Salopian Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Any experience using fibres at long distance Pheasants? I am informed by an 'expert' that fibres are not effective at Pheasants at ranges over 70 yards. I cannot comment on this matter myself as I am very happy with the size of my testicles and have no wish to show off . Any comments gentlemen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Yep. What are you on? I want some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 70yds? The only way you would bring down a pheasant at 70yds is if it couldn't fly anymore for laughing or a 1000 to 1 chance lucky stray pellet to the right part of the head. Almost all driven pheasants are shot with fibre wadded cartridges, it would not be considered "the done thing" to turn up to a shoot with anything else. In fact at the top end shoots only paper cases are still the norm. Edited October 17, 2018 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 70 yards? Measure it out!.......I would not even think of lifting the gun at that range, even using large shot in the 8 Bore!!! Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 The clue was in the word `expert`. Definition being `Ex` as a `has been` and `spert` a `drip under pressure` Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Salopian said: Any experience using fibres at long distance Pheasants? I am informed by an 'expert' that fibres are not effective at Pheasants at ranges over 70 yards. I cannot comment on this matter myself as I am very happy with the size of my testicles and have no wish to show off . Any comments gentlemen? If he is using anything less than full choke with 4oz of no 3, then he is a 'fluffer' and a 'chancer' but certainly not an 'expert' at 70 yards, plastic or fibre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Old Boggy said: The clue was in the word `expert`. Definition being `Ex` as a `has been` and `spert` a `drip under pressure` Can you delete this before anyone else sees it as this could be quite good fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) Salopian, have you actually seen said expert take a bird at 70 yards? He is right of course, fibre wads are useless on birds at 70 yards, as are plastic wads, as are shotguns per se. There wouldn’t be anywhere near enough energy left in normal bird shot at that range to do any significant damage. Bear in mind also that even with full choke the pattern would be well over 2m wide at that range therefore unless some pellets clumped together and this clump hit the bird square on, the bird could quite happily fly through the pattern with little or no chance of being hit! Personally think said expert is either George Digweed or talking testicles...... Edited October 17, 2018 by The Burpster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Interesting replies , but sadly not constructive either in helping or confirming that fibre is viable . Such shoots as Brigands , Whitfield , Sweet Lamb , Lechwyddygart etc. often show birds at 70 yards plus and greedy B's do shoot at them. So I'll ask again , are fibres up to the job? Burpster , 36 gram , 40 gram and larger loads of 4's & 5's are shot through 3/4 & Full chokes . Pattern (central thickness) will be adequate but not too sure about kinetic energy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 27 minutes ago, Salopian said: Interesting replies , but sadly not constructive either in helping or confirming that fibre is viable . Such shoots as Brigands , Whitfield , Sweet Lamb , Lechwyddygart etc. often show birds at 70 yards plus and greedy B's do shoot at them. So I'll ask again , are fibres up to the job? Burpster , 36 gram , 40 gram and larger loads of 4's & 5's are shot through 3/4 & Full chokes . Pattern (central thickness) will be adequate but not too sure about kinetic energy . Yes, choked correctly with pretested ammo, a fibre load of appropriate shot size of say 5.5 or bigger with 36g+ shells should have sufficient density for two or more pellets to hit pheasant size quarry and they will have enough kinetic energy to penetrate at least half way through the body. Whether such shots should be taken routinely is an entirely different thing, sometimes those 2-3 pellets will hit vital areas such as the heart, neck or head but too often they will just lodge inside the bird which will carry on and the braveheart will just assume he'd missed altogether. It is entirely possible to fold pigeon dead in the air with 32g (or even less) of 7's and even 7.5's at 50 yards with a little choke (density is your friend). The kinetic energy of a size 4 pellet at 70 yards is double that of a 7 at 50 yards so it isn't the energy that's the limiting factor but density. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 46 minutes ago, Salopian said: Interesting replies , but sadly not constructive either in helping or confirming that fibre is viable . Such shoots as Brigands , Whitfield , Sweet Lamb , Lechwyddygart etc. often show birds at 70 yards plus and greedy B's do shoot at them. So I'll ask again , are fibres up to the job? Burpster , 36 gram , 40 gram and larger loads of 4's & 5's are shot through 3/4 & Full chokes . Pattern (central thickness) will be adequate but not too sure about kinetic energy . Really didn't think that you were serious. It's not so much the chicken and the egg as the hen and the cock. At 70 yards assuming a 1450 MV 4s will just about have marginal energy for a young hen but just about not for an old cock. If you stick with that marginal size - anything smaller won't cut the mustard - then assuming somehow that you've managed to get a choke which still throws what is a recognised TC pattern at 40 yards - not so easy as a Full is down to the 40% at 55 yards, then the reverse to the above applies - the cock being marginal and the hen less so. It's a great pity that the "riot act" in the form of Gough Thomas' definition of maximum range is not an obligatory requirement to be read on shoots where such targets are presented as this would give the true sportsmen an opportunity to pack up and go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsDad Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Salopian said: but not too sure about kinetic energy . Interestingly the Eley Shooters Diary does not list the striking energy for pellets beyond 50 yrds, where No: 4s retain 2.11 ftlbs and No: 5s 1.46 ftlbs. If you accept the the generally agreed figure of a minimum 3 pellet strike on a Pheasant of 0.85 ftlbs it would appear that 5s are barely up to the job at 70 yrds but 4s will retain enough energy. From this little diary the percentage pattern at 60yrds from full choke is circa 32%, so your assumption that central thickness will be adequate would appear to be open to question. I dont know if anyone can answer your question accurately without having patterned their gun at a measured 70 yrds with a selection of fibre & plastic wad cartridges. I have loaded for people on a number of shoots over the years and shot on the odd shoot that shows high birds. My personal observation is that once the bird is much beyond 50 to 55 yrds with only blue sky as the background it is