Conspiracy Theory Question...

[Hamster]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Munzy - good for you. Read it how you want - I will stick with reality.

This my exact wording : and millions of overtly nationalistic types (I won't refer to them as racists even though many fit that description) because I myself preferred him to Hillary as did millions of ordinary people who fell for his pro Peace spiel.

I didn't refer to most of his followers being racists but many clearly are, the KKK have adopted him as their own for a start as have large sections of the overtly nationalistic types who can kindly be described as having a dislike towards anything not pure murican, even the MAGA symbolism has at least partially been taken to heart by some as meaning to wrench the country back from those not perceived as belonging to the original "pioneers". You can't seriously argue this is anything but reality. 

[Westward]

10 minutes ago, Hamster said:

This my exact wording : and millions of overtly nationalistic types (I won't refer to them as racists even though many fit that description) because I myself preferred him to Hillary as did millions of ordinary people who fell for his pro Peace spiel.

I didn't refer to most of his followers being racists but many clearly are, the KKK have adopted him as their own for a start as have large sections of the overtly nationalistic types who can kindly be described as having a dislike towards anything not pure murican, even the MAGA symbolism has at least partially been taken to heart by some as meaning to wrench the country back from those not perceived as belonging to the original "pioneers". You can't seriously argue this is anything but reality. 

I think that's a fair assessment. America has a bigger problem with racial disharmony than either the government or the (mostly) liberal mainstream media will admit to. And It's not just from the mostly white Americans of European heritage either. Whilst to a large extent the Hispanic population tries hard to integrate, there's a sizeable percentage of black Americans who don't feel at all inclined to integrate with a society they feel has rejected them and for the most part the increasing Muslim population feels little or no need to integrate either; something we in Britain are familiar with. It's not that Trump is a racist, it's that he appeals to voters who feel forgotten or excluded by the proponents of inclusiveness, diversity, positive discrimination, gender realignment, same sex marriages and all the other 21st century bleeding heart liberal ideas that run so counter to the psyche of the traditional libertarian American.

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, Westward said:

I think that's a fair assessment. America has a bigger problem with racial disharmony than either the government or the (mostly) liberal mainstream media will admit to. And It's not just from the mostly white Americans of European heritage either. Whilst to a large extent the Hispanic population tries hard to integrate, there's a sizeable percentage of black Americans who don't feel at all inclined to integrate with a society they feel has rejected them and for the most part the increasing Muslim population feels little or no need to integrate either; something we in Britain are familiar with. It's not that Trump is a racist, it's that he appeals to voters who feel forgotten or excluded by the proponents of inclusiveness, diversity, positive discrimination, gender realignment, same sex marriages and all the other 21st century bleeding heart liberal ideas that run so counter to the psyche of the traditional libertarian American.

Spot on, again.

[Scully]

14 hours ago, Westward said:

I think that's a fair assessment. America has a bigger problem with racial disharmony than either the government or the (mostly) liberal mainstream media will admit to. And It's not just from the mostly white Americans of European heritage either. Whilst to a large extent the Hispanic population tries hard to integrate, there's a sizeable percentage of black Americans who don't feel at all inclined to integrate with a society they feel has rejected them and for the most part the increasing Muslim population feels little or no need to integrate either; something we in Britain are familiar with. It's not that Trump is a racist, it's that he appeals to voters who feel forgotten or excluded by the proponents of inclusiveness, diversity, positive discrimination, gender realignment, same sex marriages and all the other 21st century bleeding heart liberal ideas that run so counter to the psyche of the traditional libertarian American.

Good post. 

[Vince Green]

On ‎15‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 15:18, Gordon R said:

The sweeping generalisation of Americans voters is in poor taste and inaccurate. The comment is unworthy of you.

As a regular traveller to the US and a former employee of an American company for most of my life I have always been more than slightly shocked at how ill informed Americans are by their own news organisations. I do actually now believe that is intentional. At one time I believed it was the overbearing effect of Provincial newspapers and TV stations only giving out local news but that belief doesn't hold water any more with modern technology. I can only now conclude that it is deliberately controlling pubic opinion.

