yod dropper Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Moggs not daft, theyve got the numbers to trigger it. They just havnt got the numbers to win. To fight another day perhaps ? I suspect some people will not submit or activate their letter as there may not be a need to as the deal may not get through parliament anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said: She had those two advisers who were not Tory party or elected - but (relatively junior) civil servants who she brought with her from the Home Office I believe. They (if the press are to be believed) alienated most of the normal Downing Street staff and seemed to almost control her themselves. It is not clear how they seemed to have so much influence, but what is crystal clear is that it was a bad advice. I think her biggest problem is that she makes poor decisions (based I suspect on poor advice) .......... then can't or won't listen to reason. She can't make a decision and is petrified to take action in anything, hence why she's given everything the EU wanted, she must be one of the worst PMs ever (after Blair anyway), reminds me of a rabbit caught in headlights. 2 hours ago, Newbie to this said: Couldn't agree more, He should have taken us out the day the vote came in. Then started negotiations. Only the spineless remoaner decided to sulk, and came up with the first attepmt to try and undermine the democratic will of the people. Resign and let another remainer plot against democracy! Beat me to it, spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 I see the Spanish are making noises about Gibraltar.....again! Inferring they will veto Brexit unless??? And France want to amend the "deal" too! Unsurprisingly I doubt that any amendments will be to our advantage!.....what next? The republic of Ireland demanding we give them NI or they will veto the "deal" too? Just goes to show that if you show weakness, like May has, the vultures will be queuing up for a piece of us.....and will surely try to drive their perceived advantage home! **** em all! We should just walk away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 Hopefully herding the cats or getting all 27 members to agree may well lead to us just walking away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 Trump, Salisbury, Brexit and now Interpol???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Hopefully herding the cats or getting all 27 members to agree may well lead to us just walking away! Fingers crossed, I saw this "deal" coming when we voted to leave, the EU was never going to willingly let it's golden goose free and our spinless self serving government, bullied by big business was never going to deliver the will of the people, some form of democracy hey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Fingers crossed, I saw this "deal" coming when we voted to leave, the EU was never going to willingly let it's golden goose free and our spinless self serving government, bullied by big business was never going to deliver the will of the people, some form of democracy hey! May well deliver it by default? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, oowee said: May well deliver it by default? I think that is the ONLY way she will deliver anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 Well I say to the EU and the 27, keep on with the land/advantage grab! Kicking the British people when they think we are down and vulnerable and have a growing confidence, they can rape our country further....hopefully the more they demand the more our "backs to the wall" spirit will start to emerge............then they'll probably end up with ........**** all! All we need is the leader/s to galvanise the country!.....where we will find one/them god only knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 Call me cynical, but I think this deal was done & dusted when May visited Merkel & Co a while back. She's put her word on it & now it full steam ahead to get it through.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: Call me cynical, but I think this deal was done & dusted when May visited Merkel & Co a while back. She's put her word on it & now it full steam ahead to get it through.... Well in that case ,she's signing deals parliament, and more importantly, the electorate, won't cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otherwayup Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 I'm not on social media. Any talk of upcoming demonstrations by the people who voted to Leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, otherwayup said: I'm not on social media. Any talk of upcoming demonstrations by the people who voted to Leave? Don't see what people could demonstrate about, as yet everything is still just talk. I'm still hoping May says there is no dealing with this lot and gives them the Churchill fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 15 hours ago, JohnfromUK said: She had those two advisers who were not Tory party or elected - but (relatively junior) civil servants who she brought with her from the Home Office I believe. They (if the press are to be believed) alienated most of the normal Downing Street staff and seemed to almost control her themselves. It is not clear how they seemed to have so much influence, but what is crystal clear is that it was a bad advice. I think her biggest problem is that she makes poor decisions (based I suspect on poor advice) .......... then can't or won't listen to reason. The two advisers were Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill who led the election campaign for her. She has done exactly the same thing over Brexit with Oliie Robbins. She is so afraid of her cabinet colleagues plotting against her behind her back that she shuts them out. Instead she surrounds herself with people on her payroll she feels she can trust. Then she gives them carte blanche it appears.. The only trouble is they are rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Vince Green said: The two advisers were Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill who led the election campaign for her. She has done exactly the same thing over Brexit with Oliie Robbins. She is so afraid of her cabinet colleagues plotting against her behind her back that she shuts them out. Instead she surrounds herself with people on her payroll she feels she can trust. Then she gives them carte blanche it appears.. The only trouble is they are rubbish. Exactly my point: civil servants are there to enact and enable Government policy, as set by the Government through ministerial input, cabinet discussion and passage through Parliament. Ministerial input, cabinet discussion and passage through Parliament are 'party influenced in that the minister and cabinet are from the ruling party, and a majority in parliament is (usually) held by the ruling party. The ruling party is put in place by the electorate - so that in theory - we have democracy. If the unelected civil servants are setting policy, democracy isn't operating correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 11 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said: Call me cynical, but I think this deal was done & dusted when May visited Merkel & Co a while back. She's put her word on it & now it full steam ahead to get it through.... I think your spot on, I thought exactly the same and predicted the moment the referendum result happened we'd never be able to really leave, welcome to the hotel California! