Effectiveness of fibre wadded cartridges at distance

[motty]

1 hour ago, Perazzishot said:

As a matter of interest for all these cartridge officiado's have any of you making comments regarding capabilities pattern tested some of the popular cartridges in use on these type of days, to give you the basis of your thoughts? Lots of manufacturers have done serious work to build cartridges for this type of shooting over the last few years.

I'm just wondering how you can all be so sure in your judgements so looking for the factual proof you have on what you are basing your judgements on.

 

 

 

I don't think any manufacturer has tried to produce cartridges for 90 yard pheasants. If they did, I would expect to see some sort of long range claims on the packaging. The reason they don't is because they can't.

[Smokersmith]

I need to do some patterning this weekend for other stuff ... so ...

I’ll put a Black Gold 36g 4 onto a pallet liner sheet at 90 yards with Full choke and post the result.

The only time I was fortunate enough to shoot Grai’s mountain I had 2 boxes of 40g 4’s and had well over 20 down .... but the benefit was I was on the left hand peg so had some birds within 70 yards to have a go at.

If I’d have had a middle peg, I doubt I’d have shot 1 box.

I’m unashamedly envious of your calendar, but really urge you to understand the relationship between your capabilities and that of your equipment at the ranges used.

[Perazzishot]

14 minutes ago, motty said:

I don't think any manufacturer has tried to produce cartridges for 90 yard pheasants. If they did, I would expect to see some sort of long range claims on the packaging. The reason they don't is because they can't.

No Gamebore just give Dave Carrie loads of free cartridges then he makes lots of videos showing him doing it with their cartridges.

Like Eley have also just done with their new cartridges too. Video's shooting clays at 90 yards.

Also for Hamster clays at major FITASC events are now being set on a regular basis at 75-90 yards. Getting killed using 28/6s on a regular basis.

[figgy]

Perazzishot   Dave Carrie patterns at 60  or 70 yards with paper and dvd discs adding thirty or so yards to that will give a different result. Yes I have watched videos of him shooting at range but on camera you can’t tell if it’s fifty or one hundred yards. 

I look forward to seeing some patterns at 90 yards

[Ultrastu]

I thought he patterns in his farm  yard at 55 yds. ? 

And manages to get 3 pellet strikes on a 5 inch cd disc .

Which lets be honest is pushing it for effective kills at that range let alone 90 🤣

 

[wymberley]

12 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

I thought he patterns in his farm  yard at 55 yds. ? 

And manages to get 3 pellet strikes on a 5 inch cd disc .

Which lets be honest is pushing it for effective kills at that range let alone 90 🤣

 

To be fair, if the 3 strikes is on average, then as the DVD is half the vulnerable size of a cock pheasant, the 55 yards is good to go.

[Diss4111]

19 hours ago, motty said:

Anyone who says that consistently killing pheasants at 90 yards is possible, without extremely heavy loads or specialist cartridges, they are living in a fantasy world.

This is the truest statement I've read on this thread. And anyone lifting a gun to anything with a heartbeat at that range needs to take up another sport.

[Perazzishot]

Ok some of the preferred cartridges 

Proper 36/4, 40/3, 42,3

Hull High Pheasant Extreme 36/4 34/4

Gamebore Black Gold 36/4 40/4 42/3

RC RC40 Camoflage 42/4 JK6 36/4 HPF 36/4 and RC4 36/4

A few Fiocchis too

usually in back bored 32” or 34” barrels using 5/8, 3/4 or sometimes full

 

[Perazzishot]

Eley's new promotion video of 90 yard clays being smashed up to 122 yards!

https://www.eleyhawkltd.com/media-events/press-releases/eley-hawk-release-new-titanium-strike-videos

Some need to face up to the fact technology has moved on the limitations come from people's perception of what they can kill, the equipment is there and put to use in the right hands it works! 

But at either 75 or 35 reading what that target (live or clay) is doing determines where and how you shoot!

[motty]

1 hour ago, Perazzishot said:

Ok some of the preferred cartridges 

Proper 36/4, 40/3, 42,3

Hull High Pheasant Extreme 36/4 34/4

Gamebore Black Gold 36/4 40/4 42/3

RC RC40 Camoflage 42/4 JK6 36/4 HPF 36/4 and RC4 36/4

A few Fiocchis too

usually in back bored 32” or 34” barrels using 5/8, 3/4 or sometimes full

 

What does barrel length have to do with anything?

