5th. For one off serious offenders, jail is still a deterrent and should continue as present. For minor offenders (i.e. where there was no physical harm to anyone such as burglary, car theft etc), I think corporal punishment would be a more effective deterrent with 5 of the birch or equivalent for first offence, 10 for 2nd etc. and then at the 5th jail and would be immensely cheaper as I suspect quite a few opportunists would be deterred the first time they were punished. I would also decriminalise any and all non-violent drugs, (which I don't and would never touch myself as no interest) but which cause less issues than alcohol which is legal and which could then be sold through dispensary's and this would probably reduce 50% to 90% of overall non-violent crimes, 50% of the violent ones etc. as the prices would fall to cost of production and sale and take a huge hit out of the suppliers pocket as well as saving innocent people a whole let of hassle when their belongings are stolen and sold for a 1/5th value to pay for drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 18 hours ago, Rewulf said: Or ,you could try something really crazy like , DONT DO THE CRIME ! In a romantic lovely version of the world this would work, however desperate people will always do desperate things and they are the people hit hard by three strikes rule 17 hours ago, Winston72 said: do you have any info on the above, i would like to research that http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/25/opinion/sunday/california-horror-stories-and-the-3-strikes-law.html there are so many articles on these cases, this was one of the first search results. the major complaint is the number of mentally ill people condemned to 25+ years inside due to failings of society to protect them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston72 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 hour ago, The Mighty Prawn said: In a romantic lovely version of the world this would work, however desperate people will always do desperate things and they are the people hit hard by three strikes rule the major complaint is the number of mentally ill people condemned to 25+ years inside due to failings of society to protect them I appreciate that, and of course there should be flexibility when using such a rule. But surely having it as an option, within the judiciaries deterrent arsenal , cant be a bad thing. If you dont want people to do illegal things , you have to make them believe the punishment is not worth the crime. When you dont use the full weight of the law, they stop fearing the consequences of crime,as we have seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delwint Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 I had a colleague who used to work in Saudi for years who said he had seen a sign in a shop saying “if you value your hands, do not steal!!” He said in all those years he only saw a couple of people with one hand and never any with two missing! Slight change to the hanging debate but a few people have said there is no deterrent in the uk. I know we’d never have that here but it was just an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose man Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 On 02/02/2018 at 10:27, Vince Green said: I'm not so sure about that, in some states a first burglary conviction gets you seven years, a second gets you fourteen, a third gets you life. Their burglary levels are much less than a tenth of ours. There is some evidence that dracionian sentences do act as a deterrent Not to mention you have a better than average chance to get shot by the homeowner .... lee rigby’s killers , soham murderer, London attackers and a few more swinging from a rope would be no lose to society, besides it free’s few cells up ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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