silver fox 1 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 15 minutes ago, Davetyler said: If we have gas guns out and scarers out and we shoot pigeons on that field it shows that you are trting to scare them. Exactly but I think the thing is at the moment what we don’t know is if the shooter is expected to do some scaring as well or would actions of the farmer be considered enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Next case for Wild Justice to crowdfund legal action to prevent.......cruelty via damage to the hearing of pigeon caused by the reckless use of a gas gun! 😇 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Users are advised to keep records of problems and what non-lethal methods have been tried. I have run around the field letting my gun off like an Apache Indian, I have put on bright colored clothing so they will see me and fly off, I have swept up all the spilt feed around the farm yard, I have hung my latest cd’s on string to frighten them, I have stuffed some old clothing and made a scarecrow and put it in the field (the crows just laughed at it) I have put string bangers on the fence and know I am about to see if I can shoot a few crows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, silver fox 1 said: Exactly but I think the thing is at the moment what we don’t know is if the shooter is expected to do some scaring as well or would actions of the farmer be considered enough If the extent and degree of scaring isn't specified it's open to interpretation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgy dave Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 1 minute ago, old'un said: Users are advised to keep records of problems and what non-lethal methods have been tried. I have run around the field letting my gun off like an Apache Indian, I have put on bright colored clothing so they will see me and fly off, I have swept up all the spilt feed around the farm yard, I have hung my latest cd’s on string to frighten them, I have stuffed some old clothing and made a scarecrow and put it in the field (the crows just laughed at it) I have put string bangers on the fence and know I am about to see if I can shoot a few crows. i hope they were chris greens cds there the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butchdickason Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Picture speaks louder than words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, dodgy dave said: i hope they were chris greens cds there the best I see that other anti Juniper is joining NE so don't hold your breath that NE will do anything sensible on edit....you should forward that picture to The Daily Telegraph...50/50 chance they would print it. They have been very supportive and slated Packham. Edited April 27, 2019 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, butchdickason said: Picture speaks louder than words. Exactly it makes you sit up and think doesn’t it , that’s the sort of thing that should be shown to some of The people that that don’t understand what goes on Imhp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgy dave Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 ho my gawd but from wat i heard basc had a chance to help ne but didnt want to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Yes apparently so I wonder what the reason was why they didn’t maybe they just thought they would leave things alone as everything was working (Let sleeping dogs Lay and all that) but it would seem it hasn’t done us any favours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 16 minutes ago, Walker570 said: I see that other anti Juniper is joining NE so don't hold your breath that NE will do anything sensible on edit....you should forward that picture to The Daily Telegraph...50/50 chance they would print it. They have been very supportive and slated Packham. If it's a painting its a dramatised artists impression, so has no factual impact, if it's a photo it could have been photoshopped.......either way I doubt they would print it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 You’re right of course but there must be some photographic evidence of stuff like this going on somewhere with all the mobile phones and cameras about nowadays that’s the sort of thing we need to prove our point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgy dave Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 yea but we have done that for too long it.. had too come out in the end ..what upsets me is we pay all this money and we get nothing for it they just havent a clue where are they come on basc your turn to answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Quote I don't understand the scaring "thing". All that is doing is pushing the problem elsewhere. For example, what is the point of scaring carrions away from one field of lambs, only for them to peck the eyes out of some others down the road? Exactly, it doesn't work, never did, & neither does gas guns, nor does any other method. The easy way around this is if they are on the field feeding/pecking eyes etc you can shoot them, if there not you risk breaking the terms of the GL. All this " non lethal controls " is just another hoop to jump through, it needs eliminated out of the GL completely, no ammo for the anti's then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 31 minutes ago, panoma1 said: If the extent and degree of scaring isn't specified it's open to interpretation! And nothing saying that you have to do it more than once. Having tried it many years ago and found it ineffective I moved onto the beretta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 (edited) Agreed but this time it seems to have happened out of the blue nobody see it coming which is always difficult on the whole I think basc do a good job and don’t like to knock any of the shooting organisations, but we definitely need a good organisation to fight our corner Edited April 27, 2019 by silver fox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgy dave Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 ho my gawd but from wat i heard basc had a chance to help ne but didnt want to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 41 minutes ago, panoma1 said: If the extent and degree of scaring isn't specified it's open to interpretation! the other point is, how many of the recommended non-lethal method are we/the farmer supposed to try before we use lethal methods? Another point is the wording, “unless their use would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in the circumstances” how do you prove that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 The way it is written it is deliberately left indeterminate as the law only says that all reasonable non-lethal steps should be exhausted but the licence does mention examples. I read this not as something that has to be done for each different day, or shot, but in order for example to demonstrate compliance for crop prevention, evidence should be recorded on prior methods of deterrence. As long as you can demonstrate that you have made efforts and that those have been unsuccessful, I think you are then entitled under the GL to shoot away and reduce numbers to an acceptable level. This really is what its always been. Same story with protection of livestock or for public health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rabbit Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, dodgy dave said: ho my gawd but from wat i heard basc had a chance to help ne but didnt want to know Do you honestly think a government body knew their actions were illegal and open to being taken to court over their incompetence but decided not to remedy the situation because BASC wouldn't help them? Does that actually sound plausible or more likely pointless BASC bashing? I read it was a quote second hand from a NE employee but I'm not buying it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 55 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Next case for Wild Justice to crowdfund legal action to prevent.......cruelty via damage to the hearing of pigeon caused by the reckless use of a gas gun! 😇 Would that be before or after the public have called for a ban on gas guns due to noise nuisance caused by the need to scare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodgy dave Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 Just now, White Rabbit said: Do you honestly think a government body knew their actions were illegal and open to being taken to court over their incompetence but decided not to remedy the situation because BASC wouldn't help them? Does that actually sound plausible or more likely pointless BASC bashing? I read it was a quote second hand from a NE employee but I'm not buying it at all. well they havnt been on too deny it ive called them out Just now, dodgy dave said: well they havnt been on too deny it ive called them out praps they have all gone home for the weekend and let the ship burn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, dodgy dave said: I read it was a quote second hand from a NE employee but I'm not buying it at all. More like civil servants from NE trying to shift the blame. It is their MO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 I wonder if the farmer's could invoice NE for a couple of hour's labour for the extra work each day trying to use non lethal methods and scaring them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted April 27, 2019 Report Share Posted April 27, 2019 21 minutes ago, old'un said: the other point is, how many of the recommended non-lethal method are we/the farmer supposed to try before we use lethal methods? Another point is the wording, “unless their use would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in the circumstances” how do you prove that? How far do you go, I think as long as you’ve made a reasonable attempt at scaring them off it should be fine, but I will start keeping a log of what I have done so if anybody says anything I can show them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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