motty Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 12 hours ago, Diss4111 said: Fibre, plastic should be banned outright this instant. We are killing this planet which is irreversible but we don't need to keep added to it I really think we should be careful what we wish for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted February 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 04/02/2019 at 22:46, Jason_ox said: If it was up to me not only would we all be using fibre, we would all be using paper cases as well! I don't think the older wild fowling fraternity would be to keen to go back to the days of swelled paper cases that you couldn't get into the chamber once they got damp in your pocket , unless of course they can come up with a water prof paper case to replace plastic . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabel25 Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 1 hour ago, marsh man said: I don't think the older wild fowling fraternity would be to keen to go back to the days of swelled paper cases that you couldn't get into the chamber once they got damp in your pocket , unless of course they can come up with a water prof paper case to replace plastic . Have to agree nothing wrong with plastic cases aslong as they are picked up and disposed of in a proper manner or recycled into reloading Paper casers have their use but are expensive? why i do not know as surely paper case carts should be cheaper to manufacture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 For me I use plastic at clay grounds that allow it and after that I use fibre for all of my shooting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted February 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 13 hours ago, islandgun said: maybe a daft reply but could the fibre loads be a tiny bit slower than your normal plastic, resulting in a bird shot further aft I don't think it's a daft reply islandgun , in fact it sound quite feasible . I have never been that interested in the ballistic side of the ins and out on how certain cartridges perform , they could well had been a fraction slower than the ones I was used to , but I would find it difficult to alter my style of shooting to allow for a few boxes of cartridges being a bit on the slow side . What started off as a simple question on the heading of this thread ,have now had some really interesting replies , many thanks to those who have voiced there opinion, it's all part of making this such a worthwhile forum . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 Hi I always try and use paper cases and fibre wads for my game shooting unless it’s going to be very wet then the obvious problems arise what have I noticed the difference between the same cartridge in paper case to that of plastic is noticeable in both recoil and killing the birds the paper comes out on top other noteable points keepers comments ( wish more people used them) where do you get them and other guns using them just my thoughts of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 05/02/2019 at 10:26, Walker570 said: .....and of course we ALL have an off day don't we ? I do advise checking the patterns though. It took me a while to discover that the #3 choke which i suppose is about 3/4 in my Yilditz o/u grouped best and then fine tuned it to the 18.7 load of shot/19.7 SP3. I know that load patterns about as good as it gets at 35yrds so when I have a day like I had recently where I went from my normal 2.5 to 3 to 1, to more like 5 to 6 to one then it is me and I discovered I was wearing a different coat because it was bitter cold, it was thicker and more restrictive, so next day changed back to my thinner fleece and back to normal. There are so many variables. hello walker, not to off track this cartridge posting topic how do you get on with your Yildiz, any problems ? i was contemplating one last shotgun purchase in 12 bore, it ticks all the boxes i want including steel shot and the right LOP and i can get one for £400 non ejector or £500 ejector , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, marsh man said: I don't think it's a daft reply islandgun , in fact it sound quite feasible . I have never been that interested in the ballistic side of the ins and out on how certain cartridges perform , they could well had been a fraction slower than the ones I was used to , but I would find it difficult to alter my style of shooting to allow for a few boxes of cartridges being a bit on the slow side . What started off as a simple question on the heading of this thread ,have now had some really interesting replies , many thanks to those who have voiced there opinion, it's all part of making this such a worthwhile forum . I believe that as is suggested above, this could also be a reason why occasional users do not rate steel cartridges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, marsh man said: I don't think it's a daft reply islandgun , in fact it sound quite feasible . I have never been that interested in the ballistic side of the ins and out on how certain cartridges perform , they could well had been a fraction slower than the ones I was used to , but I would find it difficult to alter my style of shooting to allow for a few boxes of cartridges being a bit on the slow side . What started off as a simple question on the heading of this thread ,have now had some really interesting replies , many thanks to those who have voiced there opinion, it's all part of making this such a worthwhile forum . Reading through, the above goes back to what J Dog said about birds not being killed cleanly. Another equally sensible possibility would be a more open pattern failing to give the required strike rate in order to produce a clean kill. