Extreme pheasant shooting

[button]

7 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

how many do you need to shoot before you can take on the 80 yarders??

Don't know? You?

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, button said:

Don't know? You?

Yes you just dont do it full stop, its nothing to do with gun handling its not even got past first base and its out. Get it to first base lets see some patterns as the old saying goes this is worthless without pictures, we need pictures not slightly related videos or unsubstantiated claims Facts are what we need..

[button]

8 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Yes you just dont do it full stop, its nothing to do with gun handling its not even got past first base and its out. Get it to first base lets see some patterns as the old saying goes this is worthless without pictures, we need pictures not slightly related videos or unsubstantiated claims Facts are what we need..

Hull not come back to you as yet?

 

[motty]

38 minutes ago, button said:

You say 000's how many you talking 1,2,3, 10?

Usually 2500 - 3500.

[lancer425]

18 minutes ago, button said:

Hull not come back to you as yet?

 

They will WANT TO SEE THESE 80 yard  Patterns before they can comment.

[Stonepark]

Pheasant Extreme 34g Fibre no4

In case, both case and primer look standard

35. 04g of 179 pellets (140 pellets per oz - no3) hardish but still compressable with mini pliers

1.77g or 27.3gr pink flake powder 2mm square looks like Maxam psb2

4mm opc standard

14mm diana type fibre wad standard

So far nothing spectacular to see

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Stonepark

[lancer425]

31 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Pheasant Extreme 34g Fibre no4

In case, both case and primer look standard

35. 04g of 179 pellets (140 pellets per oz - no3) hardish but still compressable with mini pliers

1.77g or 27.3gr pink flake powder 2mm square looks like Maxam psb2

4mm opc standard

14mm diana type fibre wad standard

So far nothing spectacular to see

 

 

 

At last a good start, at least now we know what we are dealing with.

[figgy]

Stonepark that can't be true as we been told by Hull marketing these are the premier cartridge.

Bet people reloading could make a cracking long range patterning cartridge. But would it have enough retained energy to kill.

[andrewluke]

10 minutes ago, figgy said:

Stonepark that can't be true as we been told by Hull marketing these are the premier cartridge.

Bet people reloading could make a cracking long range patterning cartridge. But would it have enough retained energy to kill.

you need long brass(steel),long brass=long range

[Stonepark]

7 minutes ago, figgy said:

Stonepark that can't be true as we been told by Hull marketing these are the premier cartridge.

The only thing extreme about these is the over size shot, a full size bigger and perhaps 5%Sb, rather than the normal 3% but Hulls reluctance to state this suggests it might still be 3% and relying on larger pellet to resist deformation.

[figgy]

Long brass is the key, shiny and red plastic cases, red is faster.

So long as the components are perfected to give the desired pattern and hitting power they done their job. 

If the pellets are a size bigger your getting less in the pattern.

Edited November 21, 2019 by figgy

[Stonepark]

7 minutes ago, figgy said:

Long brass is the key, shiny and red plastic cases, red is faster.

So long as the components are perfected to give the desired pattern and hitting power they done their job. 

If the pellets are a size bigger your getting less in the pattern.

Best case scenario at 60yards has 55 pellets in 30 inch circle if going by traditional calculations, well short of a reliable pattern for pheasants.

[lancer425]

This is where heavier than lead comes in to play, but this is about these guys cleanly killing at 80 yards . With basically what stone park has cut up above. speed ! what 1200/ 1250FPs region.

[lancer425]

A thought on a lead load, how about winchester 3.5 inch supreme turkey in USA 6s thats like a uk5 ish. 2 1/4 oz copper plated shot buffer & Wrapper real wadding and nice progressive 571/ hs7  powder. 500 pellets or slightly over i think.  this in a 3.5 inch gun with a terror 655 or a jebs high voltage we might be a bit better off, but i still think it would look like decidedly insipid at 80  yards.

But i will say one thing for that load it will recoil and might knock some sense into these chaps.

[motty]

As expected - a cartridge is a cartridge is a cartridge!

 

[figgy]

No doubt there will be cartridges capable at 80 yards, it's whether you'd want to shoot lots of them. 31/2" of 60 plus gram is going to thump.

[Old farrier]

7 hours ago, figgy said:

No doubt there will be cartridges capable at 80 yards, it's whether you'd want to shoot lots of them. 31/2" of 60 plus gram is going to thump.

Cheddite already make them 

the 60 meter and the 100 meter 

[Hamster]

That looks very advanced, waaaaaay different to anything I’ve cut open back in the day.🤐😏

 

[dipper]

Chaddite  100 meters been on here before.When it was tested at 100 meters it never opened up ..The old wire cartridges of long ago would hold together for so many meters then start to spread. There were 3 different ones that opened up at different ranges.They needed cylinder barrels.Would be quite possible to make something like that today.But the chaddite  is of no use.

[lancer425]

The chedite 100metori cartridges are just a shrouded load they just put an LBC wad backwards over the load, this effectively gives you a slug up to about 80 yards then it sometimes falls away and deploys the shot.

pointless at any normal range and unreliable at 100 yard.

This video shows them on a good day. Playing with them and this idea cfor Fox with sighted shotgun i never got reliability or felt they were safe enough to conceder any way practical. this bloke sort of shows what happens ish but too risky and not effective close range and in use unreliable. Basicaly impractical in my opinion.

