CORBYN's Leaders Speech

[ShootingEgg]

22 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

You’d only waste it on ammo ... don’t know why you can’t hit anything 😜😂😂

Pahahahaha.. Ive been practicing... And well now I have the landy to throw money at... 

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

Pahahahaha.. Ive been practicing... And well now I have the landy to throw money at... 

You’d be bankrupt before that thing passes an MOT lol. 

Thank god it’s exempt  

Edited September 26, 2018 by Lloyd90

[Salopian]

Pardon my asking , but are all MP's corrupt and incapable of representing their electorate?

Why are we in such a mess over Brexit? We were not in the EU before Maggie dumped us in it and if I remember correctly we did alright with our economy then. It costs us a fortune to be in it , money that could be put to better use in Britain. We don't need a Referendum , we voted already to leave , we don't need a dithering Mrs May or a Loony Corbyn . We need all of them to get off there backsides and debate and work on things we the electorate need .

As for HS2 put another track alongside the one we already have , there is room and we could save millions of £'s and beautiful Countryside .

That was a Party Political  Broadcast on behalf of Common Sense.

[Kalahari]

I am afraid we were in the EEC/EU years before Mrs. Thatcher.

David.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, Kalahari said:

I am afraid we were in the EEC/EU years before Mrs. Thatcher.

David.

Correct (sort of); it was Ted Heath who joined us in 1973.  It was however 'sold' to us as only a 'common market' and arguably the whole thing converted to EU/EEC in 1993 following the Maastricht Treaty (which was in John Major's time, so actually after Mrs Thatcher (who was not in favour)).

[pinfireman]

18 hours ago, Deker said:

Everytime I hear him talk I just wonder how much more that workers will be taxed, there's no way he can implement his promises without taxing us more, companies who already play the tax avoidance game are just going to keep doing it and there's only the workers left to pick up the tab

Company CEO,s with any brains will already be moving their HQ,s abroad!  Corbyn is a total idiot!

15 hours ago, Gordon R said:

The man is not a full shilling. His "Six points" are unattainable - they are not possible no matter who is negotiating. All this talk of a General Election, so that Jezzer (the terrorists' friend) can negotiate himself, is beyond silly. 

Interviewed today, he couldn't remember what the six points were.

Di Abbott is in good company.

The two you mention do not have a single brain cell between them! What a shabby mess Labour have allowed themselves to fall into!

[pinfireman]

12 hours ago, blackbird said:

No matter what party is in power the ordinary working man & woman will suffer. Watching all the party’s arguing in Westminster is like watching the muppet show.

True, but some muppets are more dangerously inept than others!  When it comes to voting, just remember, Corbyn has never attended a memorial service for ANY British service personnel, or civilians, lost in war or to terrorist actions.....................but he has attended memorials for IRA terrorists, and sympathised with numerous other terror organisations worldwide! And if that does not give you a reason to vote against him,  what about his slavish admiration for the Socialist government running Venezuela! That country has the second largest oil reserves in the world, yet their currency, the Bolivar, currently stands at 316,510.74 to £1  !!!You need a wheelbarrow to carry the money to buy a loaf of bread!  £3-50 makes you a Venezuelan millionaire!  And this is what Steptoe Corbyn wants for Britain!

12 hours ago, Westward said:

It's a cyclical thing, look up Denis Healey on Wikiquote. There's nothing new coming out of Corbyn etc., it's just that the there's a whole new generation around who've never had to watch the country being eviscerated by the bonkers lefties.

Ultimately and regardless of how they dress it up, it's all about taking away from the producers (i.e. greedy capitalists in loonyspeak) who've created wealth and giving to the non-producers (i.e. honest working folk in loonyspeak) who can't be bothered to improve their own situation.

What they always miss is that most of the better off in society are in that position because they're a lot smarter than the loony left who currently steer the Labour ship and will always find ways to defeat whatever extreme measures the Labour nutjobs try to implement. It's always the medium earners rather than the rich who end up getting shredded by Labour chancellors and since they're often floating voters, Labour's own failing policies always guarantee that the tories will return to power.

Usually to clean up the garbage that Labour leave behind!

[pinfireman]

1 hour ago, Salopian said:

Pardon my asking , but are all MP's corrupt and incapable of representing their electorate?

Why are we in such a mess over Brexit? We were not in the EU before Maggie dumped us in it and if I remember correctly we did alright with our economy then. It costs us a fortune to be in it , money that could be put to better use in Britain. We don't need a Referendum , we voted already to leave , we don't need a dithering Mrs May or a Loony Corbyn . We need all of them to get off there backsides and debate and work on things we the electorate need .

