Vegan in the family

[winnie&bezza]

Do vegans wear shoes made out of leather etc. 

[hambone]

Just now, winnie&bezza said:

Do vegans wear shoes made out of leather etc. 

yes they chew them when the cravings become unbearable ?

[winnie&bezza]

I’d just send out a ‘revised’ invitation to him with order of the day saying that the pig for spit roast will be sacrificed live to get the best taste. One less vegan at your wedding ??

[chrisjpainter]

2 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

If she cooks you a steak when you visit her......that sounds reasonable!

Can I ask why you think it is a moral, inescapable belief that you MUST eat meat? I don't mean that it's allowed for you to eat meat, or that it's not wrong, or even that it's right to, but that you MUST eat meat

[fandango]

give the lad a turnip and a spoon.... he should be happy with that.... keep him occupied for hours...……..

[Big Mat]

8 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

If she cooks you a steak when you visit her......that sounds reasonable!

 

I wouldn't expect her to, why should we force our meat eating views on others if we don't want their views forcing on us?

[panoma1]

1 minute ago, chrisjpainter said:

Can I ask why you think it is a moral, inescapable belief that you MUST eat meat? I don't mean that it's allowed for you to eat meat, or that it's not wrong, or even that it's right to, but that you MUST eat meat

I dont! I just expect to be treated the same as others expect me to be treat them!

[chrisjpainter]

9 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I dont! I just expect to be treated the same as others expect me to be treat them!

Then you miss the point of veganism. What you're asking of your fictitious vegan sister is to go against something that is an incredibly, deeply, personal conviction. 

She's asking you to not have a slice of meat for a change. That's not equality. You're not asking to be treated in the same way, you're asking of her far, far more of her than she is of you. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by chrisjpainter

[panoma1]

2 minutes ago, Big Mat said:

 

I wouldn't expect her to, why should we force our meat eating views on others if we don't want their views forcing on us?

Views are fine! But why should a carnivore cater for a vegans diet when the vegan refuses to cater for the carnivores?

[Dougy]

I really can't see what the problem is, Vegan, vegy, emo, punk, rocker, gay, lesbian they have the opportunity to join in the party and eating the sausage rolls offered or they bring their own. I really don't see the problem. 

They didn't have these sorts years ago. 

 

Blimey what's the world coming to.

[panoma1]

2 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Then you miss the point of veganism. What you're asking of your fictitious vegan sister is to go against something that is an incredibly, deeply, personal conviction. 

She's asking you to not have a slice of meat for a change. That's not equality. You're not asking to be treated in the same way, you're asking of far, far more of her than she is of you. 

I am not interested in veganism, it's unnatural..........man is an omnivore, If people choose to go vegan that's their choice, as long as it doesn't impact on me!

And you are not talking genuine equality, you are talking PC equality!............it is inequitable to weight someone's choice as more important than another's!

[walshie]

 

[chrisjpainter]

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

I am not interested in veganism, it's unnatural..........man is an omnivore, If people choose to go vegan that's their choice, as long as it doesn't impact on me!

And you are not talking genuine equality, you are talking PC equality!............it is inequitable to weight someone's choice as more important than another's!

No, I'm talking about the burden of ethical, moral value. You're weighing a belief that something is fine to do as equalling a belief that something is wrong to do, because it's just a matter of opinion. But that's not what is going on with the vegan debate. The moral equivalent and thus the equalling value of belief would be:

Eating meat is a moral right and must be done = Eating meat is a moral wrong and must not be done. Opposing, but of equal value.

'not being interested in veganism' is fine. It's an opinion. what you're not saying is that veganism is morally abhorrent. As you've said, you don't see it as a moral must to eat meat, so you hold less strong opinions on the matter. So, which should be give the greater deference: the strong conviction or the weak conviction? 

Let's say you're not a fan off Christmas jumpers. You wouldn't wear one, but don't care beyond that. Let's say Comrade Corbyn says he wants to ban shooting. I'm guessing you'd be outraged. Cue arguments about countryside management, understanding where food comes from, pest control issues, way of life, tradition etc...and rightly so. If Corbyn said to you 'Oh but it's okay because I'm also going to ban Christmas jumpers, so those two balance out, so you can still vote for me.' I wouldn't put it past him, because he's inexplicable at the best of times, but you wouldn't say, 'oh that's true, they're of equal weight, because they're both opinions. Fair's fair, I can see myself voting for you'

Soooo. Yes give the man a meal and be happy to have both sister and boyfriend at your wedding and are comfortable being there.

