Side by Side Club

[JJsDad]

22 hours ago, MrPhantom said:

Thanks for posting. It’s amazing how some people treat their guns and have no pride of ownership.

A finale to this little story. When I took the barrels to Sorrel`s Bros (both ex Pudey men) for the work to be carried out, the older (and more grumpy of the two) threw a wobbly and told me people like me shouldnt be allowed within a mile of a decent gun because anyone who could use and abuse a set of barrels like that should be bloody ashamed of themselves.

Having stood there in amazement at what I considered a pretty rude response to a customer with several hundred pounds worth of work that I wanted done, I bit my tongue and told him that was how I had bought the gun, but if he didnt feel he could do the work I would go elsewhere. With this he said: "Well, the bloke you bought it from should be bloody ashamed" and stalked off into their workshop. Despite this rather rude reception, they did a super job and stuck to their quotation for the work.

Edited April 23, 2018 by JJsDad

[matone]

35 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

A finale to this little story. When I took the barrels to Sorrel`s Bros (both ex Pudey men) for the work to be carried out, the older (and more grumpy of the two) threw a wobbly and told me people like me shouldnt be allowed within a mile of a decent gun because anyone who could use and abuse a set of barrels like that should be bloody ashamed of themselves.

Having stood there in amazement at what I considered a pretty rude response to a customer with several hundred pounds worth of work that I wanted done, I bit my tongue and told him that was how I had bought the gun, but if he didnt feel he could do the work I would go elsewhere. With this he said: "Well, the bloke you bought it from should be bloody shamed" and stalked off into their workshop. Despite this rather rude reception, they did a super job and stuck to their quotation for the work.

Lucky you got it and saved it !

[JJsDad]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

(certainly more recent) No 2s are I understand 'roll engraved'.

Hi John.

I cant speak for the engraving on the current range of standard No: 2s, as I havent looked at one in close up, however in my opinion the whole range took an almost disastrous nosedive in engraving and wood quality during the ill fated DIARM period (circa  1981-88), you can usually pick these out from a distance of several feet because of the poor engraving, which I suspect as you said may well have been rolled on. Thankfully when AYA reformed after the DIARM collapse they got their house back in order over a period of a year or so, albeit dropping the popular range of non-ejectors that had sold so well over the years. One of our syndicate has a No: 2 de-luxe version, which I have to admit is very very nice, however it should be, as the price new was something like 3 times what I paid to purchase and re-furbish my No: 1.

Edited April 22, 2018 by JJsDad

[AYA117]

5 hours ago, JJsDad said:

This AYA No: 1 dates from around 1979-80 and came into my possesion from a builder who bought it new and advertised it in the sporting press for sale and as requiring a little TLC.

As the price was at the bottom end of the going rate I rang the seller and arranged to view it. When he showed me the gun it was evident from his comment that it needed TLC, that he was a master of understatement and had no interest in looking after what had been when new, a lovely gun; as he put it "I only used it for a bit of ducking and I am not mechanically minded" ! 

The barrels for around 8in. in the area of the  fore-end were totally white. The choke barrel had a worringly large dent about 4 in. from the muzzle and the right barrel was badly scratched for about 5 to 6in. forward of the forcing cone. The RH ejector had packed up and the stock was in a very sorry state with dents and scratches; to add insult to injury, the stock had been cut down so that it was flat and fitted with a hideous ventilated recoil pad that overlapped the wood by about an 2 to 3 mm all round. As a finale the barrels were off the face and there was noticeable movement with the fore-end removed.

I was trying to come up with an excuse without causing offence when the seller told me he had had 2 previous viewings, both of whom had walked away, so he was prepared to accept an offer. I explained that getting all these faults put straight was all going to cost a considerable outlay on top of what he was asking. He said he had been told the dent "could be pushed out and the barrels re-blacked for around £50" !!!!     I offered him £400 less than the asking price and was reaching for the door handle when he had a rapid reality check and agreed.

Over the next 4 months the following work was carried out:

The RH ejector `V` spring, as suspected, had fractured and a new one was obtained through ASI and fitted with only a small ammount of fettling.

The threaded discs covering the hinge pin came out without a problem. I measured the gap between standing breech and barrels, turned up a new oversize pin that was twice the measured gap plus 3 thou. The old hinge pin was then driven out and the hole reamed using an adjustable reamer to give an interference fit for the new pin. The rear of the barrels were then smoked and fitted to the action by taking off the high spots. This resulted in good engagement of the underbolt and the barrel bites with the top lever to the right of the centre.

