Are the Brexit party far right?

[henry d]

32 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

Somewhat like a former "National SOCIALIST party" then!

I`m sure I couldn`t comment on the actual party but yes some of their supporters are.

[Vince Green]

9 hours ago, grrclark said:

Would anybody describe the SNP as far right? 

Many of the SNPs  principal figures hail from the loony left so no I wouldn't.

[Danger-Mouse]

On 29/10/2019 at 13:43, Rewulf said:

 

Are the BP nationalistic? 

Are they racist? 

Are they anti semitic? 

Are they anti immigration? 

Do they employ a group to bully and intimidate? 

That rather depends on your definition of "Nationalistic". They're certainly patriotic, they believe in the UK as a strong nation, but nationalistic? That word can have certain unpleasant connotations these days. Sargon did a video on the subject not so long ago.

Racist. No clearly not. They are the most diverse party in UK politics.

I've never heard any accusations of anti-semitism aimed at them. With Farage being a big friend to Trump I can't see it. The US is very pro Israel.

Anti immigration. No, they against uncontrolled immigration.

Again, not that I'm aware of.

[grrclark]

11 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Many of the SNPs  principal figures hail from the loony left so no I wouldn't.

The thing is though Vince they are not really left wing either.  They certainly talk on the left, but their actual policies are very centrist, they are most certainly not socialist.

My favourite question to supporters who talk about the socialist values of the SNP is “what genuinely redistributive policies do the SNP have?”.  The answer is none.

Most don’t understand which means they are not really socialist either, just full of grievance and jealousy.

[Vince Green]

1 minute ago, grrclark said:

The thing is though Vince they are not really left wing either.  They certainly talk on the left, but their actual policies are very centrist, they are most certainly not socialist.

My favourite question to supporters who talk about the socialist values of the SNP is “what genuinely redistributive policies do the SNP have?”.  The answer is none.

Most don’t understand which means they are not really socialist either, just full of grievance and jealousy.

I agree

That goes back to the Orwellian concept of Socialism. My experience of socialism (over decades as a trade unionist) is that most advocates talk of redistribution and "power to the people" but as soon as they get as much as a whif of power they morph into Robert Mugabe.

Most socialists I have encountered seem motivated by hate and envy rather than high ideals and philanthropic motives. The ones that aren't are usually soppy idealists with rose tinted glasses.

That explains my journey to the right  

[Yellow Bear]

28 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I agree

That goes back to the Orwellian concept of Socialism. My experience of socialism (over decades as a trade unionist) is that most advocates talk of redistribution and "power to the people" but as soon as they get as much as a whif of power they morph into Robert Mugabe.

Most socialists I have encountered seem motivated by hate and envy rather than high ideals and philanthropic motives. The ones that aren't are usually soppy idealists with rose tinted glasses.

That explains my journey to the right  

+1- you beat me to it

Edited October 30, 2019 by Yellow Bear

[Scully]

34 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I agree

That goes back to the Orwellian concept of Socialism. My experience of socialism (over decades as a trade unionist) is that most advocates talk of redistribution and "power to the people" but as soon as they get as much as a whif of power they morph into Robert Mugabe.

Most socialists I have encountered seem motivated by hate and envy rather than high ideals and philanthropic motives. The ones that aren't are usually soppy idealists with rose tinted glasses.

That explains my journey to the right  

Good post, and also affirms my ( admittedly limited ) experience of trade unionists. 

[London Best]

In answer to his question, I once told a friend that I considered my politics to be marginally to the right.

He replied, “What, marginally to the right of Attila the Hun?”

I didn’t think I came over as that extreme.

[Retsdon]

On 29/10/2019 at 16:42, Dave-G said:

patriotic enough to not want to surrender our liberty and way of life to a foreign power that isn't even a country.

Can you explain exactly what the EU has to do with the number of Indian and Pakistani immigrants in Leicester?

[Dave-G]

25 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Can you explain exactly what the EU has to do with the number of Indian and Pakistani immigrants in Leicester?

I was commenting that the massive Asian community in my area would be voting for Vasaline so no point in me voting conservative. At least by voting Brexit I register an admittedly tiny but emphatic indication that I want out of the EU - because at the moment that is all the BP are standing on.

