Future Threats To Our Activities

[wymberley]

" Possibly like yourself, I dont see this current fiasco as being the last of our fights. Once the dust settles, the `Packhams` of this world will look for other causes to attack."

Not wishing to sidetrack the other thread, I've lifted this from JJ's Dad's post in the General Licence Discussion sub-forum because it's a good point.

Any opinions on where we may be vulnerable?

[bumpy22]

I read the other day they wanted the mammals looked at next

[Blackbriar]

Rearing" of birds for shooting" has long been in the sights of 'he whose name we must not mention'.

[JJsDad]

37 minutes ago, Blackbriar said:

Rearing" of birds for shooting" has long been in the sights of 'he whose name we must not mention'.

This is almost certainly in my humble view, the next vulnerable area.  The `dumping` of birds on the big 500 to 800 bird days is somewhat difficult to justify and has already been in the public eye and been roundly criticised. Guns who pay their money to shoot a 100 or more birds a day and then dont even take a brace home can only be doing it for one simple reason !

Once the dust settles on the General Licence chaos the anti-shooting brigade will be looking for the next target. Make no mistake, those that `hate` us and what we do, are not going to sit back while they have a gullible public funding their cause.

[Blackbriar]

2 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

This is almost certainly in my humble view, the next vulnerable area.  The `dumping` of birds on the big 500 to 800 bird days is somewhat difficult to justify and has already been in the public eye and been roundly criticised. Guns who pay their money to shoot a 100 or more birds a day and then dont even take a brace home can only be doing it for one simple reason !

Once the dust settles on the General Licence chaos the anti-shooting brigade will be looking for the next target. Make no mistake, those that `hate` us and what we do, are not going to sit back while they have a gullible public funding their cause.

..,..........and game shoots can be disrupted with minimal effort. A couple of the great unwashed turn up and all guns are put away - day ruined !

(I'm also sure they wouldn't miss the chance to throw in the odd "he pointed a gun at me, officer !")

[islandgun]

Its hard to see any future for shooting TBH 

Commercial game rearing

Driven shooting

Wader shooting  [woodcock, snipe, golden plover]

Hare,Jay, Stoat, Weasel [protected]

Pest shooting under licence will be allowed but strictly controlled, [depending upon which desirable bird spp they want to protect]  even rabbit will be subject to licence

Rough shooting, pest control and some fowling will be the last to go........................... clays will still be legal

 

 

Does the government pay full compensation for guns when they are withdrawn from circulation ? 

 

[Feltwad]

All types of shooting are vulnerable has past experiences has shown  shooting organisation s are many and weak with different principles which are  easily picked off  if they were all  under one roof would have more clout .

Feltwad

[rimfire4969]

1 hour ago, JJsDad said:

This is almost certainly in my humble view, the next vulnerable area.  The `dumping` of birds on the big 500 to 800 bird days is somewhat difficult to justify and has already been in the public eye and been roundly criticised. Guns who pay their money to shoot a 100 or more birds a day and then dont even take a brace home can only be doing it for one simple reason !

Once the dust settles on the General Licence chaos the anti-shooting brigade will be looking for the next target. Make no mistake, those that `hate` us and what we do, are not going to sit back while they have a gullible public funding their cause.

What is that reason?

[JJsDad]

24 minutes ago, rimfire4969 said:

What is that reason?

Because they enjoy the challenge of killing a bird that they have no intention what so ever of taking home and eating !

The anti-brigade call it "killing for fun".

Edited May 24, 2019 by JJsDad

[oowee]

Thinking forward, those of us active in country sports need to try to get on the front foot with much of this stuff. Be that taking a greater lead on conservation, environmental protection, sustainability (plastics and other pollutants), and preparing our position with regards to the shooting of mammals.

More high visibility conservation,. Recyclable cartridge cases and wads. Non toxic shot and propellant. Close seasons on mammals and wild birds. 

•  

Edited May 24, 2019 by oowee

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

Its hard to see any future for shooting TBH 

Commercial game rearing

Driven shooting

Wader shooting  [woodcock, snipe, golden plover]

Hare,Jay, Stoat, Weasel [protected]

Pest shooting under licence will be allowed but strictly controlled, [depending upon which desirable bird spp they want to protect]  even rabbit will be subject to licence

Rough shooting, pest control and some fowling will be the last to go........................... clays will still be legal

 

 

Does the government pay full compensation for guns when they are withdrawn from circulation ? 

