Brexit - merged threads

[Rewulf]

This is interesting. 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1109726/brexit-news-eu-article-50-brexit-delay-illegal-richard-aikens

He is one of 2 appeal court judges who have examined the case, and come to the same conclusion, the counter argument is that EU law is sovereign, so it doesn't apply, however it states that within A50, UK law applies in this case. 

But like I've already said, regarding extensions ect, the EU, with our government assisting, are pretty much making the rules up as they go along. 

Update

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/breaking-article-50-extension-case-now-fully-served/amp/

Edited April 5, 2019 by Rewulf
Update

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

This is interesting. 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1109726/brexit-news-eu-article-50-brexit-delay-illegal-richard-aikens

He is one of 2 appeal court judges who have examined the case, and come to the same conclusion, the counter argument is that EU law is sovereign, so it doesn't apply, however it states that within A50, UK law applies in this case. 

But like I've already said, regarding extensions ect, the EU, with our government assisting, are pretty much making the rules up as they go along. 

Update

https://unitynewsnetwork.co.uk/breaking-article-50-extension-case-now-fully-served/amp/

Be interesting to see what comes of this, although I fear its one of those occasions where the government will do what it wants regardless of the law. I have no doubt brexit will never be delivered, what this whole Brexit sarga has achieved, is to expose the fact the political system in this country is undemocratic, we the people are ruled over, we are given the vote to keep us quiet and under control, not to enact any real change, that fact in itself could cause the biggest revolution this country has ever seen and I think the consequences whether good or bad are going to ripple out over the next several decades. 

[mick miller]

Who was it that said 'it doesn't matter whom you vote for, the establishment always get in'? 

All you need to know. 

[henry d]

Possible 12 month extension! The NHS had better be ready for an increase in patients with blood pressure and heart problems.

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Be interesting to see what comes of this, although I fear its one of those occasions where the government will do what it wants regardless of the law. I have no doubt brexit will never be delivered, what this whole Brexit sarga has achieved, is to expose the fact the political system in this country is undemocratic, we the people are ruled over, we are given the vote to keep us quiet and under control, not to enact any real change, that fact in itself could cause the biggest revolution this country has ever seen and I think the consequences whether good or bad are going to ripple out over the next several decades. 

You have to also spare a thought for the Civil Servants in this process. There are not many of us on this forum that would be prepared to work 12 hour days over the last year or so and give up weekends at short notice without any recompense. Talking to a couple of friends that have been dragged in from energy to trade that have worked best part of 55 hours a week for last three weeks. Whatever happened to EU working time directive?

It would be nice to think that the politicians would recognise the failure of the systems to deal with such political issues which are going to get a lot worse yet and move to a greater representative system. I doubt that will happen wwe have a lot more lurching left to right and procrastination, deadlock before we get to sensible cooperation.

 

[12gauge82]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

You have to also spare a thought for the Civil Servants in this process. There are not many of us on this forum that would be prepared to work 12 hour days over the last year or so and give up weekends at short notice without any recompense. Talking to a couple of friends that have been dragged in from energy to trade that have worked best part of 55 hours a week for last three weeks. Whatever happened to EU working time directive?

It would be nice to think that the politicians would recognise the failure of the systems to deal with such political issues which are going to get a lot worse yet and move to a greater representative system. I doubt that will happen wwe have a lot more lurching left to right and procrastination, deadlock before we get to sensible cooperation.

 

Your right, I wouldn't do that job for all the tea in China, I should imagine it's a thankless task, like being a football ref or a traffic warden. 

I genuinely don't think most of the politicians know what's coming, the last bit of control the voter has is at the ballot box and I can see the people punishing them with it for their treacherous behaviour. 

[Yellow Bear]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

You have to also spare a thought for the Civil Servants in this process. There are not many of us on this forum that would be prepared to work 12 hour days over the last year or so and give up weekends at short notice without any recompense.

There speaks a civil servant who has never worked in the real world.  Many salaried staff in private industry have been doing this for the past 15 years.

[oowee]

9 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

There speaks a civil servant who has never worked in the real world.  Many salaried staff in private industry have been doing this for the past 15 years.

