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ditchman

USA Shutdown

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    just a question.................all these US employee's that are not being paid...............

    when it is sorted out and the budget approved ...do the employees get their pay backdated to when the shutdown started ?...........

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    6 minutes ago, Lord v said:

    Yes. 

    But surprisingly they had to pass a bill to do so. 

    America is weird. 

    does the USA gov't authorise interest free loans to cover the pay shortfall..........?

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    How can one man hold one of the worlds greatest nations to ransome like Trump is doing over the "wall" 

     I thought when he first got elected that he would not last a year, i thought someone was sure to pop him off, but he is still here, will he survive another year? 

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    He is trying to do what he was elected to do but like here the left wing and political establishment is using every trick in the book to block him. Like him or loath him he IS attempting to do what he promised.

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    and since Trump became President, the economy in the USA has picked up!  As for the wall, what else do you do when a million unwanted migrants are heading your way? Answers on a postcard, please!

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    48 minutes ago, peck said:

    How can one man hold one of the worlds greatest nations to ransome like Trump is doing over the "wall" 

     I thought when he first got elected that he would not last a year, i thought someone was sure to pop him off, but he is still here, will he survive another year? 

    Are you for real? 

    Love him or hate him this was basically one of his main campaign promises. He campaigned on the wall from near the start. 

    Whilst not all Americans like him, many I’ve spoken to love him, and the reason they always state it - he does what he says he is going to do. 

    Theres absolutely no way he can not build the wall. He needs to see it through otherwise he’s just a liar like all the ones who came before him. 

     

    It is the other side that is holding him to ransom trying to deny the funding needed. 

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    39 minutes ago, Okrang said:

    Did he not also declare that he would get the Mexicans to pay for the wall?

    Yes, he did. However, he,s tried that openly, got nowhere, so next step, trade tarrifs until its paid for!

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    Quote

    do the employees get their pay backdated to when the shutdown started ?...........

    Quote

     

    Yes. 

    But surprisingly they had to pass a bill to do so. 

    America is weird. 

     

    It begs the question why stop it in the first place then...

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    all this Mexico wall debarcle is a load of tosh..........successive presidents since 1990 have already authorised and built several hundred miles of 

     

    1. wall
    2. fence
    3. barrier

    all Trump is doing is IN A SMALL WAY...continuing the work to plug a few gaps...........the politicle system is desperate to get trump out and they will try any damn thing in colusion with the media...........to do it

     

    okay so trump does hack me off.....................but what really hacks me off is is command of the english language...it is purile and childish....ive worked and lived with hill billies in central florida and their command of the english language is far better than his...........

    Edited by ditchman

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    4 hours ago, pinfireman said:

    Yes, he did. However, he,s tried that openly, got nowhere, so next step, trade tarrifs until its paid for!

    So basically Mexico pays for the wall then 🤷‍♂️ He reckons if they keep the tariffs it’ll pay for the wall numerous times over as well. 

    53 minutes ago, ditchman said:

    all this Mexico wall debarcle is a load of tosh..........successive presidents since 1990 have already authorised and built several hundred miles of 

     

    1. wall
    2. fence
    3. barrier

    all Trump is doing is IN A SMALL WAY...continuing the work to plug a few gaps...........the politicle system is desperate to get trump out and they will try any damn thing in colusion with the media...........

    Just like other presidents also detained illegals trying to cross the border with their kids etc, except Trump was the only one painted as the devil for doing it! 

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    1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

    So basically Mexico pays for the wall then 🤷‍♂️ He reckons if they keep the tariffs it’ll pay for the wall numerous times over as well. 

    Just like other presidents also detained illegals trying to cross the border with their kids etc, except Trump was the only one painted as the devil for doing it! 

    CORRECT!

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    People forget obama had a shutdown in2013 over Obamacare......the wall is needed.....any country has a right to have a border .maybe a bit of a buffoon but I think trump is brilliant....pile of folk said he would start a nuclear war....no sign of it yet......auld trump is making American jobs for American people just like he said he would......

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    39 minutes ago, tweedledee said:

    People forget obama had a shutdown in2013 over Obamacare......the wall is needed.....any country has a right to have a border .maybe a bit of a buffoon but I think trump is brilliant....pile of folk said he would start a nuclear war....no sign of it yet......auld trump is making American jobs for American people just like he said he would......

    :good: But some people won't let a little thing like the truth get in the way of a good agenda based story.

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    Trump promised that Mexico would pay for the wall, they have said no they wont (no surprise) and they are not going to pay for it.

    The talk of trade tariff's paying for the wall is completely bogus.  There are no additional trade tariffs imposed over the old trade deal, on top of that the new trade deal has not yet been approved by congress either and within that new trade deal there is no mention of any payment for the wall. So there is no more money in the new deal coming to the US than there was in the old one, ergo Mexico is not paying for the wall.