They will talk to about "I-ran" or "E-raq" but they don't even know where they are, much less do they know the history of the conflict or the ramifications. The reason is because they are not told, 

They don't have the equivalent of The Andrew Marr interviews or Panorama questioning what is be said to them. 

[Gordon R]

Vince - I accept that - it seems accurate to me, but I take umbrage when people starting sticking racist labels on a swathe of voters, because they voted for Trump.

Trump has many shortcomings, but he seems a cut above anyone Europe has to offer. Although dissimilar to Putin - who I have no time for - both stick up for their own country in contrast to our current PM. I think Maggie Thatcher - another I had little time for - would have got on well with both Trump and Putin.

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Vince - I accept that - it seems accurate to me, but I take umbrage when people starting sticking racist labels on a swathe of voters, because they voted for Trump.

Trump has many shortcomings, but he seems a cut above anyone Europe has to offer. Although dissimilar to Putin - who I have no time for - both stick up for their own country in contrast to our current PM. I think Maggie Thatcher - another I had little time for - would have got on well with both Trump and Putin.

Its hard to get a balance, I see the use of Nationalism as a weapon used by some to get the mob cheering. That said, I am a Nationalist where Brexit is concerned. The Nazis taught Germans they were the Master Race, citing Darwin to 'prove' that thousands of tough northern European winters had bred a tougher and more resourceful people than the lazy peoples of southern Europe who just sat around eating olives.

My mate lives in South Carolina, its like a film set from The Dukes of Hazzard. That's Trump country, the people are very pleasant and extremely polite but almost childlike in their understanding of good and bad. America are the good guys, we kill the bad guys. That's what they are told from before they can walk. Yet they freely watch a staple diet of films showing their government, police and the administration as corrupt.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Vince Green

[Rewulf]

7 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Its hard to get a balance, I see the use of Nationalism as a weapon used by some to get the mob cheering. That said, I am a Nationalist where Brexit is concerned. The Nazis taught Germans they were the Master Race, citing Darwin to 'prove' that thousands of tough northern European winters had bred a tougher and more resourceful people than the lazy peoples of southern Europe who just sat around eating olives.

My mate lives in South Carolina, its like a film set from The Dukes of Hazzard. That's Trump country, the people are very pleasant and extremely polite but almost childlike in their understanding of good and bad. America are the good guys, we kill the bad guys. That's what they are told from before they can walk. Yet they freely watch a staple diet of films showing their government, police and the administration as corrupt.

Have you ever heard of the  'Hard times theory' ?

As far as Americans seeing themselves as the good guys, this is true.
The stories and films depicting their government or police as being bad and corrupt, also true.
But those stories always end with the good people overcoming the bad guys and restoring the balance of justice and liberty.
Usually with lashings of righteous violence, or judicial retribution.
The American way.

[Dave-G]

I'm slightly dyslexic and almost didnt post this because its going to be clumsy.

I think NWO, globalisation, call it what you will is here to stay and the European group of countries wish to boost the size of their global footprint. I'm thinking about a simple map with 'blocks of different colours for simplicity. India, China, USA and Russia have very large blocks for example. I'm thinking of this in ultimate terms of influence, commerce and war.

Cameron tried to ensure our minimal footprint didn't get marginalised too much whilst being the same crayon colouring as our nearest and mostly friendly neighbours so made efforts that failed. Its beginning to look (to me) like EU wants to substantially increase its footprint by easing the way for the African continent to become part of a much bigger block but is struggling with its very different culture that could undo it all.

I think Brexit is a second attempt to up Camerons game - by way of an expensive drawn out bluff that will hopefully put us in a better position within the block called EU - but protect us from the worst of the changes that could destroy us too.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Dave-G
typo

[RockySpears]

On 14/09/2018 at 22:10, Munzy said:

A simple fabrication of the vote count could have been organised to get a remain vote.

  This is very hard to do with paper ballots, not so hard with electronic ones.  Our voting process can be watched, up close, in the room and with the ballot boxes, by ANY UK citizen ( https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/observing-elections-and-referendums just apply at least 10 days in advance).  Except of course, postal, hence my belief that this should only ever be used in extremum, If you are not in the country, you can't vote (service personnel etc aside).