I will also have a BREXIT mug on a box in my front window + a LEAVE MEANS LEAVE mug for any unwanted canvassers to see and hopefully foxtrot oscar. And yes, both mugs are printed in upper case. :-)

[Rewulf]

Interesting.. 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/11/04/the-far-right-is-far-from-a-threat/

[udderlyoffroad]

On 30/10/2019 at 19:56, grrclark said:

My favourite question to supporters who talk about the socialist values of the SNP is “what genuinely redistributive policies do the SNP have?”.

Land reform.  Fieldsports Britain did a good piece about it a while back.  Pretty scary, even if you're not a laird.

Some who understand Scottish politics far better than me do make the point that the SNP is a very broad church, and tends to hoover up votes from across the political spectrum, and will shift their policies to suit the area they're canvassing in.  But it seems to me that the Edinburgh elite in the party want Scotland to be a Scandinavian-style social democracy, i.e. eye-watering levels of taxation but the state will provide, from cradle-to-grave.  You'd better do as you're told, however.

 

[grrclark]

12 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Land reform.  Fieldsports Britain did a good piece about it a while back.  Pretty scary, even if you're not a laird.

Some who understand Scottish politics far better than me do make the point that the SNP is a very broad church, and tends to hoover up votes from across the political spectrum, and will shift their policies to suit the area they're canvassing in.  But it seems to me that the Edinburgh elite in the party want Scotland to be a Scandinavian-style social democracy, i.e. eye-watering levels of taxation but the state will provide, from cradle-to-grave.  You'd better do as you're told, however.

 

Significant land reform, as yet, is still just a talking exercise for the SNP although undoubtably there are those in the party ranks that would wish to see it happen.

There are many amongst them who are fervent republicans and have a huge grudge against the titled and with historical wealth and would love to see that stripped away.

The sad fact within Scotland is that far too much of our country is in a very few private hands stemming from centuries of feudalism.  In many cases the use of that land has been exploitative in favour of the land owners, however individual land owners with significant wealth are often far better custodians who can actually make the land work.

It is a complex issue for sure.

[paulnix]

 Brexit party are right of centre just past the Conservatives, Labour are just left of centre but pretending to be farther left to gain the young idealist voters as they already have the old voters because  " my grandfather was working class and voted Labour so I do. "  SNP are pretty much just do anything anti English they can think of and feel very self important, I genuinely would worry if I was a Scot and we left the union as to how things would end up. Lib Dems, who cares to be honest, they seem pretty anti UK at the moment and positioned themselves just to gain remain votes of every other party who at least say they will respect the referendum. 

 I guess the BP are the most patriotic of the main parties and think that we should come first and don't feel ashamed to be British like so many others do, personally I can't see much wrong with being nationalistic as that is why they are elected after all, to look after our ( British citizens ) interested above others.

Edited November 6, 2019 by paulnix

[oowee]

On 30/10/2019 at 19:46, Mr_Nobody said:

That rather depends on your definition of "Nationalistic". They're certainly patriotic, they believe in the UK as a strong nation, but nationalistic? That word can have certain unpleasant connotations these days. Sargon did a video on the subject not so long ago.

 

 

5 minutes ago, paulnix said:

 I guess the BP are the most patriotic of the main parties and think that we should come first and don't feel ashamed to be British like so many others do, personally I can't see much wrong with being nationalistic as that is why they are elected after all, to look after our ( British citizens ) interested above others.

How can the Brexit Party possibly believe in the UK when the process of Brexit questions its very structure? 

If it believes in the UK what is this?

Who is we,  United Kingdom or England? 

Edited November 6, 2019 by oowee

[Rewulf]

14 minutes ago, oowee said:

How can the Brexit Party possibly believe in the UK when the process of Brexit questions its very structure?

And the process of further integration doesn't? 

That's a strange analogy, when Brexit is completely unproven, in that it MIGHT cause Scotland to have another referendum, which MAY or may not be successful. 

Whereas, staying in the EU has been proven to end in loss of sovereignty and independence. 

At least, post brexit, if Scotland CHOOSE to leave, they can. 

Something the Catalans found, is somewhat difficult, when the bloc takes the side of the national government. 

21 minutes ago, oowee said:

What is this? 

Farage, with an 'England' flag, because that's where he's from, most likely pictured on St George day. 

But don't let that get in the way of your argument, that he's not really for the UK. 