As for HS2 put another track alongside the one we already have , there is room and we could save millions of £'s and beautiful Countryside .

That was a Party Political  Broadcast on behalf of Common Sense.

We were in the EEC (forerunner to the EU, and just as bad) long before Maggie!  We were taken in by Heath, backed by the Labour Leader, Harold Wilson!. At least Maggie fought to keep us at arms length from the worst excesses!

[johnphilip]

13 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

We were in the EEC (forerunner to the EU, and just as bad) long before Maggie!  We were taken in by Heath, backed by the Labour Leader, Harold Wilson!. At least Maggie fought to keep us at arms length from the worst excesses!

I never realy liked Maggie , but tell you what i wish we had her now . 😁

[neutron619]

19 hours ago, Deker said:

Everytime I hear him talk I just wonder how much more that workers will be taxed, there's no way he can implement his promises without taxing us more, companies who already play the tax avoidance game are just going to keep doing it and there's only the workers left to pick up the tab

Pointing to the two real problems hidden by that idea:

1. The tax system is over-complicated, giving people plenty of nooks and crannies in which to "hide" to avoid tax. You wouldn't get this if they said "10% on everything, for everyone" because there's no wiggle room for abuse. Of course, with 2700+ pages of UK tax law, this is entirely the point because the "favoured" companies can afford to find those nooks and crannies and everyone else gets clobbered.

2. There's a strong argument that says any form of company taxation is damaging. Company taxes (i.e. corporation tax) are a mix of (effectively)

• salary / pay rises that the workers won't receive
• dividends that the shareholders of a public company won't receive
• profit that the owner(s) of a private company won't receive
• investment that the company cannot make to expand its business, invest in new equipment or processes or hire more staff.

With all that in mind, it's very easy to see company taxes as just another form of income tax, paid "at a distance", by the workers. If you accept that government spending is less efficient (or less desirable) than private spending, then it's clear that money that could be spent for the benefit of society via the choices of the workers rather than the government is either outright wasted, or at best, mis-allocated by the corporate taxation system.

Furthermore, remembering a lot of people's dislike of "fat cats", remember that it's their willingness to risk their own money in pursuit of profit that pays for our salaries and benefits at work. Reducing their profit makes them less comfortable and therefore less likely to pay that much-needed pay rise, hire a new staff member or invest in the machine that makes their employee's jobs easier.

It is unsurprising that Corbyn is arguing that more money should be put in the pockets of the workers and equally unsurprising that he's arguing for precisely the wrong way of achieving that aim. The answer isn't to clobber companies with more taxes, confiscatory share rearrangements or any of that claptrap - it'll just drive them out of the country at which point nobody gets employed by anyone and we all die of penury / starvation.

In fact, it's to go the other way and reduce or remove business taxes, freeing up the money otherwise taken in tax for more investment, jobs and economic gain.

Of course, to make that happen, things like an increase in housing supply, people taking personal and financial responsibility for their health / healthcare and proper energy security will need to be achieved - so I'm not saying it's easy.

The real thing to take from his speech was the nationalize this, nationalize that stuff. We might all think that BR was basically OK, to take one example, but remember two things:

1. The law represents the implicit threat of violence by the state against the individual.

2. A nationalized industry is only nationalized because it cannot be operated in a particular way without "the law" to enforce its continued existence. Human ingenuity has shown an ability to create profit from almost anything, which highlights the implicit admission that nationalized industries, being legally-protected from competition, never operate optimally.

In short, Corbyn is advocating using state violence to construct his ideal society whilst guaranteeing that public services etc. will never operate as well as they otherwise might.

[JohnfromUK]

8 minutes ago, neutron619 said:

Pointing to the two real problems hidden by that idea: ......... and all of the rest of the post!

Good post and sound sound sense here.  Didn't quote it all to save space, but all pretty sound stuff there.

[norfolk dumpling]

All this is getting scary. He may well get in: Tories are implementing Brexit which will hack off a huge chunk of voters; Snowflake generation will believe all his lies on jobs; re-nationalisation of utilities, rail network etc etc and his plans for mega-tax on 'greedy' companies/directors will almost certainly wreck UK finances as it did 40-50yrs ago will be swallowed hook line and sinker. Cameron, going for a EU exit vote, has effectively stuffed May. I'm wondering if I should sell my guns now - it will help me finance a move to another country!