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that this is the more likel scenario of the two. Fibre Edited February 8, 2019 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 I think the pattern is just a touch wider than with plastic but that said I notice no real difference in performance between fibre and plastic. At the ranges I shoot (sub 40 yards decoying mostly) I find 1/4 and 1/2 chokes just fine. If I was shooting over that on say high flighting birds (rare) or those that skirt the pattern but won't commit (more often than I'd like) then maybe I'd tighten up with fibre and not with plastic. That's when I have noticed a difference but only then. Under that range I couldn't tell you in a blind test which was what, nor can i tell between 7.5, 7, 6.5 or 6 as they all do the job if you hit the bird but that's a whole other topic....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 On 07/02/2019 at 22:37, motty said: I really think we should be careful what we wish for. Quite right, don't call for things to be banned, just gives ammo to the antis. Yes phase out plastic wads but then they are needed for most steel/tungsten etc. fowling loads. Going back to all paper cases is not practical and its easy enough to clear up your cases at the end of the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 On 08/02/2019 at 11:03, panoma1 said: I believe that as is suggested above, this could also be a reason why occasional users do not rate steel cartridges? Speeds are not usually too different for the user to notice any significant changes in the amount of lead required. 1400 fps vs 1250 fps is a few inches difference at 40 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabel25 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 Reading these posts with interest It appears that some only shoot what they are used too and will not diversify and so are engrossed in their plastic wad cartridges I will agree with many on here to the abolition of plastic wad on game shoots Yes guns pick up their empty plastic cases BUT i have never seen a shooter go round and pick up their plastic wads which is near hand impossible in rough ground and their is no time in the day to try Whereas a local clay ground to me has well manicured grounds where they have a machine to drive round and pick up most plastic wads What i would suggest to the plastic wad shooters that say they cannot get on with fibre Is get some fibre and practice with them and you will adapt your shooting to fibre cartridges As been said there is very little difference We had a get together in the summer as we do every year laid on by the estate owner for a clay shoot and barbie for all that beaters and pickers up on our local estate and this is set up as a proper game shoot ie a grouse drive a partridge drive and high pheasant I was using only game carts in fibre and was out shooting with the guys and girls using clay guns and carts with plastic cups Even my gamekeepr mate who stood behind me the whole time on each stand was asking what the hell i was using . Game gun with fibre game carts in fibre was my reply I recently purchased a thousand copper coated fibre carts from George at Proper cartridges and put them through their paces on our third day of our beaters day through fixed choke 1/4 & 1/2 Macnab and every bird i dropped was stone dead and some were at a helluv a distance and i was shooting with some that were using plastic wad To which i take the mick But these said pesrons are now rethinking their attitude on plastic wads Especialy when i pointed out that Propecartidges were cheaper than their cypriot plastic wad counterparts That was another point that came to alight with these Victory cartridges from Cyprus My two mates handed a few out to a few of us to try Four guns from five found the spent cartridges were split from end to end I handed out some propercartridges to these old boys to try in return a mate gave me a couple of these Victory starlite to try Yes i got two birds with his two cartridges but took my next 3 birds with my fibre carts in the same gun Hence what is the advantage of plastic wad??? Hence FIBRE all the time for me Shoot nothing else and have done in decades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabel25 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 On 07/02/2019 at 22:30, ditchman said: when using fibre i put a tighter choke in the a303... I use 1/4 & 1/2 choke all the time for game using fibre whether fixed of multi choke guns and works fine for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 there are several cartridges available now that are have biodegradeble plasi wads...i have picked these wads up after a year in the field and they crumble in your hands........now what they crumble into is something i would like to know !!.........and there is and has been a lot of R&D in the plastics industry experimenting with wheat starch as it makes a plastic type of material.............apparently the first thing they want to try to replace is cling film.............there is technology out there...but it needs laws and money to impliment it.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 30 minutes ago, ditchman said: there are several cartridges available now that are have biodegradeble plasi wads...i have picked these wads up after a year in the field and they crumble in your hands........now what they crumble into is something i would like to know !!.........and there is and has been a lot of R&D in the plastics industry experimenting with wheat starch as it makes a plastic type of material.............apparently the first thing they want to try to replace is cling film.............there is technology out there...but it needs laws and money to impliment it.......... Oooooh! Never rub that sort of stuff in your hands, you will either grow extra fingers or shake so much you cannot drink good red wine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 12 hours ago, motty said: Speeds are not usually too different for the user to notice any significant changes in the amount of lead required. 