Brexit - merged threads

[JRDS]

So we can remain with her deal or remain, some choice!!

[JRDS]

40 minutes ago, oowee said:

The prime minister said she will put her withdrawal agreement - including any changes she has agreed with the EU - to a meaningful vote on 12 March.

If that fails, MPs will be offered two separate votes:

• One, on 13 March, on whether MPs support a no-deal Brexit - so the UK would "only leave without a deal on 29 March if there is explicit consent in the House for that outcome"
• If that fails, then MPs will get a vote the following day on requesting an extension to the two-year Article 50 negotiation process to delay EU withdrawal beyond 29 March

"Let me be clear, I do not want to see Article 50 extended," she told MPs. 

🤐

 

That is correct, she wants it revoking her and the EU's combined plan from day 1.  Hence the European Court ruling we can revoke it unilaterally, took about a day to decide when their decisions usually take months or years.  The last 2 1/2 years have been one big charade from our own Govt / The EU / Big Business / The Media for the benefit of us unwashed Plebs who voted out. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by JRDS

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

No chance; we're British. The Brits often give the French stick for being surrender monkies, but I've never regarded them as such; they got rid of their monarchy and if they're not happy about something they will take to the streets. We will complain bitterly, whinge and sulk for ages, then someone will organise a rally but it'll rain so we'll stop at home. 

I seriously doubt we will be leaving, and everyone who is opposed to us leaving will feel heartened by a cynical Labour turnabout to favour another referendum, and those who oppose us leaving will gather momentum in their pursuit of overturning the democratic vote of the majority. We shouldn't even be contemplating another vote, and even if there was one it should only be about our method of leaving. To 'remain' shouldn't even be an option as the majority have already voted to leave. That part has been settled. 

I regard those who would overturn that democratic vote as scum, absolute scum. These are bad days for our democratic process. 

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

They cannot vote: https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/faq/voting-and-registration/who-is-eligible-to-vote-at-a-uk-general-election

 

But they do !!!!!!!  My mum's Hungarian carer and her husband both voted in the referendum and so did all their mates. They were issued with poling cards "in error" (conveniently)

[Newbie to this]

27 minutes ago, Scully said:

I regard those who would overturn that democratic vote as scum, absolute scum. These are bad days for our democratic process

💯% I couldn't agree with you more.

[crosswaters]

24 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

💯% I couldn't agree with you more.

Me also 

[JohnfromUK]

56 minutes ago, Scully said:

"a cynical Labour turnabout"

This is typical Corbyn.  He has always 'opposed', be it his own party, the friendly side, Government policy, banning the return of Begum - whatever it is he opposes it.

For this reason alone, he is totally unsuited to high office because he in completely unprincipled (other than the doctrine of 'oppose')

[Rewulf]

48 minutes ago, Scully said:

No chance; we're British. The Brits often give the French stick for being surrender monkies, but I've never regarded them as such; they got rid of their monarchy and if they're not happy about something they will take to the streets. We will complain bitterly, whinge and sulk for ages, then someone will organise a rally but it'll rain so we'll stop at home. 

Although I broadly agree you, yes we are a bit wishy washy when it comes a demo, it all really depends on the seriousness of the matter, we have had fuel hike demos before, poll tax riots ?

Can you imagine what the French would be like if they had done a Frexit, and their government refused to act upon it?
Or if remain had won, but they decided to leave anyway ?
Theyve rioted 4 months on the trot because fuel went up 25p !

What it comes down to is this, how would you feel if the referendum result is ignored and we stay in the EU ?
If you dont don the yellow vest and  hit the streets, wheres your vote going, your support ?
We get back to square 1 , a UKIP style party would become that strong they would be impossible to ignore, the EU are already quaking in their boots about the EU parliament elections later this year.
Overall its going to create anger, and lots of it.

So I dont think Brexit is lost by any stretch, yes it could be delayed, it could be a they call a 2nd, but you simply cannot get away from the fact that a good half or more of the electorate want out, and thats way too many to ignore.