58 minutes ago, walshie said:

 

Haha! I do love this. I've also always wondered what would happen if someone could somehow prove that plants have some sense of pain - or at least knowledge of cutting off of limbs and leaves and such...

Edited July 18, 2018 by chrisjpainter

[Vince Green]

Lots of people are turning Vegan on health grounds, they just want to live longer. Not a bad reason when all said and done. I don't get the problem. They are the future given the cost of producing meat.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Vince Green

[Saltings]

if for health reasons poor bloke     if lifestyle choice  vegan kryptonite    smoked bacon egg over easy on a door step   if that don't change him put the best vegan food on the table you can and he will rave on about the best wedding ever and a new best friend forever you can take him fishing and shooting and slowly introduce him to kill it cook it eat it  may the gods be with you??

[Mice!]

We'll that was an interesting read, can't say I'm surprised by the vegan bashings but i am at the stuff them attitude.

my better half is a vegi and has been since she was ten, probably her mums cooking, every wedding we've been to she has been offered an alternative meal, she doesn't complain when we eat meat and cooks meat for me and the kids.

her brother is just about the same but used to eat chicken now him and his misses have more or less gone vegan, on the grounds meat dairy is bad for you this is healthier, and i doubt there are many on here as fit as he is ( makes me sick ?) but again he never makes a comment on what i eat and is a proper sound lad, as might be your sisters fella.

The vegan chap might not have been mentioned simply because it was early days in the relationship who knows?

weddings always seem to bring out the worst in families, what you've described to eat sounds like heaven to me, but i certainly wouldn't go alienating your sister for the sake of a couple of meals.

tell them, at the pub so neutral ground what the menu is, ask what they would like to eat for lunch then forget about it, there is enough to think and worry about with an upcoming wedding.

And don't try to make a brew with rice milk ???

[Prospero]

The vegan bit is bad enough, although I would do meal for him as it is the right thing to do.

 

The feminist bit worries me. Modern feminists are just bigoted man haters.

[walshie]

Can a man even be a feminist? 

[BritishShooting]

I can't quote each response but thanks for the input it's made some amusing reading. 

I definitely think initially I need to be more open minded as highlighted, be accommodating however I won't allow it to become a big deal or impede on the big day.

I'm meeting my old dears tonight for the local pub quiz and I've suggested my sister and he comes along. The pub pass around chips, sandwiches, sausage rolls etc. on platters table to table so it will be an ideal opportunity to suss him out. Plenty of old boys and farmers in there to who like to pass compliments to the female bar staff, so we shall see if that bothers him also.

If he seems laid back and not likely to be imposing his views on guests he can come along, be provided with a small selection of vegan food whilst the other men eat copious amounts of meat and gawp at the bridesmaids cleavage. (Hopefully this doesn't bring out the feminatze side)

I'll be sure to update if he comes along this evening.

[panoma1]

10 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

No, I'm talking about the burden of ethical, moral value. You're weighing a belief that something is fine to do as equalling a belief that something is wrong to do, because it's just a matter of opinion. But that's not what is going on with the vegan debate. The moral equivalent and thus the equalling value of belief would be:

Eating meat is a moral right and must be done = Eating meat is a moral wrong and must not be done. Opposing, but of equal value.

'not being interested in veganism' is fine. It's an opinion. what you're not saying is that veganism is morally abhorrent. As you've said, you don't see it as a moral must to eat meat, so you hold less strong opinions on the matter. So, which should be give the greater deference: the strong conviction or the weak conviction? 

Let's say you're not a fan off Christmas jumpers. You wouldn't wear one, but don't care beyond that. Let's say Comrade Corbyn says he wants to ban shooting. I'm guessing you'd be outraged. Cue arguments about countryside management, understanding where food comes from, pest control issues, way of life, tradition etc...and rightly so. If Corbyn said to you 'Oh but it's okay because I'm also going to ban Christmas jumpers, so those two balance out, so you can still vote for me.' I wouldn't put it past him, because he's inexplicable at the best of times, but you wouldn't say, 'oh that's true, they're of equal weight, because they're both opinions. Fair's fair, I can see myself voting for you'

Soooo. Yes give the man a meal and be happy to have both sister and boyfriend at your wedding and are comfortable being there.

Haha! I do love this. I've also always wondered what would happen if someone could somehow prove that plants have some sense of pain - or at least knowledge of cutting off of limbs and leaves and such...

As you observe I'm not commenting on what is right or wrong, who am I to judge? I am making comment on giving one persons choice more weight than another's, because unless a particular diet is for medical reasons, that is what veganism is, a matter of choice!...I choose to shoot and fish, but I don't feel the need to impose my views and bore everyone about it!....and I don't force it down others throats!