 

As for clay shooting . will the day come where you must use non toxic shot on all sites ?

[islandgun]

7 minutes ago, marsh man said:

As for clay shooting . will the day come where you must use non toxic shot on all sites ?

Indeed ... and only half joking, the anti gun lobby will want single shot shotguns and shot size no larger than 7's

one thing MM you and me will be pushing up daisies by then.. , but for youngsters now ! , theres no way they will enjoy the freedoms we had..

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Thinking forward, those of us active in country sports need to try to get on the front foot with much of this stuff. Be that taking a greater lead on conservation, environmental protection, sustainability (plastics and other pollutants), and preparing our position with regards to the shooting of mammals.

More high visibility conservation,. Recyclable cartridge cases and wads. Non toxic shot and propellant. Close seasons on mammals and wild birds. 

•  

All of the above,  How about comparing the life of game to that of a battery hen, pointing out to vegans that if we followed their choice, all farm animals will be destroyed, that cheese and leather etc are bye  products of animal production, that land management is about diversity not monoculture.. We really need someone with clout to point out some simple home truths to the fools that are being manipulated by the likes of these wee freaks.

[norfolk dumpling]

The big threat is a GE and Beardy Bloke and his mob in charge. They want to ban all guns not used for professional purposes which, in one foul swoop, would outlaw game shooting, wildfowling etc. It's primarily an attack on Tory supporters. Class envy of the worst kind.

[Jacko3275]

1 hour ago, norfolk dumpling said:

The big threat is a GE and Beardy Bloke and his mob in charge. They want to ban all guns not used for professional purposes which, in one foul swoop, would outlaw game shooting, wildfowling etc. It's primarily an attack on Tory supporters. Class envy of the worst kind.

Am a working class bloke from a mining town who does not support Tory’s...I enjoy clay shooting and hoping to get in to crop protection does that mean I can keep my gun 

[wymberley]

Unless it has been changed and I haven't noticed, there is no requirement to provide a reason in order to have a shotgun. Apart from which, shooting clays and undertaking vermin control are two very good ones. Those who have been doing this with regards to pest birds for some time know what they were doing and why, but over the years this has morphed into a sport which it, under the law, is most certainly not. Consequently, in the current climate, it' essential to understand what the GLs do and do not permit 

[JJsDad]

32 minutes ago, Jacko3275 said:

does that mean I can keep my gun 

If Diane Abbott ends up in the Home Office the answer you are looking for is almost certainly "No" !

[Farmboy91]

18 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

If Diane Abbott ends up in the Home Office the answer you are looking for is almost certainly "No" !

I think we all know keeping our guns will be the least of our problems if she gets in. 

[Jacko3275]

She can’t add nevermind run a country

[old man]

8 hours ago, Feltwad said:

All types of shooting are vulnerable has past experiences has shown  shooting organisation s are many and weak with different principles which are  easily picked off  if they were all  under one roof would have more clout .

Feltwad

Certainly a valid point, they don, need to marry, just cohabit?

Personal opinion FWIW, the threat,? Everything shooting wise, associated with wild things first, animals for meat next. Vegans and insectivores seem trying rule along with the climate change twits?

The politicos can soon change a few gun ownership laws, enjoy shooting while you can, 30 years at most? The army can shoot all of the deer and boar if required?

It certainly helps the opposition when a large section of our community doesn't understand the rules of the licences?

3 hours ago, Jacko3275 said:

Am a working class bloke from a mining town who does not support Tory’s...I enjoy clay shooting and hoping to get in to crop protection does that mean I can keep my gun 

Not for long? The criminal sector being anonymous may be ok though?

Edited May 24, 2019 by old man
spelling

[FOXHUNTER1]

I too worry that it is the thin edge of the wedge , all fieldsports are in danger. I feel sorry for the future generations not being able to enjoy the countryside like I have been privileged to do .

Game shooting is at risk next I think as its hard to defend releasing large amounts of gamebirds to be shot for fun ...

 

[islandgun]

48 minutes ago, FOXHUNTER1 said:

I too worry that it is the thin edge of the wedge , all fieldsports are in danger. I feel sorry for the future generations not being able to enjoy the countryside like I have been privileged to do .

Game shooting is at risk next I think as its hard to defend releasing large amounts of gamebirds to be shot for fun ...