 

 

[Scully]

12 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Although I broadly agree you, yes we are a bit wishy washy when it comes a demo, it all really depends on the seriousness of the matter, we have had fuel hike demos before, poll tax riots ?

Can you imagine what the French would be like if they had done a Frexit, and their government refused to act upon it?
Or if remain had won, but they decided to leave anyway ?
Theyve rioted 4 months on the trot because fuel went up 25p !

What it comes down to is this, how would you feel if the referendum result is ignored and we stay in the EU ?
If you dont don the yellow vest and  hit the streets, wheres your vote going, your support ?
We get back to square 1 , a UKIP style party would become that strong they would be impossible to ignore, the EU are already quaking in their boots about the EU parliament elections later this year.
Overall its going to create anger, and lots of it.

So I dont think Brexit is lost by any stretch, yes it could be delayed, it could be a they call a 2nd, but you simply cannot get away from the fact that a good half or more of the electorate want out, and thats way too many to ignore.

 

 

I agree entirely regarding the French, and as deep seated as my hatred for authority is, it has been my tickets for the best part of thirty five years which have kept me on the right side of the law, so I can't see me doing anything to jeopardise that. I know for a fact I would find it extremely hard to resist confrontation if faced with provocation by those who would thwart the democratic process, which is exactly what they would hope for.

I can hope for and advocate civil unrest from the safety of my armchair, and accept that as hypocritical as that may make me, I would, for the sake of my tickets, be staying away, even if the sun were shining. 🙂

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, Scully said:

I agree entirely regarding the French, and as deep seated as my hatred for authority is, it has been my tickets for the best part of thirty five years which have kept me on the right side of the law, so I can't see me doing anything to jeopardise that. I know for a fact I would find it extremely hard to resist confrontation if faced with provocation by those who would thwart the democratic process, which is exactly what they would hope for.

I can hope for and advocate civil unrest from the safety of my armchair, and accept that as hypocritical as that may make me, I would, for the sake of my tickets, be staying away, even if the sun were shining. 🙂

Agree 100%
I have exactly the same issue, if I didnt have to watch myself , ticket wise, I would be far more likely to 'get involved' 

[Scully]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Agree 100%
I have exactly the same issue, if I didnt have to watch myself , ticket wise, I would be far more likely to 'get involved' 

😂 Frustrating isn't it? 

[Rewulf]

Just now, Scully said:

😂 Frustrating isn't it? 

Yes , but probably for the best, getting a bit long in the tooth for it now.
Trouble is, if you sent the youth of today out on a march, theyd trip over their feet looking at their phone screens 😃

[Scully]

16 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Yes , but probably for the best, getting a bit long in the tooth for it now.
 

Me too 👍

Edited February 26, 2019 by Scully

[oowee]

Seems to me that despite all of the bluster on here blaming EU and Corbyn for all the ills of Brexit it's the Tories that are in power. The Tories that put the vote on the table. The Tories were presumably cognisant of the issues that would need to be resolved as part of the process. 

The people voted out and the Tories that have delivered a dogs dinner in return.

Or the Tories had no idea what they were doing and played fast and loose with the electorate. 

It's no wonder that people are so frustrated with the whole fiasco.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

Seems to me that despite all of the bluster on here blaming EU and Corbyn for all the ills of Brexit it's the Tories that are in power. The Tories that put the vote on the table. The Tories were presumably cognisant of the issues that would need to be resolved as part of the process. 

The people voted out and the Tories that have delivered a dogs dinner in return.

Or the Tories had no idea what they were doing and played fast and loose with the electorate. 

It's no wonder that people are so frustrated with the whole fiasco.

Amen to that!

[pinfireman]

8 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

What do you guys think would be the effect of us not leaving? I understand that there is a view that democracy would be over as far as some people are concerned but what would actually happen / change?

"as far as some people are concerned" ...?  As far as ALL those people who believe in democracy.. or don,t you believe in democracy?

8 hours ago, Vince Green said:

The real tragedy in all of this is that after the referendum Farage "retired" and UKIP decended into Looney Tunes. If they were still up and running, banging the Brexit drum none of this would be happening.

