Panorama (Merged threads)

[Vince Green]

21 minutes ago, Scully said:

Nah...smells a bit fishy to me. 

So do any reloaders know of a website where you don’t need proof of a ticket for primers or powders? I’m pretty sure if it leant credence to the presenters agenda it would have been exposed during the making of the programme?

As Jaymo says, Probably other countries in Europe where you can do it

[PPP]

I find this all very strange... the cause of shooting and stabbing is well understood but the problem is never acknowledged like some dirty secret, murders are committed by gangs selling drugs and fighting for turf, surely the method of killing shouldn’t be the focus?

Notwithstanding the fact that illegal firearms aren’t exactly in short supply.

Bizarre..

[Vince Green]

Its about deflecting the blame, they can't stop the real problem so they create a cover story. All very sad really

44 minutes ago, rimmie said:

They conveniently forgot to mention you need a FAC to buy the primers and powder.

Yes but you don't need an FAC to possess them 

[stumfelter]

Shock, horror, man flies to America, buys antique then flies back.

[Dougy]

If you have ever gone through Heathrow with a licenced firearm, you would have been like me just,crying in your hands laughing at the bloke saying " you just have to declare that it's an antique firearm and thats it" 

You would not believe what a farce it is going through customs, showing your licence, then showing the "thick" customs staff which number is the serial number. Explaining what bullets are, it's a proper joke. 

[islandgun]

7 hours ago, guzzicat said:

I have thought for a long time some obsolete calibres were wide open to abuse 44rf, move firing pin,32rf, hilti rounds Etc where there is a willEtc.

 

35 minutes ago, Jega said:

Just finished watching this ,absolutely frightening the ease with which these guns can be brought legally into the u.k.

As a firearms certificate holder myself i am left wondering just why we have to go through the process of inspections , interviews etc to get licenced when a hand gun which is a banned weapon in the u.k.( post Dunblane) is so easy to get hold of.

As a by line there are an awful lot easier ways to arm one of these guns then was shown tonight ,those of us on here who shoot regularly will no doubt know these methods and be equally horrified .

+1

I didnt see the programme, but if its as you say,  then those who should be protesting the most should be those with the most to loose i,e FAC holders !

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, i did watch this and all i can say the sooner they close this loop hole of buying antique guns abroad the better, what an arsenal of weapons in the police lock up and the dealers, long time in prison?

Edited August 20, 2018 by oldypigeonpopper

[Dave-G]

I thought it was a fair expose to be fair. It IS totally amazing that anyone - 'us included' can buy a fully working pistol with less control than we have to undergo for legal firearms  

I'm sure there will still be an occasional dodgy firearms dealer to do the honours with primers and powder etc - or even a friend of a friend or shock horror - bring them over our unchecked borders.

[Jaymo]

9 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Its about deflecting the blame, they can't stop the real problem so they create a cover story. All very sad really

Yes but you don't need an FAC to possess them 

Indeed, and this ties in yours plus Scullys post- trip to the Continent to purchase and then return- no FAC required to hold.

The UK requirement to have an FAC to purchase was I believe not mandatory, but something the RFD’s have been encouraged/requested to do? 

‘Fishy’ , I’m sure we all have either witnessed, heard or know of things that are out of the ordinary- no need to post them up on an open forum really is there, unless we want to start a ‘Name & Shame’ category? And I’m not just talking about Shooting either, but if you can say “No” to anything untoward then I have it on good faith that the Vatican are looking for people for this campaign ‘ www.im-a-saint.vaticancity.it

[Vince Green]

Where crime is concerned you cannot create a vacuum. Knife crime is way worse than gun crime and the victims much more plentiful.

Over 1200 knife related incidents in London alone in the first four months of this year.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Vince Green

[Wasabi]

I thought it was a fair representation of the problem. I've thought for a long time a lot of these weapons could be converted. Loophole certainly needs closing.

[Scully]

45 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Indeed, and this ties in yours plus Scullys post- trip to the Continent to purchase and then return- no FAC required to hold.