The barrels still had their original chokings of half & full so I took those to Sorrel Bros (East Grinstead) and asked them to open the chokes to a quarter & half, raise the dent in the LH hand barrel and polish or hone the RH barrel to remove the offending scratch. 8 weeks later and around £300 poorer I at least had a set of barrels that looked like new.

I stripped the stock to remove dings and scratches and slung the ventillated pad and fitted an orange `Silvers` version. The stock was then oil finished using alkanet root oil to colour it and then slackum and finishing oil from a Warthog (Purdey) kit that I bought some years ago. She is not an old lady by gun standards, but at least is now back to close to her original beauty.

 

I love hearing things like this, a gun taken from the edge of being scrapped and put back to it's former glory.It amazes me how some people treat their guns, yes they were made to be used, but to be abused, well done and a fine looking example it is .

Edited April 22, 2018 by AYA117

[Terry2016]

Yes count me in too please 

1 English pair 12g and a 16g English Hammer 

1 French 16g 

Terry

[triumphant59]

I own 9 sxs's mainly 12g Spanish sidelocks, couple of 16's, so would qualify and be interested in a sxs group.

[islandgun]

10 hours ago, figgy said:

 

Thomas Edwin Wild was born in Leicester in 1825. Where he was apprenticed is not known but he was recorded in 1849, probably as an outworking stock maker at Court, 17 Steelhouse Lane. At the time he was living as a lodger with Richard Johnson, a cordwainer (boot and shoe maker), at 42 Whittall Street. Almost certainly, he did work for Benjamin Watson, and at some time between 1851 and 1857 he married Benjamin Watson's daughter and then moved to 29 Whittall Street. The firm later claimed establishment in 1857. It has been widely reported that in 1857 Benjamin handed the business over to Thomas Wild, and these reports imply that he ceased to trade, but this is not correct. At about the time of the marriage of his daughter, Benjamin (aged 52) appears to have decided to concentrate on being a "percussioner" to the trade and, in order not to upset his trade customers, he left Thomas to run the retail side of the business under the Wild name. In the 1861 census Benjamin was recorded as a gun percussioner living at 14 Steelhouse Lane with his wife, Sarah, who was recorded as a burnisher. From 1861 to 1864 Benjamin Watson (III) was also shown in the street directories as trading at 73 Moland Street. At this time the firm was probably exporting arms to the USA for use in the civil war. The Moland Street premises had become his principal place of business, but he still lived and worked at 14 Steelhouse Lane. At the time of the 1861 census Thomas Wild and Sarah were living above the shop at 29 Whittall Street. The 1861 census records the Isaac Watson of Summer Lane (brother of Benjamin noted in the 1841 census) as a gun percussioner aged 38 living at 23 Lower Loveday Street with his wife, Elizabeth (a provision dealer), Isaac (b.1856), Rowland (b.1857), plus three daughters and another son. Benjamin (III) died in 1870 aged 65. Between 1864 and 1870 it seems that Thomas Wild took over his business and the premises at 35 Moland Street. These premises did not become his principal address, the principal address remained at 29 Whittall Street until 1883/6. The 1861 census showed Benjamin (IV), aged 29 and a gun maker, living at 37 Bagot Street as a lodger, with his wife, Eliza (a warehousewoman born 1837), and their son Benjamin (V) (b.1857). It is believed they married in 1857. The 1871 census recorded Benjamin (IV) as a gun percussioner living at 37 Bagot Street with his wife, Eliza, and Benjamin (V) who by then was an iron caster aged 14. In the 1871 census Thomas Wild and Sarah were still living at 29 Whittall Street (no children were recorded), but between 1883 and 1886 the firm's principal place of business changed to 35 Whittall Street which, probably between 1886 and 1894 (just after Thomas Wild died) was named Victoria Gun Works where they also traded as "The Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Company". The company claimed a head office at 143 Queen Victoria Street, London, and "at Liege". At the time that he died Thomas Wild was living in Aston. No other census entries for the Wild family have been found, but there may have been a son. A Benjamin Wild worked for BSA then for Midland Gun Co, but in the 1930s he established his own business, Benjamin Wild & Co which is trading today. There were a number of people named Wild in Birmingham at the time, so whether he was related to Thomas Wild or not is not known. The 1891 census recorded Benjamin (IV), as a gun maker aged 59, and Eliza living at 2 Court, 2 Park Road, Aston Manor, but in 1893 a firm by the name of Rowland Watson was recorded at 17 Whittall Street, as was Thomas Wild & Co. It would appear that Benjamin (IV) retired in 1893 (he died in 1896) and that Rowland Watson (I) took over from him. There are reports that Rowland Watson was the son of Benjamin Watson (III), and was Thomas's nephew but, as mentioned above, he was in fact the son of Isaac Watson of 23 Lower Loveday Street and was therefore Sarah's cousin. Rowland Watson's trade label at this time claimed establishment in 1857 which was the date Thomas Wild started his business, but the trade label used from about 1900 stated the date of establishment of the original Benjamin Watson in 1723. In the 1901 census, Rowland Watson was recorded as a gun maker aged 44 (b.1857) at 17 Whittall Street living with his wife, Catherine, and their son, Gilbert aged 19. He was recorded not as an employer but as a worker, working from home, and Gilbert's occupation was recorded as gunmaker's assistant, presumably to his father. The firm of Thomas Wild appears to have been operating from 19 Whittall Street, although from about 1901 Rowland Watson's address was also given as 17 Whittall Street. In 1933 the firms of Rowland Watson and Thomas Wild (& Co) occupied 17 and 18 Whittall Street. In 1941 Rowland Watson (I) died and his brother Gilbert Watson took over. Gilbert appears to have retired or died in 1951 and his son, Roland H G Watson (Roland (II)) born on 19 May 1910, took over. He was a Guardian of the Birmingham Proof House. The firm remained at 17 and 18 Whittall Street until 1962 when they moved to 32 Lower Loveday Street. Roland H G Watson retired from the management of both firms in 1987 and also as a Proof House Guardian. He died in 1988 in Solihull, and Barry A King, who had started work with the firm in 1951, bought the business. Barry King started as an errand boy, became a warehouseman, and eventually specialised as a stocker. The firm stocked guns for many Birmingham gunmakers such as Holloway & Naughton, Skimmin & Wood, Midland Gun Co, G E Lewis, William Ford and others. Guns produced by the firms were marked Watson or Wild, but the same numbering sequence was used for all guns. Obviously, most Watson guns made for the trade were engraved with the name of the retailer rather than with the names of Watson or Wild. The early records of the firms seem to have been lost, but Internet Gun Club has copies of records for 1894 and from 1898 to 1966. The original records are held by Joe Wheater, a retired gunshop owner and the famous clay shooter who represented Great Britain in many international competitions and the Olympic Games in the 1950s and 60s. Barry King retired in 2006. Benjamin Wild & Co occupy premises at Unit FF1, 63 Price Street, Birmingham B4 6JZ, but Colin Wild, the proprietor, has no records or detailed knowledge of his family history. Other Info The firm is known to have sold Remington New Club cartridges, they must have sold others as well.