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, norfolk dumpling said:

All this is getting scary. He may well get in: Tories are implementing Brexit which will hack off a huge chunk of voters; Snowflake generation will believe all his lies on jobs; re-nationalisation of utilities, rail network etc etc and his plans for mega-tax on 'greedy' companies/directors will almost certainly wreck UK finances as it did 40-50yrs ago will be swallowed hook line and sinker. Cameron, going for a EU exit vote, has effectively stuffed May. I'm wondering if I should sell my guns now - it will help me finance a move to another country!

If Corbyn gets in, it will be at least 50% the Tories fault for loosing the election.  They have been frankly useless.  May's manifesto at the last election was a complete disaster - she should have come back with a big majority, but ended up with a minority due to incompetence.   I don't know anyone (Tory supporters included) who think the present lot are any good, and Cameron/Osborne and crew were little better.  I see no credible replacements for May either.

[12gauge82]

13 hours ago, Westward said:

It's a cyclical thing, look up Denis Healey on Wikiquote. There's nothing new coming out of Corbyn etc., it's just that the there's a whole new generation around who've never had to watch the country being eviscerated by the bonkers lefties.

Ultimately and regardless of how they dress it up, it's all about taking away from the producers (i.e. greedy capitalists in loonyspeak) who've created wealth and giving to the non-producers (i.e. honest working folk in loonyspeak) who can't be bothered to improve their own situation.

What they always miss is that most of the better off in society are in that position because they're a lot smarter than the loony left who currently steer the Labour ship and will always find ways to defeat whatever extreme measures the Labour nutjobs try to implement. It's always the medium earners rather than the rich who end up getting shredded by Labour chancellors and since they're often floating voters, Labour's own failing policies always guarantee that the tories will return to power.

Don't mean to jump on your post, I agree with what you say regards the left, although I think there is huge merit in saying that the west's economy is just not working for average Joe, at least if they're under 40ish, the cost of living, property prices ect Vs the average wage and job insecurity these days is appalling and although it would apply to some, it certainly doesn't apply to all that people aren't prepared to work, there are some extremely hard workers whether they work in a supermarket a binman, or a rocket scientist, infact, often times wages have very little to do with how hard you actually need to work in a role. I feel very sorry for the young of today, it's not a good world we live in today and I'm glad I did my growing up when I did, there's no doubt in my mind, Corbyns view of the future is madness, but he's right that large corporations need tackling, they basically have the country and the western world by the balls.

[Gordon R]

It might sound daft and it does seem unlikely, but Theresa May could do a Lazurus and shock us all. She will be eventually be judged when the dust has settled and , whilst she has been a disappointment so far, she doesn't seem to be a quitter.

[Vince Green]

Just a point of order from a few posts back, it was Gordon Brown who signed the Lisbon Treaty in 2007 that gave the EU political union and effectively signed away Parliament's right to rule us from that day.

This was the treaty that Ireland famously refused to sign and were made to go away and vote again until they did. The legality of Gordon Brown's right to sign has always been questioned. Even at the time people were saying it wasn't legal, firstly because he was only a caretaker prime minister after Tony Blair resigned and secondly because he didn't put it before Parliament before he signed it.

He didn't sign it at the same time as all the other leaders, he sneaked in the back door (literally) and signed it after all the TV cameras had gone. Now I ask you all, is that dodgy or what?

There are people who will say, with some justification , that we don't need to leave the EU because we were never legally in it

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Vince Green

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Gordon R said:

whilst she has been a disappointment so far

That is an understatement;

I was prepared to give her my support, and at the time she became leader, people said good things about her.  However, she seems such a poor judge of character and surrounded herself with incompetents.  The two advisers (Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill) alienated everyone apparently as well as preparing the disastrous manifesto.  A string of ministers including 'top level ones' such as David Davis (Brexit sec), Michael Fallon (Defence sec), Boris Johnson (Foreign sec), Amber Rudd (Home sec), Damien Green (Sec of State) ...... and the whole list is much longer if you include the more junior ones.

10 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

she doesn't seem to be a quitter.

That is true, but I'm really not sure if that is an advantage or a disadvantage!  If in a hole, keeping digging isn't always the best thing.

3 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Now I ask you all, is that dodgy or what?s

The whole Blair/Brown administration was 'dodgy', with dodgy dossiers, some very odd goings on around the death of David Kelly etc.  With Alistair Campbell running the 'spin machine' nothing honest was every likely to come out (other than by accident!).

