Social change

[stuartyboy]

Just curious about what social changes we will see after this pandemic? After WW1 there where widespread reforms to education, health, women rights etc. Same as after WW2, changes came about including welfare issues.

Now I'm not comparing what we are going through just now to either of the wars, but my point is that after a global emergency of such magnitude, people change long held views, governments change policies etc.

I'm thinking we will see a much reduced desire for immigration with increasing restrictions on the free movement of people.

On a more local level, more people holidaying in their own country. Less desire for big, expensive outlays that can be affected such as foreign holidays and big weddings.

An increase in spending on fairly small amounts such as eating out, entertainment, clothes etc but a reduced desire for long term expensive but unneeded requirements such as top of the range cars etc?

[jpigeon3]

I wonder what the governments will do regarding restrictions of liberties.

Terms like non-essential journies, and only buying necessities may become more normal.

Theres moting like a crisis to gain full control.

[Jaymo]

I think people have short memories and will return to their same habits?

What I would like to see is the compassion and neighbourhood spirit, to continue and supporting of elderly neighbours too

 

[mel b3]

7 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

Just curious about what social changes we will see after this pandemic? After WW1 there where widespread reforms to education, health, women rights etc. Same as after WW2, changes came about including welfare issues.

Now I'm not comparing what we are going through just now to either of the wars, but my point is that after a global emergency of such magnitude, people change long held views, governments change policies etc.

I'm thinking we will see a much reduced desire for immigration with increasing restrictions on the free movement of people.

On a more local level, more people holidaying in their own country. Less desire for big, expensive outlays that can be affected such as foreign holidays and big weddings.

An increase in spending on fairly small amounts such as eating out, entertainment, clothes etc but a reduced desire for long term expensive but unneeded requirements such as top of the range cars etc?

i think youre right . i also think that the nhs will be getting a very good looking at , and massive investment.

[Raja Clavata]

Good post.

Drastic reduction in business travel

Lots more focus on working from home for those that can

End of budget airlines and a significant increase in the cost of flights

Mobility - there's a lot of people with motors sat on their drive on a lease scheme at £500+ a pop per month which can only be used to drive to the supermarket and back at present - that might accelerate the adoption of Mobility as a Service and significantly reduce the number of personally owned vehicles - this was coming anyway. Mass transportation is going to be interesting if we need to continue to focus on social distancing.

Overall a localisation of numerous aspects of life - including leisure, food etc

Regarding governments, trade, international relations and the like - I think it's too early to say

On the negative side, we now have a clear template on how malicious actors could wreak havoc on a global scale - that has to be a worry.

Lots more - I'll follow this thread and look forward to other contributions...

[Farmboy91]

 

16 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

Just curious about what social changes we will see after this pandemic? After WW1 there where widespread reforms to education, health, women rights etc. Same as after WW2, changes came about including welfare issues.

Now I'm not comparing what we are going through just now to either of the wars, but my point is that after a global emergency of such magnitude, people change long held views, governments change policies etc.

I'm thinking we will see a much reduced desire for immigration with increasing restrictions on the free movement of people.

On a more local level, more people holidaying in their own country. Less desire for big, expensive outlays that can be affected such as foreign holidays and big weddings.

An increase in spending on fairly small amounts such as eating out, entertainment, clothes etc but a reduced desire for long term expensive but unneeded requirements such as top of the range cars etc?

I do believe long term the UK will benefit socially and financially by what you've outlined in your last 3 paragraphs. 

It would be nice to see food production stepped up and our farmers supported to do so, so we can shake some of our reliance on important.

Who knows, in a generation people might look back and think this whole thing was the kick up the backside needed to sort plenty of countries out, not just our own.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Farmboy91

[Raja Clavata]

2 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

I think people have short memories and will return to their same habits?

What I would like to see is the compassion and neighbourhood spirit, to continue and supporting of elderly neighbours too

 

I agree about short memories but suspect that mainly applies if we experience a short sharp fallout on this, if the restrictions continue and the current way of life becomes the norm then it could be different. Generally we are a very adaptable lot.

[AVB]

41 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

Just curious about what social changes we will see after this pandemic? After WW1 there where widespread reforms to education, health, women rights etc. Same as after WW2, changes came about including welfare issues.

Now I'm not comparing what we are going through just now to either of the wars, but my point is that after a global emergency of such magnitude, people change long held views, governments change policies etc.

I'm thinking we will see a much reduced desire for immigration with increasing restrictions on the free movement of people.

On a more local level, more people holidaying in their own country. Less desire for big, expensive outlays that can be affected such as foreign holidays and big weddings.

An increase in spending on fairly small amounts such as eating out, entertainment, clothes etc but a reduced desire for long term expensive but unneeded requirements such as top of the range cars etc?

It’s an interesting question. Personally I think there will be a big reduction in spending because we won’t have any money. This has a knock on effect everywhere as the money you don’t spend means somebody else isn’t receiving the benefit of that money. It’s why I think we are in for a global depression and mass unemployment (10-12 million in the U.K.) which will kill far more people than the virus itself. Whether that will result in a change in peoples’ behaviour and make them more caring I doubt it as people will be too focused on surviving themselves.   

I do believe they the cure has become more dangerous than the virus. 

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, stuartyboy said:

Just curious about what social changes we will see after this pandemic? After WW1 there where widespread reforms to education, health, women rights etc. Same as after WW2, changes came about including welfare issues.

Now I'm not comparing what we are going through just now to either of the wars, but my point is that after a global emergency of such magnitude, people change long held views, governments change policies etc.

I'm thinking we will see a much reduced desire for immigration with increasing restrictions on the free movement of people.