The UK requirement to have an FAC to purchase was I believe not mandatory, but something the RFD’s have been encouraged/requested to do? 

‘Fishy’ , I’m sure we all have either witnessed, heard or know of things that are out of the ordinary- no need to post them up on an open forum really is there, unless we want to start a ‘Name & Shame’ category? And I’m not just talking about Shooting either, but if you can say “No” to anything untoward then I have it on good faith that the Vatican are looking for people for this campaign ‘ www.im-a-saint.vaticancity.it

Ah well. It’s not about naming and shaming, it’s about backing up a claim you made. Never mind. 

The programme claimed it was easier to buy a gun and ‘readily available ammunition’, than it was to dispose of a kettle, and went on to explain how the ammo was made but failed to explain where they got hold of primers and powders, which I was led to believe you needed a ticket to purchase. Am I wrong? Are people tripping to the continent and bringing back supplies of primers and powders? If so, I wonder why this wasn’t  mentioned on the programme? After all, if it’s legal to do so, as it is likewise with an actual gun, it makes me wonder why that wasn’t mentioned also. 

I feel a major letter writing campaign coming on; it would appear it’s not just posters on who are acting ‘fishy’. ?

I’m off this morning so will have a trawl through sites and see how easy it is to get hold of primers etc. There were gaping holes in some of the claims made, along with emotive descriptions and dramatic gangsta rap music and clandestine camera work. Why did they feel the need to covertly buy a revolver when it’s perfectly legal to do so? Dramatic effect? The programme would have been farcical if it hadn’t been about such a serious topic.

 

[decoyman]

What a shocking programme. ,

Why have the BBC funded the purchase of 2 x delightful antiques, paid 5k.  Paid production team air fares to USA and then given them to police for "safe-keeping"..

Yours and my licence fee funds this drivel. They could have at least re sold them through the auction houses, might even had made a profit.

Were all doomed.

[Jaymo]

I’m trying to download the programme Scully here as wasn’t able to watch it last night, internet here is slower than a snail ( been promised fibre since 2015). Have to use a VPN too.

Will set it to download during the day when we’re out.

But if comments are right so far then yes, there are probably glaring errors- but it wouldn’t be sensational journalism if you were able to point out the failings in a programme as it wouldn’t hold so much ‘water’ to any arguements.

Covert filming does indeed imply a ‘seedy’ world, I could have filmed covertly and made us buying Donuts in Disneyland Paris look seedy a couple of days ago- it’s all about presentation of facts.

Im sure you can’t wait, but will be back with comments after I have seen the programme ?

[Jaymo]

10 hours ago, Dougy said:

If you have ever gone through Heathrow with a licenced firearm, you would have been like me just,crying in your hands laughing at the bloke saying " you just have to declare that it's an antique firearm and thats it" 

You would not believe what a farce it is going through customs, showing your licence, then showing the "thick" customs staff which number is the serial number. Explaining what bullets are, it's a proper joke. 

Tell me about it, I have it at Dover each time- some comments have me wetting myself and I now know where the saying “**** from elbow” comes from 

[Scully]

Jolly good. I’ll be watching it again on iplayer at some point to gather info’; let’s face it, who else is going to complain? ?

[Salopian]

Well I sat and watched this sensational drivel which did not  one bit of good for the Black man in Britain . It was basically Rapper advert for Gang War Fair .

I see a few more were shot in London last night?

Come on Met . get a grip for mercies sake , you no doubt have a very good idea what is going on but because of PC and fear of someone playing the Race card you sit by and do very little .

Get one thing very straight , any de-activated weapon can be made functional by a determined engineer with a workshop at their disposal , ammunition , cases and components can be made or sourced . New Laws will do nothing except create red tape . The Lawless do not observe LAW.

Stop the tide of violence at source , in the Gangs and because of lack of education and severe penalties for criminals .