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 EU rejects Italian budget , and prepares for sanctions. https://www.thenational.ae/business/economy/european-commission-rejects-italy-s-budget-over-debt-fears-1.794251 Just a trade organisation they said.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Rewulf said: EU rejects Italian budget , and prepares for sanctions. https://www.thenational.ae/business/economy/european-commission-rejects-italy-s-budget-over-debt-fears-1.794251 Just a trade organisation they said.. The thing is, and this is what everybody should reflect on, is that there has never been even a token attempt from the EU to help Italy in its time of need. Despite the fact that most of the problems were brought on by the inflexiblity of the Euro. The same is true of Greece, Spain and Portugal People like Ken Clarke talk about "our friends in Europe" but there is no friendship and no element of partnership. Any country that falters, the rest turn on it like the pack of wolves. With friends like that you really don't need enemies. You don't even have to scratch the surface before the true nature of the EU becomes apparent, . Do we really want to end up like Italy a few years ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 21, 2018 Report Share Posted November 21, 2018 I just hope we're as far away from the sinking EU ship as possible when it goes down, so it doesn't drag us with it, but I won't hold my breath, to many remaniacs in positions of power for the plebs to be allowed to exercise democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 22, 2018 Report Share Posted November 22, 2018 The Euro has many trading advantages which significantly boost trade volume and efficiency through its value transparency. The countries using the Euro lack the conventional economic controls to adjust the performance of the economy that are possible with there own currency. So far those at the margins have been unable to achieve the levels of prosperity of those at the centre (Germany). In turn Germany performs far better economically than it would with its own currency as it does not see a rise in currency value that it would get on it's own. The next step must be more centralised budgetary controls, a Europe wide budget and redistribution of 'profits' between countries. The tables will turn with expenditure being set based on need and redistribution of wealth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 22, 2018 Report Share Posted November 22, 2018 Even the guardian appears to have come to its senses in this article, recognising the EU zone is poorly performing and a hard Breixt could be a very positive result for the UK. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/22/respect-eu-britain-outside-left-economy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besty57 Posted November 22, 2018 Report Share Posted November 22, 2018 1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said: Even the guardian appears to have come to its senses in this article, recognising the EU zone is poorly performing and a hard Breixt could be a very positive result for the UK. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/22/respect-eu-britain-outside-left-economy Yes as he says,it's all about what Germany wants,and stuff anyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted November 22, 2018 Report Share Posted November 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, besty57 said: Yes as he says,it's all about what Germany wants,and stuff anyone else The EU always has been - and the Germans have allowed the French (but generally no one else) to bend the rules to suit themselves as they wanted. Germany has always needed more of everything ..... space, markets, workforce etc., which is why it has always been expansionist. The EU has been a peaceful way for Germany to achieve its ambitions to 'dominate'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 22, 2018 Report Share Posted November 22, 2018 1 hour ago, oowee said: The Euro has many trading advantages which significantly boost trade volume and efficiency through its value transparency. The countries using the Euro lack the conventional economic controls to adjust the performance of the economy that are possible with there own currency. The Euro works best for Germany and France, is there even an argument about that ? Other countries, Italy , Greece, Portugal and Spain, have suffered economically due to its implementation, is there an argument about that ? Austerity and massive unemployment have been the results of this. 1 hour ago, oowee said: So far those at the margins have been unable to achieve the levels of prosperity of those at the centre (Germany). In turn Germany performs far better economically than it would with its own currency as it does not see a rise in currency value that it would get on it's own. Italy is the 4th largest net contributor to the EU budget, putting only slightly less in than the UK. Would you say they are on the margins ? Germany performs best, with France a close 2nd , because it has designed the EU around its own needs, and its strong manufacturing base. It has stifled other countries manufacturing industries including Italy, Spain and the UK. Do you think this was un intentional ? If we had adopted the Euro back in the 00 s , we would be an economic basket case today. 1 hour ago, oowee said: The next step must be more centralised budgetary controls, a Europe wide budget and redistribution of 'profits' between countries. The tables will turn with expenditure being set based on need and redistribution of wealth? Centralised budgetary controls ? Is that doublespeak for the EU (Germany et al) controlling ALL EU countries spending ? What could possibly go wrong there ? Redistribution of profits ? Please explain that to me. Redistribution of wealth, how is this going to be achieved ? Many countries are heavily indebted to German banks, paying hefty interest. Does this mean interest rates will be relaxed, debts written off, so these countries can use their tax incomes for social good ? I very much doubt it ! The EU has backed many countries up to the economic wall, and left them no where to go except push back. You reap what you sow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted November 22, 2018 Report Share Posted November 22, 2018 2 hours ago, oowee said: The next step must be more centralised budgetary controls, a Europe wide budget and redistribution of 'profits' between countries. The tables will turn with expenditure being set based on need and redistribution of wealth? All sounds rather communist to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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