London Best Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 An American PW member posted recently, “since when was a crow not about to predate.” I can’t find the post to quote, but likewise when was a wood pigeon not about to eat barley/wheat/peas/brussels/whatever? Even if it/they are eating chickweed today then tomorrow they will be eating crops because that is what they do. I don’t see a problem with pre-emptive control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 hours ago, London Best said: An American PW member posted recently, “since when was a crow not about to predate.” I can’t find the post to quote, but likewise when was a wood pigeon not about to eat barley/wheat/peas/brussels/whatever? Even if it/they are eating chickweed today then tomorrow they will be eating crops because that is what they do. I don’t see a problem with pre-emptive control. But that isn't how the GL is written, or to be interpreted.. Pigeons feed on ivy but we don't protect that as its not a crop. Acorns also are not a crop as such and they eat them. They eat my bird seed in my garden but I can't just drop it off the feeder.. A pigeon flying past if I'm shooting crows off a silage pit is a sporting shot as its just flighting past, its not coming into feed allowing it to be shot under the conditions on the GL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 Honestly I never thought that there would be so many namby pamby, wishy washy, scaredy cats on this forum. Read the General Licence and get out and shoot those pigeons and Corvids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaunda Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 " Lex non minimus curat " - get on with it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said: But that isn't how the GL is written, or to be interpreted.. Pigeons feed on ivy but we don't protect that as its not a crop. Acorns also are not a crop as such and they eat them. They eat my bird seed in my garden but I can't just drop it off the feeder.. A pigeon flying past if I'm shooting crows off a silage pit is a sporting shot as its just flighting past, its not coming into feed allowing it to be shot under the conditions on the GL. I think I must have it wrong. Perhaps I should ask what can't you do instead of what can you do with regards to the GLs. Then, when everyone comes back and says there isn't anything, I can then ask why we have them at all. I started shooting well before the Original Defra issued versions and must say because of illness I didn't shoot under the 20 series GLs which recently appeared for the few weeks, but with that exception, I have never had to do anything different to what I was originally doing before the advent of these controls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXHUNTER1 Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, JDog said: Honestly I never thought that there would be so many namby pamby, wishy washy, scaredy cats on this forum. Read the General Licence and get out and shoot those pigeons and Corvids. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYA117 Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 6 hours ago, wymberley said: I think I must have it wrong. Perhaps I should ask what can't you do instead of what can you do with regards to the GLs. Then, when everyone comes back and says there isn't anything, I can then ask why we have them at all. I started shooting well before the Original Defra issued versions and must say because of illness I didn't shoot under the 20 series GLs which recently appeared for the few weeks, but with that exception, I have never had to do anything different to what I was originally doing before the advent of these controls. I agree, I saw the old GL come in, but clearly quite a few of the later people to join the sport were unaware that they even existed, it was a quick look at the quarry list or a 'mate' said and off you went. Personally I think the new GLs are better. The best thing to come out of it, is that a lot more shooters are now aware that they exist and that can only be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 I'm confused - is the Collard Dove back on the GL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, bruno22rf said: I'm confused - is the Collard Dove back on the GL? If you read the new GL you'll find the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 15 hours ago, kaunda said: " Lex non minimus curat " - get on with it ! There was a young law student named Rex, who had a very small sex organ, when charged with exposure, he said with composure, De minimis non curat lex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Well I've spent 10 minutes searching and I cannot see it mentioned anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 8 hours ago, bruno22rf said: I'm confused - is the Collard Dove back on the GL? No, but go to the NGO website for a full explanation - or, of course, you could just crack on regardless this seeming to be a favourite option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Firstly, I do not engage with politicians on a professional level so apologies if me making a clear statement regarding you to the General licences was classed as being 'political' However, I have been asked for a more definitive answer , well here goes: In the scenario given above its clear that the pigeons are being shot legitimately under the new GL as other methods of control have been tried and found to be ineffective, thus lethal control of the pigeons is allowed. However , no where in the current or old GL's does it say its OK to simply take a pot shot at a bird , so that action would not be legal as its not under the GL. As I and others have said, all must be fully aware of the GL's and what they allow and do not allow, ignorance will be no defence, and perhaps more to the point, people not complying with the law will bring shooting into disrepute, and that is not something we want or need is it? The law is the law its up to you to comply. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, bruno22rf said: Well I've spent 10 minutes searching and I cannot see it mentioned anywhere. Does the fact that it's not mentioned in the GL not tell you something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 On 19/06/2019 at 10:02, ShootingEgg said: And that is where you are in a huge gray area. That pigeon was just flying over. No one knows where it was headed or what it was about to do.. By that logic, we may as well all give up shooting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 18 hours ago, ShootingEgg said: But that isn't how the GL is written, or to be interpreted.. Pigeons feed on ivy but we don't protect that as its not a crop. Acorns also are not a crop as such and they eat them. They eat my bird seed in my garden but I can't just drop it off the feeder.. A pigeon flying past if I'm shooting crows off a silage pit is a sporting shot as its just flighting past, its not coming into feed allowing it to be shot under the conditions on the GL. Why have BASC come out and said roost shooting and stubble shooting are ok? On 18/06/2019 at 10:06, wymberley said: Scenario: The recently cut silage is sprouting well with clover in particular showing through and on a recce' you see it's blue with pigeon. Having tried everything you can think of, you finally decide that there's no other option so get the kit. A productive day has kept the field clear and you have a half decent bag into the bargain which includes a crow and a jackdaw which offered the chance of a pot shot. Or not legal quarry? Is this in anyway related to my recent post in Sporting Pictures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 If a shooter was happy to shoot pigeons and corvids under the old General Licence they should feel very comfortable shooting them under the new one. If those who are contributing on this and other threads on the same subject matter have never shot pigeons and corvids then they should declare their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitetail Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 So by some members thinking flight shooting will be now be illegal along with roost shooting because your not sure whether the birds been eating someone's crop.Are you going to wait for a corvid to actually be destroying a bird nest in front of you before shooting it . I think we're extremely lucky how things have turned out , common sense prevailed in the end 3 hours ago, JDog said: If a shooter was happy to shoot pigeons and corvids under the old General Licence they should feel very comfortable shooting them under the new one. If those who are contributing on this and other threads on the same subject matter have never shot pigeons and corvids then they should declare their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, motty said: By that logic, we may as well all give up shooting! A pigeon just flying over will be deemed as a pot shot. So sporting.. This is how this whole mad scenario started. That's all I'm saying. Pigeons are shot for pest control and protection of crops etc. Not 'sport' Same as the original post stated the corvids presented pot shots whne out decoying pigeons. Edited June 20, 2019 by ShootingEgg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXHUNTER1 Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, ShootingEgg said: A pigeon just flying over will be deemed as a pot shot. So sporting.. This is how this whole mad scenario started. That's all I'm saying. Pigeons are shot for pest control and protection of crops etc. Not 'sport' Same as the original post stated the corvids presented pot shots whne out decoying pigeons. Not really the corvids were on there way to plunder songbird nests . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, ShootingEgg said: A pigeon just flying over will be deemed as a pot shot. So sporting.. This is how this whole mad scenario started. That's all I'm saying. Pigeons are shot for pest control and protection of crops etc. Not 'sport' Same as the original post stated the corvids presented pot shots whne out decoying pigeons. My point was that nobody knows for sure whether a pigeon is about to cause damage. The only way to know would be to wait for it to land and start eating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scolopax Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 What we need is a pigeon shooter, preferably two, one shooting over stubble, one roost shooting. To get arrested for shooting woodpigeons against the terms of the GL. Then for the poor unfortunates to go to court. This is the only way these 'grey' areas will get sorted. Any Volunteers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, scolopax said: What we need is a pigeon shooter, preferably two, one shooting over stubble, one roost shooting. To get arrested for shooting woodpigeons against the terms of the GL. Then for the poor unfortunates to go to court. This is the only way these 'grey' areas will get sorted. Any Volunteers? That’ll help obviously you’re the first one to volunteer 😂 a few of my clients are police officers in a rural area iv asked them about this and they weren’t even aware of the general license let alone the changes there biggest concern was safety and noise complaints Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 Policemen - rural areas!? Flippin' 'eck, down here that qualifies as a contradiction in terms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatureBoy Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Old farrier said: That’ll help obviously you’re the first one to volunteer 😂 a few of my clients are police officers in a rural area iv asked them about this and they weren’t even aware of the general license let alone the changes there biggest concern was safety and noise complaints Same there OF! I asked rural officers serving and retired and got the same answers! FLO had not heard of GL or Natural England before it came up! All like a bit of pigeon and game tho. NB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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