Call me a Dinosaur but bring back hardship in Jails , poor food , hard work and no privaliges and let us see where that gets us . Deportation to Colonies where a lot of our migrant vermin comes from may also help.

The featured Barrister was an embarrassment , put the kettle on Mother before it gets confiscated .

Edited August 21, 2018 by Salopian

[Scully]

Following all the endorsements of the programme makers above,  I’m finding it extremely puzzling as to why absolutely no one on here has exposed this ‘loophole’ to the relevant authorities! Why has it taken a BBC ‘investigative’ journalism team to expose this travesty? Isn’t it a bit late to be claiming it’s time this loophole was closed if you’ve all known about it and the possible consequences for so long? Just a thought. 

I still want to know where the primers and powders have come from, and if some of you ticket holders are bringing them back from the continent......why, when you can easily and just as legally buy them in this country? I know there are no restrictions on the number you can hold ( or at least there wasn’t when I reloaded ) but are they cheaper on the continent? 

As a result of this programme, gaping holes and all, legislation could now see antique firearms owners needing a license for something they can’t use, plus restrictions on reloading and the buying of components, whilst having absolutely no effect on the numbers of people shot and killed with firearms. If the claims of the two ‘gangsta’ rappers are to be believed, antique firearms are the least of our worries.....’.38’s, .22’s, 9mm’s, Glocks, submachine guns, shotguns....yeah, loads of shotguns.’ 

If I didn’t care about shooting as much as I do, I’d wish for a complete and utter ban, just so I could discover who or what the rozzers were going to blame when it had no effect on killings. Interesting.

 

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, Salopian said:

Well I sat and watched this sensational drivel which did not  one bit of good for the Black man in Britain . It was basically Rapper advert for Gang War Fair .

I see a few more were shot in London last night?

Come on Met . get a grip for mercies sake , you no doubt have a very good idea what is going on but because of PC and fear of someone playing the Race card you sit by and do very little .

Get one thing very straight , any de-activated weapon can be made functional by a determined engineer with a workshop at their disposal , ammunition , cases and components can be made or sourced . New Laws will do nothing except create red tape . The Lawless do not observe LAW.

Stop the tide of violence at source , in the Gangs and because of lack of education and severe penalties for criminals .

Call me a Dinosaur but bring back hardship in Jails , poor food , hard work and no privaliges and let us see where that gets us . Deportation to Colonies where a lot of our migrant vermin comes from may also help.

The featured Barrister was an embarrassment , put the kettle on Mother before it gets confiscated .

? I’ll have to look back through it but there was also an outrageous statement regarding white men and black deaths! 

[old man]

11 hours ago, Dougy said:

If you have ever gone through Heathrow with a licenced firearm, you would have been like me just,crying in your hands laughing at the bloke saying " you just have to declare that it's an antique firearm and thats it" 

You would not believe what a farce it is going through customs, showing your licence, then showing the "thick" customs staff which number is the serial number. Explaining what bullets are, it's a proper joke. 

Of course Dougy, part of the constant push against us will always be the ease of rules being circumvented.even when not true? The anti gun faction never let the truth get in the way of a good agenda.

[Hamster]

10 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, i did watch this and all i can say the sooner they close this loop hole of buying antique guns abroad the better, what an arsenal of weapons in the police lock up and the dealers, long time in prison?

 

1 hour ago, Wasabi said:

I thought it was a fair representation of the problem. I've thought for a long time a lot of these weapons could be converted. Loophole certainly needs closing.

 

10 hours ago, Dave-G said:

I thought it was a fair expose to be fair. It IS totally amazing that anyone - 'us included' can buy a fully working pistol with less control than we have to undergo for legal firearms  

I'm sure there will still be an occasional dodgy firearms dealer to do the honours with primers and powder etc - or even a friend of a friend or shock horror - bring them over our unchecked borders.

Same here, I simply can't understand why anyone, least of all us law abiding gun owners, would object to a programme exposing loopholes allowing criminal access to antique firearms ! 