24 minutes ago, oowee said:

Who is we,  United Kingdom or England

Where are you? Sol system, Terra, The EU, the UK, England, North Somerset, Casa del oowee? 

Is this some kind of 'nationalist' jibe? 

[oowee]

Another Scottish ref is inevitable at some point but Brexit provides them with evidence that Scotlands views are an inconvenience. The bigger issue is of course NI who are collateral  damage, conveniently cast adrift by English Tories in their rush to appease their Nationalist members. 

 

[Rewulf]

15 minutes ago, oowee said:

Another Scottish ref is inevitable at some point but Brexit provides them with evidence that Scotlands views are an inconvenience. The bigger issue is of course NI who are collateral  damage, conveniently cast adrift by English Tories in their rush to appease their Nationalist members. 

 

There's that dirty 'nationalist' word again... Do we stay in the EU, so we don't upset the Scots nationalists, or the unionist nationalists, what about the Welsh nationalists?

Let the Scots have another referendum, if they want to go, let them. 

NI or Scotland can't have it both ways, the UK is leaving the EU, if the arrangements don't suit, either come up with an alternative, or VOTE to leave the UK. 

Pretty sure that's how it works. 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

There's that dirty 'nationalist' word again... Do we stay in the EU, so we don't upset the Scots nationalists, or the unionist nationalists, what about the Welsh nationalists?

Let the Scots have another referendum, if they want to go, let them. 

NI or Scotland can't have it both ways, the UK is leaving the EU, if the arrangements don't suit, either come up with an alternative, or VOTE to leave the UK. 

Pretty sure that's how it works. 

 

And let the rest of the countries have their say on Scotland going!

[henry d]

14 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And let the rest of the countries have their say on Scotland going!

... just like the EU should have a say on the UK leaving?

[Rewulf]

41 minutes ago, henry d said:

... just like the EU should have a say on the UK leaving?

They've had a pretty good go at stopping us so far! 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, henry d said:

... just like the EU should have a say on the UK leaving?

Yes, except if Scotland are intent to leave I hope we don’t make it as difficult for them, as the EU is for us. 👍

[Danger-Mouse]

7 hours ago, oowee said:

 

How can the Brexit Party possibly believe in the UK when the process of Brexit questions its very structure? 

If it believes in the UK what is this?

Who is we,  United Kingdom or England? 

Just because some of the UK's component states may wish to leave the union, perhaps partially because of Brexit does not discount BP members from believing in the UK. That's a very spurious argument.

Oh look I found a picture of him with a Union flag. As Rewulf said I guess you just found a photo from St Georges day. Even if it isn't what exactly is wrong with being proud of being English? Ask any Scot, N. Irish or welsh person and many, if not all, would say they are proud of their nationality.

[oowee]

 

42 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said:

Just because some of the UK's component states may wish to leave the union, perhaps partially because of Brexit does not discount BP members from believing in the UK. That's a very spurious argument.

We are not talking about 'wanting to leave the Union' in the case of Ni we are talking about England annexing it from the Union.  Its hardly the act of someone putting the Union at the heart of negotiations. 

Brexit is clearly divisive for the Union particularly in the format proposed by the Brexit party. Brexit light would be a viable and then more Union friendly.  Which is fulfilling the ref. 

[grrclark]

7 hours ago, oowee said:

Another Scottish ref is inevitable at some point but Brexit provides them with evidence that Scotlands views are an inconvenience. The bigger issue is of course NI who are collateral  damage, conveniently cast adrift by English Tories in their rush to appease their Nationalist members. 

 

I don't believe another Scottish referendum is inevitable.  There is huge agitation for one by a very vocal minority, but that's all.

The language of Sturgeon "...if the SNP win this election..." then it mandates another referendum.  How do the SNP win?  The most returned MPs, even if that was with 30% of the vote share?  Her language is divisive and disingenuous.

The reason the SNP are trying to use a GE to agitate for another ref' is because they are highly unlikely to return a majority in the next Scottish elections in 2021, they are already a minority party with less than half the voter share.  That is why Sturgeon is pushing for 2020, besides that she is also losing popularity amongst the faithful and is trying to feed them some raw meat.

On top of that why should the SNP have a disproportionate say around the Brexit debate just because that voter franchise was remain?  The SNP stoke the grievance that Scotland's views are an inconvenience, that is not the general belief.