  I also think that no one realises just how mightily cheesed-off many people are.  They are not "racists" in the way bandied about by the media and liberal politicians, they just see their country (I feel that we can call it "our" country) as becoming almost unrecognisable.  London, I guess, is the extreme, and no member of my family goes there anymore despite a love of theatre, the arts and museums, we just cannot bear to be amongst so many "not us" people.  This has nothing to do with any race or religion thing, it is just that that is not what we are used to, not what we want.  We want to hear english spoken by the the majority and not just us as we walk through Oxford St.

  The Liberal Elite don't like us, the brain-washed young don't like us, but for now, we make up the majority (obviously not in London:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20680565 ).

 

RS

[Jaymo]

[Scully]

34 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

😂I like that. 👍

[henry d]

17 hours ago, RockySpears said:

  The Liberal Elite don't like us, the brain-washed young don't like us, but for now, we make up the majority (obviously not in London:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20680565 ).

 

RS

Your link is 6 years out of date

[grrclark]

18 hours ago, RockySpears said:

 I also think that no one realises just how mightily cheesed-off many people are.  They are not "racists" in the way bandied about by the media and liberal politicians, they just see their country (I feel that we can call it "our" country) as becoming almost unrecognisable.  London, I guess, is the extreme, and no member of my family goes there anymore despite a love of theatre, the arts and museums, we just cannot bear to be amongst so many "not us" people.  This has nothing to do with any race or religion thing, it is just that that is not what we are used to, not what we want.  We want to hear english spoken by the the majority and not just us as we walk through Oxford St.

  The Liberal Elite don't like us, the brain-washed young don't like us, but for now, we make up the majority (obviously not in London:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20680565 ).

 

RS

You’re absolutely spot on, what you describe is not racism.  It is actually a pretty reasonable attempt at describing xenophobia.

[harkom]

Is the NWO - whatever that is supposed to be - the aim/project driven by that global benefactor George Soros? Yes, the same speculator who reportedly "made" billions out of collapsing markets and mismanagement of national economies by the likes of e.g. Gordon Brown/Blair, et al.

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, harkom said:

Is the NWO - whatever that is supposed to be - the aim/project driven by that global benefactor George Soros? Yes, the same speculator who reportedly "made" billions out of collapsing markets and mismanagement of national economies by the likes of e.g. Gordon Brown/Blair, et al.

Soros likes chaos, chaos makes him money.
You talk of him in the past tense, he is fully active to this day, and one of his many 'chaos' projects is actively trying to overturn Brexit.
For the benefit of those so misinformed, they didnt know what they were voting for ?
Nope, just his own.

[Vince Green]

10 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Soros likes chaos, chaos makes him money.
You talk of him in the past tense, he is fully active to this day, and one of his many 'chaos' projects is actively trying to overturn Brexit.
For the benefit of those so misinformed, they didnt know what they were voting for ?
Nope, just his own.

George Soros gave Gina Miller £400, 000 to fund her campaign. 

[Rewulf]

10 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

George Soros gave Gina Miller £400, 000 to fund her campaign. 

Yes, he was the 'mystery' benefactor behind her high court attempt to 'defend democratic process' 
He has also pledged another 6 mil towards projects like , the peoples vote, all good democratic stuff, unlike the actual referendum itself of course 

Id had a punt on these lot getting a bit of 'funding' too.

https://euwatch.org/tony-blair-and-nick-clegg-have-been-meeting-with-top-eu-officials-to-stop-brexit/

[ferguson_tom]

I am not normally into all the conspiracy theories but i certainly think Theresa May and Tory party actively tried to loose the election so they didnt have to be the ones driving Brexit. I am also 80% sure they are now trying to get a bad deal so they can go back to the public for a final vote with three options: bad deal, no deal or stay in the EU. They will be expecting the people to just vote for staying in the EU but i honestly think this will bite them on the **** and see a "No Deal" outcome.

Persoanlly i dont think the No Deal is actually the end of the world but they would have to get on with it quickly so companies dont have the chance to move overseas and will just crack on with things and by time they have caught up possibly realise the extra bit of paper to import or export isnt worth upsticks and moving for.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Tom you may well be correct, I just hope you are not!

