Scully Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 39 minutes ago, dodgy dave said: why did you shoot me grandad breaks your heart Those words and that image are going to haunt that man for the rest of his life. Tragic beyond words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3vert Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, Scully said: Those words and that image are going to haunt that man for the rest of his life. Tragic beyond words. With his daughter saying he has never once said sorry, sadly I doubt they will haunt him. I think he got off very lightly from what we read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, dodgy dave said: why did you shoot me grandad breaks your heart I cannot unsee that either. Very nearly brought a tear to my eye last night. My ex now doesn't want to give my lad the air rifle id brought him for he's birthday later in the month, although from what I read in the article my boy had a better grasp of gun saftey than the poor lads grandad had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, ShootingEgg said: Although I do agree, a sub 12ft lb in the wrong hands is as deadly as an FAC. Licensing wouldn't of stopped him owning it though, it stated in the report he didn't apply for a licence due to medical reasons. So again it's illegally held by someone who wouldn't of got a licence. And law abiding owners who will get the screw tightened Oh come on, next thing you'll be saying is a potato gun is just as dangerous. ANY gun FAC is more powerful than 12ft lb, that means anything FAC gets potentially more dangerous/lethal as the power goes up. The rest of your post is on the nose, but that statement is a little naive! Edited July 3, 2019 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 17 hours ago, panoma1 said: His daughter is now calling for ALL air guns to be licenced.......I sympathise with her loss, but her ire should be directed at the criminal, who was knowingly in possession of a modified air gun, which was in law, an illegal firearm!............Rather than trying to demonise standard sub 12 foot pound airguns, which are and should remain perfectly legal to hold off ticket. This is a tragic situation where apparently an idiot of an illegal firearm owner killed his grandson. His daughter is obviously suffering but sadly this is an uninformed/illogical/kneejerk request for licencing of all airguns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Dekers said: Oh come on, next thing you'll be saying is a potato gun is just as dangerous. ANY gun FAC is more powerful than 12ft lb, that means anything FAC gets potentially more dangerous/lethal as the power goes up. The rest of your post is on the nose, but that statement is a little naive! Do you not think a sub 12ft air rifle hitting you in say the eye will do more than just sting? Close enough a sub 12ft would pose a very real threat to life if hitting someone in vital areas. This is only my opinion of course, and I don't want to test my opinion out. Edited July 3, 2019 by ShootingEgg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, m3vert said: With his daughter saying he has never once said sorry, sadly I doubt they will haunt him. I think he got off very lightly from what we read. Either way, we’ll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 15 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said: Do you not think a sub 12ft air rifle hitting you in say the eye will do more than just sting? Close enough a sub 12ft would pose a very real threat to life if hitting someone in vital areas. This is only my opinion of course, and I don't want to test my opinion out. Of course it will do more than sting, but you didn't say that, you said ………... ….…...a sub 12ft lb in the wrong hands is as deadly as an FAC. it isn't, if a 15-20-30-40-50-60 etc ft lb air rifle took the same shot your chances of survival would decrease at every power hike level! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Dekers said: Of course it will do more than sting, but you didn't say that, you said ………... ….…...a sub 12ft lb in the wrong hands is as deadly as an FAC. it isn't, if a 15-20-30-40-50-60 etc ft lb air rifle took the same shot your chances of survival would decrease at every power hike level! Alright luv calm down. Thought the obvious 'in the wrong hands' would be enough, didn't know I had to get a pie chart out for you with ballistic reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said: Alright luv calm down. Thought the obvious 'in the wrong hands' would be enough, didn't know I had to get a pie chart out for you with ballistic reports. You made a statement, it was wrong, kindly do not tell me to calm down and don't call me luv! Think before you post! If you showed any sort of chart it would show you were wrong, there is no chart you can show that says a sub 12ft lb in the wrong hands is as deadly as an FAC. A 12 ft lb in any hands is not as deadly a FAC gun. Edited July 3, 2019 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 One has to wonder what modifications the bloke did to the rifle if we are to believe the reports of a "half inch wound" (was it?) and "it went right through" parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Dave-G said: One has to wonder what modifications the bloke did to the rifle if we are to believe the reports of a "half inch wound" (was it?) and "it went right through" parts. It would be staggering if it was a half inch entry, and to go right through it was way over 12 ft lb, even assuming it only hit soft tissue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 28 minutes