[12gauge82]

16 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Just a point of order from a few posts back, it was Gordon Brown who signed the Lisbon Treaty in 2007 that gave the EU political union and effectively signed away Parliament's right to rule us from that day.

This was the treaty that Ireland famously refused to sign and were made to go away and vote again until they did. The legality of Gordon Brown's right to sign has always been questioned. Even at the time people were saying it wasn't legal, firstly because he was only a caretaker prime minister after Tony Blair resigned and secondly because he didn't put it before Parliament before he signed it.

He didn't sign it at the same time as all the other leaders, he sneaked in the back door (literally) and signed it after all the TV cameras had gone. Now I ask you all, is that dodgy or what?

There are people who will say, with some justification , that we don't need to leave the EU because we were never legally in it

 

This is spot on. 

It also shows the remoaners to be exactly as their name suggests, the pro EU lot have acted every bit as bad as any leavers ever did and I would argue worse, yet you didn't see the feet stamping and the toys being thrown from the pram over the years from the pro leavers when they didn't get what they wanted. The remainiacs just can't accept democracy and are going to fight  their perception of fascism by being fascist's, it'd be laughable, if it were not so serious.

[TriBsa]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

It might sound daft and it does seem unlikely, but Theresa May could do a Lazurus and shock us all. She will be eventually be judged when the dust has settled and , whilst she has been a disappointment so far, she doesn't seem to be a quitter.

Even if Theresa May delivered on Brexit, consigning the so called Chequers deal into the bin, she still needs to go. Her record as Home Secretary was abysmal in terms of crime and imigration.She is no conservative. By inclination she is a liberal, a stooge of globilisation and political correctness. I beleive she is just as bad for this country as Corbyn would be, he would just destroy all we hold dear quicker. We are cursed with two main parties who both have an agenda that is at odds with the majority of the people. Both despise the electorate and shun the will of the people, and not just on Brexit. They survive purely on a strategy of demonising each other at elections. 

The Brexit referendum result was a seismic event in British politics. It has shown up our parliamentary sysytem for being the sham that it is. We don't elect in the main MP's that truly represent us, but merely pick from a list of vetted party central commitee nominees. This need to change. The populist genie that emerged from the referendum ballot needs to emerge from the next General Election ballot boxes and deliver the populist MP's that we are so sadly lacking. 

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, TriBsa said:

Even if Theresa May delivered on Brexit, consigning the so called Chequers deal into the bin, she still needs to go. Her record as Home Secretary was abysmal in terms of crime and imigration.She is no conservative. By inclination she is a liberal, a stooge of globilisation and political correctness. I beleive she is just as bad for this country as Corbyn would be, he would just destroy all we hold dear quicker. We are cursed with two main parties who both have an agenda that is at odds with the majority of the people. Both despise the electorate and shun the will of the people, and not just on Brexit. They survive purely on a strategy of demonising each other at elections. 

The Brexit referendum result was a seismic event in British politics. It has shown up our parliamentary sysytem for being the sham that it is. We don't elect in the main MP's that truly represent us, but merely pick from a list of vetted party central commitee nominees. This need to change. The populist genie that emerged from the referendum ballot needs to emerge from the next General Election ballot boxes and deliver the populist MP's that we are so sadly lacking. 

I think this smokes our countrys political system up very well.

[Westward]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Don't mean to jump on your post, I agree with what you say regards the left, although I think there is huge merit in saying that the west's economy is just not working for average Joe, at least if they're under 40ish, the cost of living, property prices ect Vs the average wage and job insecurity these days is appalling and although it would apply to some, it certainly doesn't apply to all that people aren't prepared to work, there are some extremely hard workers whether they work in a supermarket a binman, or a rocket scientist, infact, often times wages have very little to do with how hard you actually need to work in a role. I feel very sorry for the young of today, it's not a good world we live in today and I'm glad I did my growing up when I did, there's no doubt in my mind, Corbyns view of the future is madness, but he's right that large corporations need tackling, they basically have the country and the western world by the balls.

I get what you're saying here and with 3 grown sons I understand that it's difficult for those starting out. But then, when wasn't it difficult starting out as an adult?  What's changed is that instead of the home ownership struggle being mostly limited to the Southeast as it was in the 70s and 80s, it's now most of the country.

What I meant about the non-producers who can't be bothered to improve their own situation applies, sadly, to a great chunk of the population. It's not about how hard their work is or whether they even go to work, it's about the lack of ambition to better themselves and having no initiative or imagination to see that there can be something more in life than a numbing job for low pay that pervades them and their friends & workmates.