True and many salried staff in private industry get large rewards and bonus's. My wife works for a private company and I say to her the difference between us is she gives her life for a big pay check and bonus, I gave mine for the benefit of others. 👍

[SpringDon]

51 minutes ago, oowee said:

True and many salried staff in private industry get large rewards and bonus's. My wife works for a private company and I say to her the difference between us is she gives her life for a big pay check and bonus, I gave mine for the benefit of others. 👍

You have given  your life? That’s very noble and explains the miscommunication; it difficult speaking through a medium.

 

Anyway, the stage is set for revocation, which was the the intent of the oligarchs on both sides from the beginning. Any deal is going to be  so weak as to be worse the the current position. Either way, we will remain in the second division of the eu. Thanks for that, remain people.

Edited April 5, 2019 by SpringDon

[oowee]

1 minute ago, SpringDon said:

You have given  your life? That’s very noble and explains the miscommunication; it difficult speaking through a medium.

 

Anyway, the stage is set for revocation, which was the the intent of the oligarchs on both sides from the beginning. Any deal is going to be  so weak as to be worse the the current position. Either way, we will remain in the second division of the eu. Thanks for that, remain people.

 What? We were happy in the EU. If the result is anything less than we had the blame lies at the door of the Tories and those that bought into the dream of unicorns. Still they knew what they were voting for.

There is time, we have not left yet. Small steps. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Talking to a couple of friends that have been dragged in from energy to trade that have worked best part of 55 hours a week for last three weeks.

Thats terrible 😂

I do 10 hours every day , 6 days a week, no pension, no holidays, for the last 20 years.
The ex works for the post office, so a civil servant, salaried at 25k , contracted to work 45 hrs pw, but expected (in the contract) to do an extra 10 hrs when required unpaid , so like , all the time then.

Those ordinary people , that didnt know what they were voting for, do these hours as a matter of course.
55 hours is just a normal week to these people.

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

What? We were happy in the EU.

No, you were happy in the EU , because it suited you.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Thats terrible 😂

I do 10 hours every day , 6 days a week, no pension, no holidays, for the last 20 years.
The ex works for the post office, so a civil servant, salaried at 25k , contracted to work 45 hrs pw, but expected (in the contract) to do an extra 10 hrs when required unpaid , so like , all the time then.

Those ordinary people , that didnt know what they were voting for, do these hours as a matter of course.
55 hours is just a normal week to these people.

Which is laudable but you do it for yourself. A Civil servant often does it for others 👍 You can look forward to the flash house and motor and selling the business to retire in luxury. 

I love it when I go around some of the cities I worked with and can point to offices, factories or companies and say I did that. Even now I can pop into places sit down with the CEO and talk about how things are going. I am still hoping my liver and pancreas can slowly recover from the years of abuse that came with the job. Good times but very stressful. 🙂

[SpringDon]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

 What? We were happy in the EU. If the result is anything less than we had the blame lies at the door of the Tories and those that bought into the dream of unicorns. Still they knew what they were voting for.

There is time, we have not left yet. Small steps. 

This is where we disagree. We were neither happy or fully in the eu. The last (ongoing) financial hiccup proved that political union must be combined with fiscal alignment. We are on the fringes of one and completely outside the other. Actually, I’m game, after all in for a penny, in for a Euro.

Oh hang on, just remembered; you didn’t know what you were voting for, did you?

[oowee]

1 minute ago, SpringDon said:

This is where we disagree. We were neither happy or fully in the eu. The last (ongoing) financial hiccup proved that political union must be combined with fiscal alignment. We are on the fringes of one and completely outside the other. Actually, I’m game, after all in for a penny, in for a Euro.

Oh hang on, just remembered; you didn’t know what you were voting for, did you?

Leavers may not have been happy (preesumably so) that's why they voted for leave. The rest of us just wanted to stay as we were, we did not vote for anything. 

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

The NHS had better be ready for an increase in patients with blood pressure and heart problems.

Care to elaborate?

[Medic1281]

Just now, Newbie to this said:

Care to elaborate?

By irate brexiteers that have been betrayed by the government 

[Eyefor]

1 hour ago, mick miller said:

Who was it that said 'it doesn't matter whom you vote for, the establishment always get in'? 