Veganism is an extreme version of vegetarianism, I was in Brighton earlier in the year and on the main thouroughfare there was some sort of vegan stunt/publicity going on, blow up animals, balloons, chalk slogans on the pavement, lots of hippy types etc etc etc.....I wasn't interested.........I had no choice but to see and hear it! Why should their Extreme views be imposed on me?

Are you suggesting society should positive discriminate in favour of vegans?

 

[Vince Green]

I mean. its not as though he's a Tottenham supporter or anything like that

[panoma1]

11 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

Then you miss the point of veganism. What you're asking of your fictitious vegan sister is to go against something that is an incredibly, deeply, personal conviction. 

She's asking you to not have a slice of meat for a change. That's not equality. You're not asking to be treated in the same way, you're asking of her far, far more of her than she is of you. 

Too many assumptions there for me! Lol!

[chrisjpainter]

2 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

As you observe I'm not commenting on what is right or wrong, who am I to judge? I am making comment on giving one persons choice more weight than another's, because unless a particular diet is for medical reasons, that is what veganism is, a matter of choice!...I choose to shoot and fish, but I don't feel the need to impose my views and bore everyone about it!....and I don't force it down others throats!

Veganism is an extreme version of vegetarianism, I was in Brighton earlier in the year and on the main thouroughfare there was some sort of vegan stunt/publicity going on, blow up animals, balloons, chalk slogans on the pavement, lots of hippy types etc etc etc.....I wasn't interested.........I had no choice but to see and hear it! Why should their Extreme views be imposed on me?

Are you suggesting society should positive discriminate in favour of vegans?

 

You are though, because you're asking a vegan to cook you meat. It's basically saying 'I don't see the problem with eating meat, therefore you should cook me some, regardless of what you believe.'

That's free speech for you. In that situation they're being imposed on you, they're just telling you about it - admittedly in a very oppressive way. But they're not forcing you to follow their beliefs, so nothing's being imposed on you.

I am saying that, when they come into conflict, it is logical to cede the opinion that is based on a strong moral belief - but actually in practical terms that happens in so few circumstances - like this one. 'Political correctness gone mad' would be if restaurants ONLY served vegan food for fear of upsetting the vegans. Accommodating them by having options is not.

5 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Too many assumptions there for me! Lol!

How so? admittedly I'm assuming that she's vegan because of a moral code, but that's reasonable, I think. If it's because of dietary requirements or just not liking meat/animal products, then yes I'd agree that it'd be reasonable for her to cook you meat. But not if it's an issue of morality.

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, BritishShooting said:

I can't quote each response but thanks for the input it's made some amusing reading. 

I definitely think initially I need to be more open minded as highlighted, be accommodating however I won't allow it to become a big deal or impede on the big day.

I'm meeting my old dears tonight for the local pub quiz and I've suggested my sister and he comes along. The pub pass around chips, sandwiches, sausage rolls etc. on platters table to table so it will be an ideal opportunity to suss him out. Plenty of old boys and farmers in there to who like to pass compliments to the female bar staff, so we shall see if that bothers him also.

If he seems laid back and not likely to be imposing his views on guests he can come along, be provided with a small selection of vegan food whilst the other men eat copious amounts of meat and gawp at the bridesmaids cleavage. (Hopefully this doesn't bring out the feminatze side)

I'll be sure to update if he comes along this evening.

Glad to hear it, give the lad a chance as him and your sister might become a big part of each other's lives, if he abuses your hospitality or is disrespectful of your choices at least you were the bigger person and tried. Equally if he cares for your sister, regardless of his views of your choices he will be respectful of your lifestyle and not want to offend you, that's what life is about, you can have polar opposite opinions with people, but respect each others positions and even discuss them without imposing your views on each other.

Edited July 19, 2018 by 12gauge82

[panoma1]

Chrisjpainter,

I would not expect her to cook me meat, that would be her choice......it is just a way of saying.......if I am prepared to put myself out for someone, I would expect that person to be prepared to put themselves out for me!

But their extreme vegan views WERE being imposed on me, I had NO CHOICE but to see and hear them! Unless I walked around with my eyes shut and my fingers in my ears!

Assuming veganism is based on some moral objection, are you suggesting individuals and society should positively discriminate in favour of vegans? When most individuals and society do not share their moral objections? Using the same yardstick, are you suggesting society discriminates positively in favour of all minorities, who claim a moral objection to the accepted norm? Surely this is political correctness "gone mad"

Edited July 19, 2018 by panoma1