5/8 choke at those ranges?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

5 minutes ago, motty said:

What does barrel length have to do with anything?

5/8 choke at those ranges?

It would mean you were 2 or 4 inches closer to the very distant target!

[Diss4111]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

It would mean you were 2 or 4 inches closer to the very distant target!

😂😂

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, Perazzishot said:

Ok some of the preferred cartridges 

Proper 36/4, 40/3, 42,3

Hull High Pheasant Extreme 36/4 34/4

Gamebore Black Gold 36/4 40/4 42/3

RC RC40 Camoflage 42/4 JK6 36/4 HPF 36/4 and RC4 36/4

A few Fiocchis too

usually in back bored 32” or 34” barrels using 5/8, 3/4 or sometimes full

 

If you're using back-bored barrels, I'm wondering if the first cartridges listed are fibre wadded.

[Perazzishot]

wymberley the propers are available in Fibre and plastic in those loads. So I carry both at all times. (Llechwydygarth has had to go to fibre on a couple of drives due to SSSI's makes things a little trickier)

It was to keep things relative to the equipment being used.

As for chokes with big loads you risk blowing your pattern trying to shove them through tight chokes some of you are starting to show your ignorance on the matter nowadays.

As was said personally to me during this thread by a few folk, it will get personal with a few named "experts" trying to ridicule at every opportunity who will ignore facts in the face of not being to handle actually being wrong. That is pigeon watch for you. 

Another well written article here which once again some will choose to ridicule as previously.

I noticed how the Eley test video has not been ridiculed as yet by those saying 90 yards was not achievable when we now have a major cartridge manufacturer proving it is and promoting as and advertising feature.

https://www.fieldsportsmagazine.com/Shooting-Instruction/choosing-the-right-gun.html

Edited November 1, 2018 by Perazzishot

[motty]

4 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

wymberley the propers are available in Fibre and plastic in those loads. So I carry both at all times. (Llechwydygarth has had to go to fibre on a couple of drives due to SSSI's makes things a little trickier)

It was to keep things relative to the equipment being used.

As for chokes with big loads you risk blowing your pattern trying to shove them through tight chokes some of you are starting to show your ignorance on the matter nowadays.

As was said personally to me during this thread by a few folk, it will get personal with a few named "experts" trying to ridicule at every opportunity who will ignore facts in the face of not being to handle actually being wrong. That is pigeon watch for you. 

Another well written article here which once again some will choose to ridicule as previously.

I noticed how the Eley test video has not been ridiculed as yet by those saying 90 yards was not achievable when we now have a major cartridge manufacturer proving it is and promoting as and advertising feature.

https://www.fieldsportsmagazine.com/Shooting-Instruction/choosing-the-right-gun.html

You haven't given facts, just opinion. The Eley videos are pure marketing. There was no proof of ranges. There was no dusting of clays at long range - flash clays were used!

[Perazzishot]

With false marketing and advertising being illegal! 

[AYA117]

15 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

https://www.fieldsportsmagazine.com/Shooting-Instruction/choosing-the-right-gun.html

Interesting article, The barrels are the wrong way around, but apart from that very interesting. 

[motty]

21 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

wymberley the propers are available in Fibre and plastic in those loads. So I carry both at all times. (Llechwydygarth has had to go to fibre on a couple of drives due to SSSI's makes things a little trickier)

It was to keep things relative to the equipment being used.

As for chokes with big loads you risk blowing your pattern trying to shove them through tight chokes some of you are starting to show your ignorance on the matter nowadays.

As was said personally to me during this thread by a few folk, it will get personal with a few named "experts" trying to ridicule at every opportunity who will ignore facts in the face of not being to handle actually being wrong. That is pigeon watch for you. 

Another well written article here which once again some will choose to ridicule as previously.

I noticed how the Eley test video has not been ridiculed as yet by those saying 90 yards was not achievable when we now have a major cartridge manufacturer proving it is and promoting as and advertising feature.

https://www.fieldsportsmagazine.com/Shooting-Instruction/choosing-the-right-gun.html

Just read the article. Nothing too ground-breaking or unusual.