My wife's Grandad....(Peterborough bred and born. Furthest ever travelled in 89 years - Hunstanton. Official head mason & stained glass window restorer / repairer to Peterborough Cathedral. Died 1980).

"Don't matter who you vote for boy, the Government always gets in".

[Rewulf]

21 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Care to elaborate?

Hes having a dig at 'gammons'
 

[Newbie to this]

21 minutes ago, Medic1281 said:

By irate brexiteers that have been betrayed by the government 

 

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Hes having a dig at 'gammons'
 

Yeah I get that, it's just a way I suppose, of saying all leavers are old with high blood pressure and heart problems. Just another false generalisation in my opinion.

Wanted Henry to elaborate on his statement, as my assumption may be completely off the mark.

[Rewulf]

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

Leavers may not have been happy (preesumably so) that's why they voted for leave. The rest of us just wanted to stay as we were, we did not vote for anything. 

Thats not strictly true though is it ?

The people who voted leave did so because they wanted out the EU , not Norway style , or customs union Mk 2 , OUT.

Plenty of remainers voted their way because they believed the governments fake projections about recession and food/medicine shortages, like the EU would starve us into submission.
A lot of students were told their chances to study abroad were pretty much over if we left.
A huge amount of people based their remain vote on something along the lines of , 'Well I like my holidays in Spain, and if we leave I wont be able to go !'

So, when you look at it, they did vote for something, whether it was fear or potential loss, its just not a 'real' something.

4 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Wanted Henry to elaborate on his statement, as my assumption may be completely off the mark.

He'll probably ignore it TBH.

[Raja Clavata]

14 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

 

Yeah I get that, it's just a way I suppose, of saying all leavers are old with high blood pressure and heart problems. Just another false generalisation in my opinion.

Wanted Henry to elaborate on his statement, as my assumption may be completely off the mark.

I took it as a broad sweeping statement to anyone engaging in discussion or debate without any means of affecting the outcome in the short term. Didn't take it as a dig at anyone in particular.

24 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

The Some people who voted leave did so because they wanted out the EU , not Norway style , or customs union Mk 2 , OUT.

Just returning the favour...

[oowee]

35 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Thats not strictly true though is it ?

The people who voted leave did so because they wanted out the EU , not Norway style , or customs union Mk 2 , OUT.

Plenty of remainers voted their way because they believed the governments fake projections about recession and food/medicine shortages, like the EU would starve us into submission.
A lot of students were told their chances to study abroad were pretty much over if we left.
A huge amount of people based their remain vote on something along the lines of , 'Well I like my holidays in Spain, and if we leave I wont be able to go !'

So, when you look at it, they did vote for something, whether it was fear or potential loss, its just not a 'real' something.

He'll probably ignore it TBH.

No way. There was no credible leave option. Not every leave voter wanted out with no deal indeed most of the MP's that wanted out did not / do not want no deal. The projections are based on canonic assumptions of likely hood. They may or may not be correct but they have some basis of thought pricess. Leave has nothing, there is nothing. There is no logic,no presentation of an idea,there is just ill conceived, ill thought out rhetoric bluster.

I would happily vote leave if there was a credible proposal put on the table. I would happily vote to be in a reformed EU. I would happily vote for a new EU based on co opertaion and trading. None of this was or is an option. It was stay with all of the issues that has or leave for some fantasy.  Fed up of debating this bit. 

 

Did you hear the Nick Bowles resignation set to music on radio 5l ?  Oh Nick. Please don't go! At least he has passion for the job. 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by oowee

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Just returning the favour...

So you know for a fact, that SOME people  voted for a Norway style Brexit?
Or to leave , but to stay in a customs union (not really leaving) ?

Okaay 😄

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Rewulf said:

So you know for a fact, that SOME people  voted for a Norway style Brexit?
Or to leave , but to stay in a customs union (not really leaving) ?

Okaay 😄

I know for a fact that not everybody who voted leave voted for NO DEAL.

[panoma1]

2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I know for a fact that not everybody who voted leave voted for NO DEAL.

No you don't!