    Also worth referencing that the amount of illegal immigrants coming into the US over the Mexican border has actually reduced since it's peak in 2007. As for the wall stopping the transit of illegal drugs, the vast majority of drugs entering the US across the southern border is through the official border entry ports, no real surprise in that as that is where all the  transport infrastructure is.  Nobody is carrying 1 ton bales of cannabis or cocaine across remote sections of the Texas dessert because there is no transport infrastructure to do so.  Trump would be better off investing in more border agents and improved facilities to inspect every car, van, bus and lorry crossing at these points instead of building "a wall or steel barrier" as it has now been watered down to.

    As for the claimed upturn in the US economy since Trump came to power, this is partly true, but only in a limited context.  Trump reduced the burden of taxation on individual and business so there was a commensurate increase in domestic spend that inflated the economy, on top of that there was a significant increase in capital spend by industry on commercial property and plant and there was also an increase in domestic property purchases too. Trump also reduced regulation that has benefitted a lot of small producers in that it allowed them to reduce overheads, so this has seen an improvement in small scale blue collar production, which is approximately 14% of the US economy.

    So as for the above all good and shows the benefit of following traditional conservative policy of low tax and low regulation, however the capital spend bump improvement is not structural and sustainable, it is a spike.  A great short term headline, but that's all.  He has also benefitted from an uptick in the global prices of oil and gas, nothing at all to do with his policy choices, just good timing.

    As for the rest of the improvement in the US, well that has been on the cards since 2010 so the deck was stacked well before Trump took office.  There is pretty much a consistent level of economic growth in the US since 2010 when looking at the broader macro measures of US performance such as the value of non agricultural payroll (industry and commerce growth), civilian employment rate, average wage, etc, that rate of growth has continued unchanged since Trump took office.

    There is, however, a very real concern about what Trump's tariff war will mean for the long term impact on the US economy, the country also has a staggering level of public debt and the structural deficit has increased in real terms since Trump took office. Very big questions around just how sustainable US growth can be, especially against the backdrop of the increasing US isolation in the world.

     

    Edited by grrclark

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    13 hours ago, grrclark said:

    Trump promised that Mexico would pay for the wall, they have said no they wont (no surprise) and they are not going to pay for it.

    The talk of trade tariff's paying for the wall is completely bogus.  There are no additional trade tariffs imposed over the old trade deal, on top of that the new trade deal has not yet been approved by congress either and within that new trade deal there is no mention of any payment for the wall. So there is no more money in the new deal coming to the US than there was in the old one, ergo Mexico is not paying for the wall.

    Also worth referencing that the amount of illegal immigrants coming into the US over the Mexican border has actually reduced since it's peak in 2007. As for the wall stopping the transit of illegal drugs, the vast majority of drugs entering the US across the southern border is through the official border entry ports, no real surprise in that as that is where all the  transport infrastructure is.  Nobody is carrying 1 ton bales of cannabis or cocaine across remote sections of the Texas dessert because there is no transport infrastructure to do so.  Trump would be better off investing in more border agents and improved facilities to inspect every car, van, bus and lorry crossing at these points instead of building "a wall or steel barrier" as it has now been watered down to.

    As for the claimed upturn in the US economy since Trump came to power, this is partly true, but only in a limited context.  Trump reduced the burden of taxation on individual and business so there was a commensurate increase in domestic spend that inflated the economy, on top of that there was a significant increase in capital spend by industry on commercial property and plant and there was also an increase in domestic property purchases too. Trump also reduced regulation that has benefitted a lot of small producers in that it allowed them to reduce overheads, so this has seen an improvement in small scale blue collar production, which is approximately 14% of the US economy.

    So as for the above all good and shows the benefit of following traditional conservative policy of low tax and low regulation, however the capital spend bump improvement is not structural and sustainable, it is a spike.  A great short term headline, but that's all.  He has also benefitted from an uptick in the global prices of oil and gas, nothing at all to do with his policy choices, just good timing.

    As for the rest of the improvement in the US, well that has been on the cards since 2010 so the deck was stacked well before Trump took office.  There is pretty much a consistent level of economic growth in the US since 2010 when looking at the broader macro measures of US performance such as the value of non agricultural payroll (industry and commerce growth), civilian employment rate, average wage, etc, that rate of growth has continued unchanged since Trump took office.

    There is, however, a very real concern about what Trump's tariff war will mean for the long term impact on the US economy, the country also has a staggering level of public debt and the structural deficit has increased in real terms since Trump took office. Very big questions around just how sustainable US growth can be, especially against the backdrop of the increasing US isolation in the world.

     

    Is that a long winded way of saying 'your against the wall'?🙄

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    On 12/01/2019 at 17:08, Yellow Bear said:

    He is trying to do what he was elected to do but like here the left wing and political establishment is using every trick in the book to block him. Like him or loath him he IS attempting to do what he promised.

     

    On 12/01/2019 at 17:57, Lloyd90 said:

    ...It is the other side that is holding him to ransom trying to deny the funding needed. 