10 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

With false marketing and advertising being illegal! 

Where was the proof of range? There obviously wasn't any. The breaks were barely visible. Did they show the misses? Pure marketing!

Nickel plated shot? Nowt new there.

[Perazzishot]

The video is here endorsed by Eley.

Watch it on big screen and you can see the clay being broken not just chipped. (multiple pellet strike!)

 

 

[AYA117]

RC also make the RedShot in Nickle, so Eley are not the only maker.

[Hamster]

54 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

 

As for chokes with big loads you risk blowing your pattern trying to shove them through tight chokes some of you are starting to show your ignorance on the matter nowadays.

https://www.fieldsportsmagazine.com/Shooting-Instruction/choosing-the-right-gun.html

That made me larf 😀  coming from someone copy pasting fifty year old myths that have long since been busted.

There is no reason why any shot of around 6.5 size or larger shouldn't break a 100 yard face on clay, coated or not, those on the video are flash clays which always make it look like they've been smoked. 

[sitsinhedges]

Nickel plating on lead would be like the icing on the sponge cake I had for tea and wouldn't stop it deforming anymore than any other lead shot IMO.

[Stonepark]

On 30/10/2018 at 23:55, Perazzishot said:

Just picked up on this.

I only shoot extreme pheasants now. Which is defined as over 50 yards.

I can generally shoot between 5:1 and 9:1 depending on wind. Have shot killed cleanly pheasants leaving 90 yard (measured) banks using 42/4s. Usual load is 36/4s and I shoot with teams that all can consistently kill birds at this height. It is harder with fibre and a few manufacturers have added a plastic gas tight seal to help us out. Until you have been to an extreme pheasant shoot you will struggle to understand! Dave Carrie has a video coming out on Saturday of Llechwydygarth where I shot last week where many of these birds were above 100 yds. Other videos would include Whitfield, Mulgrave, Brigands, Molland, Warter Priory, Drumlanrig, Hawnby where you can see these birds being killed cleanly.

You can also check George Digweed smashing a clay at 135 yards on you tube.

Have also witnessed a top clay shot smashing (not chipping) a clay 3 shots for 3 at a measured 95 metres as a rising teal climbing 30 yards and dropping next to the trap, he shot it up, top and on the drop!

 

 

If you used a 4 bore with 4oz of No 3, you would restore your 1-2:1 cartridge to kill ratio and still be sporting, rather than relying on chance to have a pellet (which is effectively contained within a random pattern) impacting on the pheasant every 5 - 10 shots with 1ftlb of energy, perhaps breaking a wing and the resulting ground impact kill.

Clays only need 0.25ftlbs of energy to break spectacularly due to the inherent centrifugal force and are not representative of real targets, putting  a pattern over the target takes skill but in these videos, they somehow fail to show all the missed shots where they fail to hit the target as the clay slipped through the pattern.

 

[panoma1]

The guy had Eley all over his gear and his gun, the vid was advertising Eley products, no chance of bias (or professional editing!!) there then! Smoking a normal clay at 100 plus yards? Nah! Consistently? Nah!..........I remain unconvinced!

Eley "Titanium"......what part of the cartridge does that refer to?....is it just the colour of the plating on the cartridge head? If so I think it's arguably misleading, the prominence of the word Titanium, implies more!.........another marketing ploy?

[wymberley]

At the moment, I'm having enough trouble simply trying to do my own thing. In a sense, I've opted out and have no idea whether or not the relatively few PW members currently posting are representative of shooting as a whole - both clays and live quarry - particularly game. I can't help but wonder exactly what was the reason behind the OP starting this thread. For the reason just given, I have very little evidence - nothing more than I've read on here really - on which to base an opinion. However, should it transpire that the PW posters are accurately reflecting what is happening in our sport, then it is possible to give an opinion even though it may not be valid.  Unfortunately, I'm dashed if I can manage to type much more just now, but my thoughts are somewhat negative and can be sewn up in just one word - and if I'm right then it's not good for the long term future of our sport as we know it. The word is polarisation.