Clumber....Capt C PM'd this info relating to T Wild might be useful to some,..........   sorry figgy wrong quote

Edited April 22, 2018 by islandgun

[McSpredder]

23 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

I had a 16g Gallyon BLE a little bit older than yours. Has yours got the Cornucopia logo on the trigger guard ? No doubt Richard Gallyon has been able to let you know who it was made for and the price at that time.

Not found cornucopia anywhere.   It is a fairly plain non-ejector with only some simple border engraving, probably bought in from one of the Birmingham manufacturers (and none the worse for that).  I had a short chat with Richard Gallyon at a game fair about 20 years ago, and he said the serial number would be from the 1920s.   Silver oval on the stock is engraved “CC”, and I think the previous owner was said to have been a Fenland farmer by the name of Crow(e).

 

Father paid £50 for it in 1961, equivalent to over £1000 today, and it's obviously now worth a lot less.   An economist might call that a poor investment, but the £50 outlay has given our family 57 years of use of the gun, which seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

Still a very usable item, not least because it had been re-barrelled (not sleeved, as one might have expected with a plain gun) and proved in 1960 for 2-3/4” cartridges. 

[Old Boggy]

9 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

Not found cornucopia anywhere.   It is a fairly plain non-ejector with only some simple border engraving, probably bought in from one of the Birmingham manufacturers (and none the worse for that).  I had a short chat with Richard Gallyon at a game fair about 20 years ago, and he said the serial number would be from the 1920s.   Silver oval on the stock is engraved “CC”, and I think the previous owner was said to have been a Fenland farmer by the name of Crow(e).