 

52 minutes ago, decoyman said:

What a shocking programme. ,

Why have the BBC funded the purchase of 2 x delightful antiques, paid 5k.  Paid production team air fares to USA and then given them to police for "safe-keeping"..

Yours and my licence fee funds this drivel. They could have at least re sold them through the auction houses, might even had made a profit.

Were all doomed.

£5k is peanuts in BBC broadcasting terms, if it helps save lives and close even one loophole then it's money well spent. 

 

6 minutes ago, Salopian said:

Well I sat and watched this sensational drivel which not one bit of good for the Black man in Britain . It was basically Rapper advert for Gang War Fair .

I see a few more were shot in London last night?

Come on Met . get a grip for mercies sake , you no doubt have a very good idea what is going on but because of PC and fear of someone playing the Race card you sit by and do very little .

Get one thing very straight , any de-activated weapon can be made functional by a determined engineer with a workshop at their disposal , ammunition , cases and components can be made or sourced . New Laws will do nothing except create red tape . The Lawless do not observe LAW.

Stop the tide of violence at source , in the Gangs and because of lack of education and severe penalties for criminals .

Call me a Dinosaur but bring back hardship in Jails , poor food , hard work and no privaliges and let us see where that gets us . Deportation to Colonies where a lot of our migrant vermin comes from may also help.

The featured Barrister was an embarrassment , put the kettle on Mother before it gets confiscated .

Don't mind if I do , every chance you get to associate crime with ehem, your own predispositions. Perhaps you failed to notice that much of these crimes were being committed by "all sorts" and most were born here. 

 

3 minutes ago, Scully said:

? I’ll have to look back through it but there was also an outrageous statement regarding white men and black deaths! 

That was indeed an unnecessary interjection, we should address and fight crime not point accusatory fingers tainted with colour. 

[Scully]

As a serious journalist and what could have been a serious piece of journalism, I would have been more impressed if rather than stating the bent RFD was a ‘white man exploitting a loophole to provide guns which kill black’ people, he had refused to partake in a ‘brother’ handshake and asked the two gangsta rappers why black men are so intent on killing each other. 

He also claimed it was predominantly ‘middle aged white men’ buying these guns, or to put it another way, collectors? Or is it solely white men buying these guns and then selling them to black men? The programme and the journalist opened up more questions than for some reason either cared to answer. 

[islandgun]

Sensationalist journalism , well theres a surprise !

More knife crime than gun,  more knives than guns and they are freely available ,

We have very sensible gun licencing laws in this country which helps to keep illegal guns away from criminals if there is a loophole then close it

Better to have a licence to hold an obsolete gun than a complete ban

[Scully]

I've had a search online ( not an exhaustive one admittedly ) and all the online suppliers I looked at stated primers could not be sent via mail but could be sent to a RFD, where I'm assuming the buyer would need to produce a valid ticket. So where are the primers coming from and where is this easily available ( as the barrister claimed ) ammunition coming from? 

[pinfireman]

12 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, i did watch this and all i can say the sooner they close this loop hole of buying antique guns abroad the better, what an arsenal of weapons in the police lock up and the dealers, long time in prison?

and you believe all the pictures of the weapons in police lock up were the items discussed? Every time there is an amnesty, TV show a brief (very brief!!!) shot of the weapons handed in, and describe them as firearms....weapons that can be fired, when a closer look (if you have recorded the programme) shows this is often not the case! Old air rifles and pistols, and parts thereof, are included in the "haul"!

55 minutes ago, Scully said:

As a serious journalist and what could have been a serious piece of journalism, I would have been more impressed if rather than stating the bent RFD was a ‘white man exploitting a loophole to provide guns which kill black’ people, he had refused to partake in a ‘brother’ handshake and asked the two gangsta rappers why black men are so intent on killing each other. 

He also claimed it was predominantly ‘middle aged white men’ buying these guns, or to put it another way, collectors? Or is it solely white men buying these guns and then selling them to black men? The programme and the journalist opened up more questions than for some reason either cared to answer. 

Correct!