Of course it's probable that such self limiting behaviour may may well be inherited from ignorant, lazy or selfish parenting. About 10 years ago there was a BBC radio item about on-the-job training for young people and a caller rang in to say that her son had been offered a 6 month course to learn bricklaying, but she told him not to take it because he'd be £5 a week worse off during the course. With such an oafish mother imposing attitudes like that on her son and prejudicing his prospects, what chance is there for him?

Corbyn and his band of misfits offers the usual Labour nonsense of free stuff and money for this section of society without them having to make any effort to obtain it. Smoke and mirrors for the nation's dullards.

[JohnfromUK]

16 minutes ago, Westward said:

What I meant about the non-producers who can't be bothered to improve their own situation applies, sadly, to a great chunk of the population. It's not about how hard their work is or whether they even go to work, it's about the lack of ambition to better themselves and having no initiative or imagination to see that there can be something more in life than a numbing job for low pay that pervades them and their friends & workmates.

I think another issue is that the young think nothing of spending £1000 on the latest phone handset - and £50 a month on contract, netflix, spoytify etc., buy coffee regularly at the fancy expensive Costa/Starbucks etc coffee outlets, think little of spending £100 on a night out, couple of foreign holidays, gym membership etc.

When I was young we were careful with money, because we knew we had to save for houses, cars, etc.  I used to walk 2 miles rather than pay 6p bus fare if wasn't raining (bizarre but true!) because I was saving.

They don't have the same attitude to money at all.

[Westward]

33 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

When I was young we were careful with money, because we knew we had to save for houses, cars, etc.  I used to walk 2 miles rather than pay 6p bus fare if wasn't raining (bizarre but true!) because I was saving.

Indeed! And then it starts all over again so that the kids can go off to university and have a decent future.

[scobydog]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

I think another issue is that the young think nothing of spending £1000 on the latest phone handset - and £50 a month on contract, netflix, spoytify etc., buy coffee regularly at the fancy expensive Costa/Starbucks etc coffee outlets, think little of spending £100 on a night out, couple of foreign holidays, gym membership etc.

When I was young we were careful with money, because we knew we had to save for houses, cars, etc.  I used to walk 2 miles rather than pay 6p bus fare if wasn't raining (bizarre but true!) because I was saving.

They don't have the same attitude to money at all.

My wife has a student placement who thinks nothing of spending £300-400 a month on her nails, at least £200 on hair and quite a bit more on make up and as for clothes what she spends makes most peoples shooting allowance seem absolutely pitiful, when my wife asked her about how she manages to pay for it, she explained she was using her student loans and bank of mum and dad, apparently she then complained that she would never earn enough to buy her own house as they cost too much, when my wife explained she could have a mortgage for a small house for less than the cost of her nails being done monthly she said I don't want to live in the said  area I want to live in Wilmslow nearby. Good luck with that was my wife's reaction along with a big sigh.

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, Westward said:

I get what you're saying here and with 3 grown sons I understand that it's difficult for those starting out. But then, when wasn't it difficult starting out as an adult?  What's changed is that instead of the home ownership struggle being mostly limited to the Southeast as it was in the 70s and 80s, it's now most of the country.

What I meant about the non-producers who can't be bothered to improve their own situation applies, sadly, to a great chunk of the population. It's not about how hard their work is or whether they even go to work, it's about the lack of ambition to better themselves and having no initiative or imagination to see that there can be something more in life than a numbing job for low pay that pervades them and their friends & workmates.

Of course it's probable that such self limiting behaviour may may well be inherited from ignorant, lazy or selfish parenting. About 10 years ago there was a BBC radio item about on-the-job training for young people and a caller rang in to say that her son had been offered a 6 month course to learn bricklaying, but she told him not to take it because he'd be £5 a week worse off during the course. With such an oafish mother imposing attitudes like that on her son and prejudicing his prospects, what chance is there for him?

Corbyn and his band of misfits offers the usual Labour nonsense of free stuff and money for this section of society without them having to make any effort to obtain it. Smoke and mirrors for the nation's dullards.

Got to say I agree with most of what you say, also the snowflake generation don't help themselves at times, although I think it little wonder considering the world they've been bought up in, I still however believe large companies are taking the Mickey, they don't contribute a fair amount of tax, they don't help to train a future work force, while paying rock bottom prices for foreign labour and complaining that they can't get enough skilled workers, they also hold government to ransom, I'm no conspiracy loon, but, if someone wants to know what the Illuminati looks like, I don't think they need to look much further than that.