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, ferguson_tom said:

I am not normally into all the conspiracy theories but i certainly think Theresa May and Tory party actively tried to loose the election so they didnt have to be the ones driving Brexit. I am also 80% sure they are now trying to get a bad deal so they can go back to the public for a final vote with three options: bad deal, no deal or stay in the EU. They will be expecting the people to just vote for staying in the EU but i honestly think this will bite them on the **** and see a "No Deal" outcome.

Persoanlly i dont think the No Deal is actually the end of the world but they would have to get on with it quickly so companies dont have the chance to move overseas and will just crack on with things and by time they have caught up possibly realise the extra bit of paper to import or export isnt worth upsticks and moving for.

May has nailed her colours to the mast in the last few days, and stated..

'There will be no second referendum, to do so would undermine democracy in this country', quite rightly.

'If Chequers is rejected by parliament OR the EU , its NO deal', arguably again, rightly so.

Chequers is a massive compromise (a compromise too far IMHO) but it does get a deal, and avoids the uncertainty on BOTH sides.
Now that we have a semblance of what we are fully prepared to do , the EU seems to want to make compromises from their red lines.
Or , its just a front to get us biting at their proverbial carrot, before dumping us at the last minute with a no deal.
Probably using Ireland as the final blow.
The more likely scenario.
 

[RockySpears]

2 hours ago, grrclark said:

It is actually a pretty reasonable attempt at describing xenophobia.

  No, I am not afraid of them, I just feel that they are out of place as a permanent part of our lives.  grrclark - You either play Devils advocate or try and twist my words.

When I have been to France or Singapore, Kenya or Turkey, I was not afraid of them, they were the reason I went there.  In a foreign country I expect a lot of foreigners and have no issues or fears of them.  I want to try their food, listen to their music and for the most part envy their weather.  However, landing back in Blighty should see an end to "foreigners" outnumbering my countrymen.  I fail to see why that is an unreasonable wish.

  I believe it is the politicians and MSM 's failure to understand the above paragraph that is the cause of all these "surprise" results.  There is no surprise at all.

 

RS

[Rewulf]

By accident or design ?
The mad, Moscow poisoners take on the EU migrant 'crisis'

https://www.rt.com/news/438753-putin-eu-migration-wont-stop/

[Dave-G]

19 minutes ago, RockySpears said:

  No, I am not afraid of them, I just feel that they are out of place as a permanent part of our lives.  grrclark - You either play Devils advocate or try and twist my words.

When I have been to France or Singapore, Kenya or Turkey, I was not afraid of them, they were the reason I went there.  In a foreign country I expect a lot of foreigners and have no issues or fears of them.  I want to try their food, listen to their music and for the most part envy their weather.  However, landing back in Blighty should see an end to "foreigners" outnumbering my countrymen.  I fail to see why that is an unreasonable wish.

  I believe it is the politicians and MSM 's failure to understand the above paragraph that is the cause of all these "surprise" results.  There is no surprise at all.

 

RS

Many of us don't resent foreign people or their colour but resent some their cultures that are simply far too wide of our own to accept, and yes, be cajoled into allowing. There have been far too many slippery slopes leading towards a more right thinking Brit's stance.

I mean issues such as wives following behind husbands and not being allowed out alone, child brides, female genital mutilation, burka's, more freedom to speak their minds than us - don't use certain words or phrases, halal meat as standard, migrants rioting etc. The grooming gangs have done some immigrant groups no favours - they simply don't care about our daughters, but we're expected to care about them? They have larger families than us and are breaking our benefits budget to the point we now suffer our services being trimmed: Police, NHS, schools etc.

By all means have them here if they would accept our deep rooted cultures are in place rather than trying to change ours to suit theirs. I feel many migrants want to TAKE our country and if being patriotic is called something else then so be it. Some people will call it a conspiracy.

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, ferguson_tom said:

Persoanlly i dont think the No Deal is actually the end of the world but they would have to get on with it quickly so companies dont have the chance to move overseas and will just crack on with things and by time they have caught up possibly realise the extra bit of paper to import or export isnt worth upsticks and moving for.

No deal is better than the Chequers fudged deal that's on the table at the moment