 

Agreed, very hard to defend, the public arnt all that interested in way of life or tradition.. it would be easier if the birds ended up in the food chain and comparisons were made between a free range pheasant and a battery hen......... others will argue that we shouldnt have to defend our past time or career, but sadly in a country controlled by the media and go fund me or by a public that perceives shooting as barbaric whilst munching on a KFC its going to be hard  

[lancer425]

Nobody can tell what the future holds for shooting, and we have been under attack for over 100 years and why Duncan founded WAGBI in 1908. We were under threat then and he could see it, so we are not the first generation to fear for our future.

 but on a slightly more positive note we are the cream we are the most motivated generation we have to be in order to even be shooters in the uk today, The whole gun licensing aspect besides everything else is testament to our commitment to our way of life. This is not just another hobby its a connection a fulfilment of an in built desire that is what the drive to carry on is built on. Being primarily a wildfowler we as a comunity used to trouble its always been there  right from the times of the afore said Stanley duncan again a wildfowler.  In my lifetime the 60s i was small and never remember hearing of bad times but they must have been some, the 70s saw changes just small changes from the EEC and in 79 the Bird Directive that caused all this fiassco with the GLs, leading on to the 1981  WL&CA. Shooting took two knee jerk motivated for want of a better word from two atrocious dreadful massacres at Hungerford and Dunblaine the subsequent backlash we are still feeling today in our ever evolving gun laws.  Noon tox came into wildfowling in England ill thought out Rushed and we were given what we were given, Scotland took their time and worked out IMO a slighhtly better fair approach to non tox. Notice the similarity of NON tox to the GLs in the current times. Whatever we end up with i think the scottish will at least get chance of a better consultation and as such perhaps better rules.

Next up for wildfowlers English Nature now natural England we were landed with consents then a woman from their leeds office god bless here dreamed up Visits and despite being unbiased as an organisation NE do a good job of convincing many Wildfowling clubs that they might not be as totally unbiased as they are supposed to be.

 this is an on going battle of wills and with every complication restriction or talk of restriction us shooters face we have always said this is the start of the end right back as far as i can remember we have been through this, and there as been other IMV less important events c i have not mentioned, my point being here, nothing new under the sun i have said it many times recently. We have seen the film before and i am sure its not going to stop.

Do i think we will survive?  YES!

DO i think our lives will become more complex tied up with red tape ?  YES! its always like this but we will survive because we can we are committed country people and we are a part of and love what we do.

Right now we need to stop fretting like a load of old nay sayers at a naysayers convention, and just go mow the lawns clean out the horses go Foxing whatever , but we need to stay calm sit back and wait and see whats next from the GOVernment. Who knows we might be pleasantly suprised, perhaps a Season something like that to at least negate once and for all this unsuitable bodge up welding job that held for 40 years untill chriss packam and two  more fat people ran a crowd funded chisel through the oxidised welds that were never intended to be that structural there was no need in those dim and distant times.

 

 

[bostonmick]

54 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

 

Right now we need to stop fretting like a load of old nay sayers at a naysayers convention, and just go mow the lawns clean out the horses go Foxing whatever , but we need to stay calm sit back and wait and see whats next from the GOVernment. Who knows we might be pleasantly suprised, perhaps a Season something like that to at least negate once and for all this unsuitable bodge up welding job that held for 40 years untill chriss packam and two  more fat people ran a crowd funded chisel through the oxidised welds that were never intended to be that structural there was no need in those dim and distant times.

 

 

Surely sitting back and remaining calm is exactly what brought us to the current situation. Packham and friends did a publicly open fund raise for the purpose of going to court over the gl. And while all the organisations and the shooting public were busy sitting back in a calm manner we can all sit back and be as calm as you like now as it's all lost. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by bostonmick

[lancer425]

33 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

Surely sitting back and remaining calm is exactly what brought us to the current situation. Packham and friends did a publicly open fund raise for the purpose of going to court over the gl. And while all the organisations and the shooting public were busy sitting back in a calm manner we can all sit back and be as calm as you like now as it's all lost. 

No WJ exploited a weak spot submitted a councils opinion that was evidence enough to prove they would be on for a solid chance of a win and got  if it ever  went to court, then Natural England decided the GL was a potential problem for them legally so they made the decision to withdraw the licence. BASC NGO or anybody else had no warning whatsoever and was unexpected . Even WJ were surprised.

Its all here warts and all BASC nobody else  could stop this. At this very moment in time all we can do is wait. see what the government come up with.

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3610d6cf-6d1e-45ed-ab7f-3b6c0f9a5c43 

Edited May 25, 2019 by lancer425