Really to get a load to 80 yards you need HW shot or TSS and then at least you will have a chance. But by the time you get it here  yourself its currently £60.45 a kilo loads 35 gram would work out at 2.25 for shot alone per round. so 20/25p for powder  10/15p for a case wad around 5p so with primers how ever you source them your not far off £715 a flat of 250.  any commercial firm over here would want a £1000 a flat i believe.

Would these reliably kill at 80 yards most probably but Why would you want to.?

 

[wymberley]

11 hours ago, lancer425 said:

This is where heavier than lead comes in to play, but this is about these guys cleanly killing at 80 yards . With basically what stone park has cut up above. speed ! what 1200/ 1250FPs region.

To be fair, what Hull tell you is usually right. The problem is that you have to search for it. Also, what they don't tell you is annoying.

They don't say, but I believe that their velocity figures are given as they're supposed to be - V2.5. We won't ask what was wrong with observed velocity. If the 2.5 is correct, then my programme agrees with their published figures. Even then, they don't make it easy - deliberately1?

At 80 yards their figures are 149.7 m/sec and 1.45 ftlbs. Why muddle things up? You could, I suppose, say that the 1.45 is getting marginal but something is amiss. as I calculate (using the correct 450436) it as a more useful 1.68. However, it all remains academic as we still don't have a pattern.

Nor come to think of it, has Button  come back with his definition of maximum range.

[button]

14 minutes ago, wymberley said:

To be fair, what Hull tell you is usually right. The problem is that you have to search for it. Also, what they don't tell you is annoying.

They don't say, but I believe that their velocity figures are given as they're supposed to be - V2.5. We won't ask what was wrong with observed velocity. If the 2.5 is correct, then my programme agrees with their published figures. Even then, they don't make it easy - deliberately1?

At 80 yards their figures are 149.7 m/sec and 1.45 ftlbs. Why muddle things up? You could, I suppose, say that the 1.45 is getting marginal but something is amiss. as I calculate (using the correct 450436) it as a more useful 1.68. However, it all remains academic as we still don't have a pattern.

Nor come to think of it, has Button  come back with his definition of maximum range.

Simple, maximum range is where the one pulling the trigger is confident of a clean kill, obviously vary gun to gun wouldn't call it rocket science, don't even have to waste my time dissecting cartridges and counting the pellets thus allowing more time to practice and honing skill 

Have a good day 

ATB

B

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, wymberley said:

To be fair, what Hull tell you is usually right. The problem is that you have to search for it. Also, what they don't tell you is annoying.

They don't say, but I believe that their velocity figures are given as they're supposed to be - V2.5. We won't ask what was wrong with observed velocity. If the 2.5 is correct, then my programme agrees with their published figures. Even then, they don't make it easy - deliberately1?

At 80 yards their figures are 149.7 m/sec and 1.45 ftlbs. Why muddle things up? You could, I suppose, say that the 1.45 is getting marginal but something is amiss. as I calculate (using the correct 450436) it as a more useful 1.68. However, it all remains academic as we still don't have a pattern.

Nor come to think of it, has Button  come back with his definition of maximum range.

Well agree but do we need a pattern to know its not going to cut it .

No! we dont its just as was said early on crude i agree but WILLY WAVING. no science no consideration no heart.

I dont care if its Mick from sidcup or fred from frodsham or Digweed from diggweed town. 80 yards should never be on the sportsmans menu full stop nothing to do with ability we need the science first if we are going to be true sportsman about this.

60 yard ok practical with some work, but past that and it it has a pulse we should draw the line.  The big loads big guns and heavy shot ideas should be accademic, TSS is used to improve efficiency in a smaller guns say not to necessarily to  look at extending range.

Like if your looking at a ten its more a hassle packing out the Heavyweight and they are capable of typical maximum ranges on steel or lead when legal.

If it were a tenner a kilo i would run it all the time but its not so its all about your need. I need it in 20 bore and normal magnum 12s where i would typicaly use steel. but want a little more lethality and a tad more range, but to push the max range out further is not what i think these hw shot options are about myself.

 

[Blackpowder]

That is very informative, I do think it could be dangerous  tin hats for the beaters.

Blackpowder

 

[lancer425]

Just now, button said:

Simple, maximum range is where the one pulling the trigger is confident of a clean kill, obviously vary gun to gun wouldn't call it rocket science, don't even have to waste my time dissecting cartridges and counting the pellets thus allowing more time to practice and honing skill 

Have a good day 

ATB

B

Well thats as clear as mud, nothing new there then.

If you would excuse me but i would just like to point out that your versions of reality base way to much emphasis on the individuals ability, and ignore yes ignore the science completely. Why do i say that?

  Because we got no patterns thats why! the whole world uses patterns as a way of evaluating a shotguns capability /efficiencey. But not you chaps you arer UNBELIEVABLE!.

 Cartridges are not special gun is a gun it needs to fit thats it multi chokes ok but your not telling us anything there. and loads need development anyway especially for the ranges you are talking to stand an earthly.

None of its adding up at all. And anecdotal chit chat about what might get this job done is all well and good but destracting us from the real task. HOW CAN THESE BIRDS BE RELIABLY KILLED AT 80 YARDS WITH THESE LOADS?

We need to see evidence real patterns or its just HOT AIR on the high shooters part. I think as i said before. These claims are born out of  poor real world range estimation a bit of peer pressure and clique acceptance tof these type of shots that would never be accepted in other sports like say wildfowling.