 

Father paid £50 for it in 1961, equivalent to over £1000 today, and it's obviously now worth a lot less.   An economist might call that a poor investment, but the £50 outlay has given our family 57 years of use of the gun, which seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

Still a very usable item, not least because it had been re-barrelled (not sleeved, as one might have expected with a plain gun) and proved in 1960 for 2-3/4” cartridges. 

As you say, your Gallyon has given your family much pleasure over so many years and no price can be put on that. Being rebarrelled the gun will be good for many years to come and hopefully can be passed down through the family for continued use. The sentimental value alone makes that gun something to cherish and enjoy using, something not everyone is able to accomplish.

Continue to enjoy it.

OB

[Esca]

I in.

Just returned to the sbs club in over 28 years.  C Boswell 12 non ejector.

[AYA117]

2 minutes ago, Esca said:

I in.

Just returned to the sbs club in over 28 years.  C Boswell 12 non ejector.

Welcome back! 28 years is a long time on the dark side 

[AYA117]

Hey !  It is now an 'official' Side by Side Club !!!!

[oldypigeonpopper]

8 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

Hey !  It is now an 'official' Side by Side Club !!!!

A big 

[Old Boggy]

Here`s another couple of better photos of my old Woodward showing the wonderful refurbishment carried out by Demonwolf444.

[JJsDad]

Thanks to the `Moderators` who gave this request the thumbs up and whoever did the necessary programming behind the scenes to make this happen

JJsDad

[winnie&bezza]

11 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

Here`s another couple of better photos of my old Woodward showing the wonderful refurbishment carried out by Demonwolf444.

Beautiful.

[Old Boggy]

Here`s a couple of my previously owned 16g W.Symons BLNE showing the nicely figured stock and lovely Damascus barrels.

[Old Boggy]

And finally, my recently acquired 16g AYA model 400 BLNE. Nothing fantastic but a little special in that unlike the No.3 it has shoulders to the action and disc set strikers. Not sure though whether the No.3 has disc set strikers though. Apparently this was the precursor to the Nos 3 & 4 made for the Spanish market in the 60s prior to the massive UK imports commenced. Not many of these about, so would like to hear from anyone owning one. There is a 20g one for sale at Avalon guns currently.

[JJsDad]

Thankfully, incidents today of barrel failure are fairly rare; probably due to a more responsible attitude towards safety than was the norm when I started shooting.

I thought the photo`s below might interest some members who have perhaps never seen the end result of a SBS barrel blocked by snow. The arrow on the RH picture shows the start of the classic ring bulge before the choke area failed.

The end of these barrels were removed from a Belgian boxlock non-ejector about 30 years ago. The somewhat shocked owner was a farmer who had climbed over a wire fence while out shooting when there was about 4 or 5 in. of snow on the ground. He accepted in climbing the fence he had accidently pushed the barrels into the snow, but thought as it was fresh & soft it would fall out or get pushed out when he fired. Wrong !

He subsequently shot at a Pheasant using the choke barrel, which he missed; however, as he fired he received a sharp blow on his thigh that cut his trousers and left him with a large bruise. Unsure what exactly had happened he looked at the gun and realised a large chunk of the barrel had blown off and unexplicitly had come backwards. Could have been far worse if it had hit him in the face. Solution: Barrels were cut off, squared up and the joint between ribs and barrel soldered up. When I bumped into him months later he swore he had never shot so well with it in his life !!!!         Choke as somebody once said:  "Lengthens your reach, but lightens your bag"

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by JJsDad

[JJsDad]

52 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

Here`s a couple of my previously owned 16g W.Symons BLNE showing the nicely figured stock and lovely Damascus barrels.

Old Boggy, shame on you !! How on earth could you part with a gun with such a stock !!!!

[Esca]

3 hours ago, AYA117 said:

Welcome back! 28 years is a long time on the dark side 

I would be fibbing if I said I didn't get a thrill when I picked up that sbs. It was one of the best moments you can have with your trousers on. Looking forwards to getting out into the field with it.

[wymberley]

23 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

Old Boggy, shame on you !! How on earth could you part with a gun with such a stock !!!!

Quite.

Apart from, of course, selling it to me.

[Mr.C]

2 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

Beautiful barrels, one day I'll get mine redone and pictures like this are a great encouragement

[AYA117]

2 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

Here`s another couple of better photos of my old Woodward showing the wonderful refurbishment carried out by Demonwolf444.

That is stunning piece of wood !

[Dangerous Brian]

On ‎19‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 19:00, wymberley said:

Are you saying that a double trigger is not traditional?

The double trigger is the nod to tradition. The multi choke and steel shot proofing I thought might be a bit of a sticking point