very difficult to judge the height accurately. I would accept that with a tightly choked gun using a large charge of 4s it is possible to kill a Pheasant at 70 yrds, however I would suggest that the kill rate per cartridge is very low and many birds are hit with the odd pellet and drop a leg or glide on to perhaps be picked way behind the line. Where a bird is killed at 70 yrds (and beyond in your words) such shots are in my view a lucky fluke rather than something that can be repeated consistently, and should be deplored rather than applauded. While the George Digweed`s of this world can certainly kill some long range birds with some consistency, I for one will stick with the old accepted norm of around 45 yrds being my self imposed limit. Edited October 17, 2018 by JJsDad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 i can pop out 3" 42g subsonics and transonic fibre loads in a 12gauge, 42g #1 will aquire targets at "quite some distance" maybe even the distances that have been mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 thats not game shooting ...its a willy waving day out....... people who feel the need to cough up for 70 yard plus pheasants have lost the plot as far as im concerned.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, The Burpster said: Salopian, have you actually seen said expert take a bird at 70 yards? He is right of course, fibre wads are useless on birds at 70 yards, as are plastic wads, as are shotguns per se. There wouldn’t be anywhere near enough energy left in normal bird shot at that range to do any significant damage. Bear in mind also that even with full choke the pattern would be well over 2m wide at that range therefore unless some pellets clumped together and this clump hit the bird square on, the bird could quite happily fly through the pattern with little or no chance of being hit! Personally think said expert is either George Digweed or talking testicles...... What has George Digweed got to do with it? His pellets will hit no harder than anyone elses. By the way, I do believe there is sufficient energy in 'bird shot' at that range to kill a pheasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Just head shoot them, job jobbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, figgy said: Just head shoot them, job jobbed. Many guns can't hit them anywhere (except up the ****) at 35yds.........let alone hit em in the head at 70! Many guns don't know what 45 yds looks like! Let alone 70!.... and no, I don't believe any 12 bore game cartridge, irrespective of wad type is viable at 70yds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 My earlier answer was what you need to reliably take down pheasants at 70 yards, anything less in lead (not involving tungsten) is relying on a mixture of skill (putting pattern on target) and pure luck as to the chance any pellets will be there or not in the 'pattern', hence several well known 'high' guns only having a 5 to 10 to 1 kill ratio. At 70 yards no 4 has approx 1.05 and would struggle, no 3 having 1.4ftlbs. At full choke at 70 yards you would have a 20% pattern, meaning to get circa 120 pellets in 30inch you would need to start off with 600 pellets or roughly 4 1/4 oz. Any body got a 4 bore handy to test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, cookoff013 said: i can pop out 3" 42g subsonics and transonic fibre loads in a 12gauge, 42g #1 will aquire targets at "quite some distance" maybe even the distances that have been mentioned. i could, but i dont. no point. really. there were a fer projects i did, 3" fibre subsonic with big shot. the point i had, was, it can be done. even with a 2.75" rto too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, Stonepark said: My earlier answer was what you need to reliably take down pheasants at 70 yards, anything less in lead (not involving tungsten) is relying on a mixture of skill (putting pattern on target) and pure luck as to the chance any pellets will be there or not in the 'pattern', hence several well known 'high' guns only having a 5 to 10 to 1 kill ratio. At 70 yards no 4 has approx 1.05 and would struggle, no 3 having 1.4ftlbs. At full choke at 70 yards you would have a 20% pattern, meaning to get circa 120 pellets in 30inch you would need to start off with 600 pellets or roughly 4 1/4 oz. Any body got a 4 bore handy to test? I wouldn't trust those figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomaddy525 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) Taking the argument of being able to hit them at such ranges out of the question, I believe pheasants can be killed reasonably consistently at these kind of ranges IF the correct kit is used. On many of the large high-bird shoots around me 40-50g loads of #3 are common, however many opt for a no.4. A few years back (pre lead ban) a great deal of wildfowlers swore by no.3 for foreshore geese - so why wouldn't it be able to deal with a pheasant? Heavy guns, full chokes and loads such as those I have mentioned make the job doable. I'm not saying this is my cup of tea at all, and would much rather shoot 'nice height' pheasants (40-50 yards) with a moderate load, but each to their own. We shouldn't knock those who are skilled enough to do it, it is those who don't have the skills but do it anyway (wounding birds in the process) we should discourage. Back to the matter in hand... fibre wadded cartridges are renowned for not patterning as tightly as plas wads, but the striking energy of like for like pellets will be the same. It is only the difference in patterns that will make fibres less effective at range. Edited October 17, 2018 by tomaddy525 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burpster Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) Having just run a quick calculation using generic weights for #4 shot and standard velocity tests for a 4shot cartridge giving 1475 FPS muzzle energy. A single #4 shot at 70 yds will 0.61ft/lbs of energy left. I’ll leave that there. Edited October 17, 2018 by The Burpster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, The Burpster said: Having just run a quick calculation using generic weights for #4 shot and standard velocity tests for a 4shot cartridge giving 1475 FPS muzzle energy. A single #4 shot at 70 yds will 0.61ft/lbs of energy left. I’ll leave that there. Even with 1450 I make it twice that. The previously mntioned 0.85 ftlbs relates to pigeon/partridge sized birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salopian Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Thank you for your replies so far , interesting isn't it? I would be very interested in seeing your calculations Burpster? In fact I am very interested in any scientific works or answers to this subject . I will eventually (soon) be doing some pattern tests at this range . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss4111 Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 If it helps we once shot at a balloon which was 80 yards away with 28grams of 6 shot and they marked the balloon but didn't pop it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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