ago, Dave-G said: One has to wonder what modifications the bloke did to the rifle if we are to believe the reports of a "half inch wound" (was it?) and "it went right through" parts. Just change the spring? I bet there’s a lot of people out there that have changed their springs in air rifles and are over 12ft/lb and they’re not even aware this isn’t legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Lloyd90 said: Just change the spring? I bet there’s a lot of people out there that have changed their springs in air rifles and are over 12ft/lb and they’re not even aware this isn’t legal. That's as maybe, a heavy duty spring, (whether it be hammer spring in a PCP or main spring in break barrel) will increase the power. We have media reports here, and they are designed to sensationalise, but a half inch wound (detail unspecified) and going right through needs a lot more than 12ft lb! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) A local report here in Hull, says the rifle in question was between 14 and 15ft pound and the pellet passed through the youngsters abdomen at close range. I was a little shocked at that and I guess it shows that even a 12ft rifle can indeed be very dangerous in the wrong hands. A very tragic story whatever. Edited July 3, 2019 by aga man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason g Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 I thought a firearms offence was 5 years plus killing the kid he should hang. This is why our country is in such a mess lack of real justice, poor kid, poor family Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, aga man said: A local report here in Hull, says the rifle in question was between 14 and 15ft pound and the pellet passed through the youngsters abdomen at close range. I was a little shocked at that and I guess it shows that even a 12ft rifle can indeed be very dangerous in the wrong hands. A very tragic story whatever. It can be dangerous in any hands, I am not disputing that, and have never said otherwise, but is will NEVER be as potentially dangerous as a FAC gun, even 13 ft lb is more dangerous that 12! We do not know the trajectory of the pellet, the depth of penetration or what it hit, but if it was 14-15ft lb and passed clean through it is pretty obvious it only hit soft tissue, and frankly I still scratch my head at that!. I have a stack of guns and a lot of experience, at the low end 12ft lb and 26ft lb FAC Air, I know what the 26ft lb will do, and it is a lot more that 14-15ft lb. The whole story is tragic, and frankly the media reports still leave a lot of questions (don't they always). Edited July 3, 2019 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aga man Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 15 minutes ago, Dekers said: frankly the media reports still leave a lot of questions (don't they always). My post was by no means directed at anything you said Dekers. I agree the media reports are rarely very detailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, aga man said: My post was by no means directed at anything you said Dekers. I agree the media reports are rarely very detailed. They rarely let the truth get in the way of a good story and when it comes to anything firearms, they tend to be clueless in their comments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boristhedog Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/r-v-grannon-sentencing-remarks.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 12 hours ago, Boristhedog said: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/r-v-grannon-sentencing-remarks.pdf Wow ☹ I doubt his remaining years will be happy ones with that on your conscience. And the rest of the family will carry it all their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenBhoy Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 He checking to see if it loaded by pulling the trigger(??!!) whilst pointing it at his grandson??? Eh???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 On 04/07/2019 at 15:30, Mice! said: Wow ☹ I doubt his remaining years will be happy ones with that on your conscience. And the rest of the family will carry it all their lives. The judgement makes for saddening reading. I sense that him being 78 had a fair bit to do with the accident. Of course, there's the 'he would say that wouldn't he?' argument, but I get the impression that he seemed genuinely confused about how the accident had actually happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 On 03/07/2019 at 18:49, Dekers said: <snip> We do not know the trajectory of the pellet, the depth of penetration or what it hit, but if it was 14-15ft lb and passed clean through it is pretty obvious it only hit soft tissue, and frankly I still scratch my head at that!. <snip> Just speculation (obviously). But the iliac artery has a number of divisions and leads to the femoral. One branch is quite close to the iliac crest (boney ridge at the top side of pelvis). So if the entry was close to the side and/or angled, a through and through is entirely possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 5 hours ago, Retsdon said: The judgement makes for saddening reading. I sense that him being 78 had a fair bit to do with the accident. Of course, there's the 'he would say that wouldn't he?' argument, but I get the impression that he seemed genuinely confused about how the accident had actually happened. I'll bet he was so confused that he had also forgotten from where he purchased the weapon and who did the illegal conversion to it, prior to collection too ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.