    Or they're doing exactly what they promised to do in their election campaigns: refusing to lend their support to the wall in any way. You can't praise the president for trying to fulfil a promise whilst chastise the Dems for doing exactly the same thing. They're both trying to keep their word to the electorate, so it's now a case of who can follow through on it

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    1 hour ago, chrisjpainter said:

     

    Or they're doing exactly what they promised to do in their election campaigns: refusing to lend their support to the wall in any way. You can't praise the president for trying to fulfil a promise whilst chastise the Dems for doing exactly the same thing. They're both trying to keep their word to the electorate, so it's now a case of who can follow through on it

    But was he not elected by the people and therefore carrying out their will as opposed to the Dems who are trying to carry out their own will??

     

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    35 minutes ago, silver pigeon69 said:

    But was he not elected by the people and therefore carrying out their will as opposed to the Dems who are trying to carry out their own will??

     

    Except this is a brand new HoR - elected by the people to carry out their will. It's also worth noting that there's been a big HoR swing away from Trump since he got into power. That has to give the Dems confidence in claiming they're speaking for the people.

    It's one of the fundamental difficulties of the American democratic system.  You have a Republican president, a Republican Senate - but a Democrat HoR and all of them are there because of individual elections.

    Also, The President only won an electoral college mandate (albeit a reasonable one). in pure numbers, almost 3 million more people voted for Hilary Clinton than Trump.

    Edited by chrisjpainter

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    18 hours ago, KB1 said:

    Is that a long winded way of saying 'your against the wall'?🙄

    No, just seeking to add some contribution to the thread.

    I genuinely don't care about the wall at all, I find that the 3000 miles of Atlantic Ocean is sufficient to separate me from what happens at the US southern border. 

    Edited by grrclark

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    Peck....it is the Democrats who are holding the USA to ransom not Trumpy.  He is doing what the people asked him to do and is supported by ALL the Border agents, Border Police and 99.99% of the folks who live anywhere near that border.  The Democrats don't care about all and sundry pouring into the country, all they want is POWER and their plan , like the immigrants being allowed into the EU is that they hope they will become Democrat voters.  I was in Texas back in 1985 and stayed at a shooting lodge close to the border, wet backs were a serious problem then and that week a security guard had been shot and killed near Laredo. My host made me carry a sidearm every time I went for a walk on the ranch....... note...that was in 1985 !!

    Things have seriously gone downhill since then.  The wall is essential and if you have not been along that border you have no idea of the problem.

    Edited by Walker570

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    OK, on a simplistic level, how does a wall stop people from climbing over it, digging under it or knocking a hole through it ? 

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    2 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

    Peck....it is the Democrats who are holding the USA to ransom not Trumpy.  He is doing what the people asked him to do and is supported by ALL the Border agents, Border Police and 99.99% of the folks who live anywhere near that border.  The Democrats don't care about all and sundry pouring into the country, all they want is POWER and their plan , like the immigrants being allowed into the EU is that they hope they will become Democrat voters.  I was in Texas back in 1985 and stayed at a shooting lodge close to the border, wet backs were a serious problem then and that week a security guard had been shot and killed near Laredo. My host made me carry a sidearm every time I went for a walk on the ranch....... note...that was in 1985 !!

    Things have seriously gone downhill since then.  The wall is essential and if you have not been along that border you have no idea of the problem.

    Any evidence to back up those claims at all?  "ALL border agents, border police and 99.99% of folks who live anywhere near the border"

    p.s. anecdotal evidence of a visit to the area 34 years ago doesn't count.

     

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    1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

    Peck....it is the Democrats who are holding the USA to ransom not Trumpy.  He is doing what the people asked him to do and is supported by ALL the Border agents, Border Police and 99.99% of the folks who live anywhere near that border.  The Democrats don't care about all and sundry pouring into the country, all they want is POWER and their plan , like the immigrants being allowed into the EU is that they hope they will become Democrat voters.  I was in Texas back in 1985 and stayed at a shooting lodge close to the border, wet backs were a serious problem then and that week a security guard had been shot and killed near Laredo. My host made me carry a sidearm every time I went for a walk on the ranch....... note...that was in 1985 !!

    Things have seriously gone downhill since then.  The wall is essential and if you have not been along that border you have no idea of the problem.

    Even if that were true, which it's not (see below), the USA is made up of many, many millions more than that! The Dems are just doing what they were elected to do. 

    https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article152402734.html

     

    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/outlook/article/Texans-to-Trump-Forget-about-the-wall-Rubin-13531193.php

    Rep. Will Hurd, R-Texas, the member of Congress with the largest stretch of border in his district, strongly opposes the wall. ("I think building a concrete structure sea to shining sea is the most expensive and least effective way to do border security,"

    https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/327609-poll-voters-oppose-trump-border-wall-funding

     

    Just because Trump said he'd do it, doesn't mean everyone should just let him. The House democrats promised that, if they were elected, they'd unite against building the wall. They were duly elected, so those voters have a right to expect them to keep to their promises

    Edited by chrisjpainter

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