1400 fps vs 1250 fps is a few inches difference at 40 yards. Any difference in a projectiles speed from point A to point B will affect the point of impact on a moving target!.....a few inches could be the difference between hitting the target centrally or up the rear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 26 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Any difference in a projectiles speed from point A to point B will affect the point of impact on a moving target!.....a few inches could be the difference between hitting the target centrally or up the rear! I’m not sure how anyone could say with any authority that the reason they hit a target up the chuff rather than up front was down to the speed of the cartridge; I know I couldn’t. I have never looked at comparative speeds when selecting such. Personally I think each person just gets used to a certain cartridge and shoots accordingly; anyone who believes they have to consciously make allowances for speed with each cartridge they put in their gun from a mixed bag is surely on a hiding to nothing. I often use up left overs of various cartridges of differing brands and types when in a hide, and just shoot each bird accordingly. If I miss or hit one up the chuff, I just put it down to me. Maybe some can tell, I couldn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss4111 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 41 minutes ago, Scully said: I’m not sure how anyone could say with any authority that the reason they hit a target up the chuff rather than up front was down to the speed of the cartridge; I know I couldn’t. I have never looked at comparative speeds when selecting such. Personally I think each person just gets used to a certain cartridge and shoots accordingly; anyone who believes they have to consciously make allowances for speed with each cartridge they put in their gun from a mixed bag is surely on a hiding to nothing. I often use up left overs of various cartridges of differing brands and types when in a hide, and just shoot each bird accordingly. If I miss or hit one up the chuff, I just put it down to me. Maybe some can tell, I couldn’t. This is the truest statement I've read in a long time. Anyone who can say they hit a bird in the rear end because of a cartridge being slower is a plain liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Scully said: I’m not sure how anyone could say with any authority that the reason they hit a target up the chuff rather than up front was down to the speed of the cartridge; I know I couldn’t. I have never looked at comparative speeds when selecting such. Personally I think each person just gets used to a certain cartridge and shoots accordingly; anyone who believes they have to consciously make allowances for speed with each cartridge they put in their gun from a mixed bag is surely on a hiding to nothing. I often use up left overs of various cartridges of differing brands and types when in a hide, and just shoot each bird accordingly. If I miss or hit one up the chuff, I just put it down to me. Maybe some can tell, I couldn’t. Yes I agree consistently missing is down to the shooter, but accurate shooting is about making minor sub conscious adjustments to suit differing influences.......range of target, speed of shot load and speed of target are three such adjustments! You will not put a shot load travelling at 1150fps on a target moving at 40mph, at 40yds range, in the same place as you will a shotload travelling at 1450fps on a target travelling at 40mph at 40yds range by giving a target the same amount of lead!....Unless you make the minor adjustments to suit the different speed a shot load travels at.....same goes for differing speeds and differing ranges of the target 1 hour ago, Diss4111 said: This is the truest statement I've read in a long time. Anyone who can say they hit a bird in the rear end because of a cartridge being slower is a plain liar. Well that's a useful contribution to the debate! Edited February 11, 2019 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss4111 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Yes I agree consistently missing is down to the shooter, but accurate shooting is about making minor sub conscious adjustments to suit differing influences.......range of target, speed of shot load and speed of target are three such adjustments! You will not put a shot load travelling at 1150fps on a target moving at 40mph, at 40yds range, in the same place as you will a shotload travelling at 1450fps on a target travelling at 40mph at 40yds range by giving a target the same amount of lead!....Unless you make the minor adjustments to suit the different speed a shot load travels at.....same goes for differing speeds and differing ranges of the target Well that's a useful contribution to the debate! More useful that a lot of the drivel spouted on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Diss4111 said: More useful that a lot of the drivel spouted on here So perhaps you could enlighten us? What qualifies you to determine what is drivel and what is not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 The flight time for one is c0.15272 seconds and the other, c0.13815 which means that for the 1150 target you'll need an extra 10.25" of lead. Now, that's drivel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss4111 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 40 minutes ago, panoma1 said: So perhaps you could enlighten us? What qualifies you to determine what is drivel and what is not? i guess exactly the same qualifications as you have. over 35 years of shooting and honesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Diss4111 said: i guess exactly the same qualifications as you have. over 35 years of shooting and honesty. Not really, I do not post responses decrying anyones contribution as "drivel"....nor that anyone with whom I don't agree, is a liar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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