 

How very true!

[pinfireman]

8 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Again - as I have said before on this thread, I have time for Farage and his views - and he expresses them well.

BUT he has never managed to form a credible party,  The rest have been somewhere between a largely anonymous shambles and a few 'thugs' known only for all the wrong reasons.  Sadly my conclusion is that Nigel Farage is one of those people who I believe cannot successfully 'work with others in a team' - which is essential to have any party with credibility to win seats in Parliament.

Without him, and UKIP, there would NEVER have been a Referendum!  It was the UKIP  annihilation in the 2014 EU elections, that frightened the pants off the 3 major parties, and lead to Cameron calling for a Referendum, in the belief that Remain would win, and we would be tied to the EU forever more! No politician in the last 30 years has had such an impact on UK politics (for which he will never get on the Honours List! I doubt he would want to!)

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, oowee said:

Seems to me that despite all of the bluster on here blaming EU and Corbyn for all the ills of Brexit it's the Tories that are in power. The Tories that put the vote on the table. The Tories were presumably cognisant of the issues that would need to be resolved as part of the process. 

The people voted out and the Tories that have delivered a dogs dinner in return.

Or the Tories had no idea what they were doing and played fast and loose with the electorate. 

It's no wonder that people are so frustrated with the whole fiasco.

I genuinely believe the government gave us the vote believing we would vote to remain. They then gave the job of negotiating the leave process to someone who doesn't want to leave. 

[pinfireman]

8 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Do you think some kind of compromise could be achieved, something like going back with the original vetoes that Cameron originally sought with some amendments perhaps - do you think that could be acceptable to the majority of those who voted out on basis of WTO terms? To be clear I'm not advocating this but just interested in exploring the scenarios in the event of Brexit stalemate.

Total garbage! We voted to LEAVE! Not part leave, not fractionally Leave, BUT LEAVE COMPLETELY! No one I know (and I talk to quite a few people on this matter), have changed their views one iota! We want to LEAVE!

[Raja Clavata]

5 minutes ago, pinfireman said:

"as far as some people are concerned" ...?  As far as ALL those people who believe in democracy.. or don,t you believe in democracy?

I believe in democracy, it definitely exists

[pinfireman]

8 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Firstly, I believe that now we are where we are - and the EU have seen what Parliaments views are and can see the 'no deal' taken off the table - I can see the EU hardening their position and giving nothing (along with snide remarks from the detestable and despicable Tusk and Verhofstat.  They have effectively won - and in my view because;

1. Our negotiating team have been far to weak and ready to give in - led by remain believing civil servants
2. Parliament has done it's best to undermine any strong negotiating position
3. The likes of Blair, Corbyn, Starmer have been in and out of the EU offices undermining the Government position - the EU should NEVER have spoken to anyone outside (Her Majesty's) elected Government
4. They held to their 'red lines' whilst we threw all of ours away
5. When May did go to the Country for backing - all she got was a kick in the teeth.

On  5  she should NOT have gone to the country, she had a working majority. And to go to the country with a manifesto that made her Party look like the Nasty Party was a disaster!

6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Exactly! And not before time!

[JRDS]

8 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

What do you guys think would be the effect of us not leaving? I understand that there is a view that democracy would be over as far as some people are concerned but what would actually happen / change?

With feelings so very very high who can say, but I think anything could and probably will happen given the vast unprecedented level of betrayal being visited on us by Parliament whose ridiculous wages and expenses we pay (some expenses 4 x 77K salary for what can anyone name one positive thing they do for us other than abject patronising betrayal??) 

Edited February 26, 2019 by JRDS

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, pinfireman said:

On  5  she should NOT have gone to the country, she had a working majority. And to go to the country with a manifesto that made her Party look like the Nasty Party was a disaster!

I don't disagree with any of that.

[pinfireman]

6 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

They cannot vote: https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/faq/voting-and-registration/who-is-eligible-to-vote-at-a-uk-general-election

 

That is something Corbyn means to change!

[besty57]

7 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I believe in democracy, it definitely exists

Just not in the uk.