On a more local level, more people holidaying in their own country. Less desire for big, expensive outlays that can be affected such as foreign holidays and big weddings.

An increase in spending on fairly small amounts such as eating out, entertainment, clothes etc but a reduced desire for long term expensive but unneeded requirements such as top of the range cars etc?

 

1 hour ago, mel b3 said:

i think youre right . i also think that the nhs will be getting a very good looking at , and massive investment.

I hope you two are right

38 minutes ago, AVB said:

It’s an interesting question. Personally I think there will be a big reduction in spending because we won’t have any money. This has a knock on effect everywhere as the money you don’t spend means somebody else isn’t receiving the benefit of that money. It’s why I think we are in for a global depression and mass unemployment (10-12 million in the U.K.) which will kill far more people than the virus itself. Whether that will result in a change in peoples’ behaviour and make them more caring I doubt it as people will be too focused on surviving themselves.   

I do believe they the cure has become more dangerous than the virus. 

And I really hope you are wrong.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Newbie to this

[panoma1]

I think the politicians will finally realise how much our NHS means to everyone in the UK, and woe betide any future government who is not seen by the electorate, to be backing, financing, supporting and valuing it!

I can’t get my head around how, after years of austerity, food banks, cuts to the NHS, homelessness, police and other emergency and public service.....the government can suddenly find countless billions of £ to pump into the UK economy to financially support it’s people, businesses etc, etc? Will the public ever again believe politicians, when they wring their hands, cry crocodile tears and tell us “we can’t afford it” 

Edited March 27, 2020 by panoma1

[Newbie to this]

4 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I think the politicians will finally realise how much our NHS means to everyone in the UK, and woe betide any future government who is not seen by the electorate, to be backing, financing, supporting and valuing it!

I can’t get my head around how, after years of austerity, food banks, cuts to the NHS, homelessness, police and other emergency and public service.....the government can suddenly find countless billions of £ to pump into the UK economy to financially support it’s people, businesses etc, etc? Will the public ever again believe politicians, when they wring their hands, cry crocodile tears and tell us “we can’t afford it” 

But the sad fact is, we cannot afford it.

It's going to cost the TAX payer a fortune, for many years to come.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Newbie to this

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Good post.

Drastic reduction in business travel

Lots more focus on working from home for those that can

End of budget airlines and a significant increase in the cost of flights

Mobility - there's a lot of people with motors sat on their drive on a lease scheme at £500+ a pop per month which can only be used to drive to the supermarket and back at present - that might accelerate the adoption of Mobility as a Service and significantly reduce the number of personally owned vehicles - this was coming anyway. Mass transportation is going to be interesting if we need to continue to focus on social distancing.

Overall a localisation of numerous aspects of life - including leisure, food etc

Regarding governments, trade, international relations and the like - I think it's too early to say

On the negative side, we now have a clear template on how malicious actors could wreak havoc on a global scale - that has to be a worry.

Lots more - I'll follow this thread and look forward to other contributions...

That is a good start, but as you say there will be lots more.

[panoma1]

Just now, Newbie to this said:

But the sad fact is we cannot afford it.

It's going to cost the TAX payer a fortune for many years to come.

I didn’t say the country could afford it....I was implying, they could find the money “if they chose to”

[fatchap]

I think its safe to say if its not already started, we will be in the midst of a global recession after this

[Mice!]

26 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I didn’t say the country could afford it....I was implying, they could find the money “if they chose to”

Didn't labour always find the money,  then leave things a mess when voted out?

1 hour ago, Jaymo said:

I think people have short memories and will return to their same habits?

What I would like to see is the compassion and neighbourhood spirit, to continue and supporting of elderly neighbours too

 

I would say this will happen,  but that's if this lockdown goes for a few weeks, if it goes for a few months then I think things will get messy.

[udderlyoffroad]

27 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I think the politicians will finally realise how much our NHS means to everyone in the UK, and woe betide any future government who is not seen by the electorate, to be backing, financing, supporting and valuing it!

The NHS' problem is not lack of money.

I do wonder if the silver lining to the cloud that is this virus could be we that finally can have an adult discussion in this country about the way we provide healthcare. 

 

[Newbie to this]

34 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I didn’t say the country could afford it....I was implying, they could find the money “if they chose to”

Borrowing is not the solution to getting out of debt.

This will hit the tax payer hard for many years. 

[Demonic69]

7 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

The NHS' problem is not lack of money.

I do wonder if the silver lining to the cloud that is this virus could be we that finally can have an adult discussion in this country about the way we provide healthcare. 

 

I don't expect so. With the rabid terror shown by the majority of the UK population, I think actually fixing the NHS' inefficiencies is even further off the table now. I expect the next chant, after "LOCKDOWN" and "Stay Home, Stay Safe" will be something about throwing money at the NHS and expecting it to improve.

[panoma1]

19 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Didn't labour always find the money,  then leave things a mess when voted out?

 

I wasn’t really pointing the finger at any one political party, but at all politicians from whatever party!........When a politician tells you “we can’t afford it” they are lying!.........They have (or can find) the money..........but choose to spend it on something else!

Edited March 27, 2020 by panoma1

[Mice!]

Just now, panoma1 said:

I wasn’t really pointing the finger at any one political party, but at all politicians from whatever party!........When a politician tells you “we can’t afford it” they are lying!.........They have the money..........but choose to spend it on something else!

I thought politicians were lying whenever their lips moved 😁

[Newbie to this]

4 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I wasn’t really pointing the finger at any one political party, but at all politicians from whatever party!........When a politician tells you “we can’t afford it” they are lying!.........They have the money..........but choose to spend it on something else!

Really?

https://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk

We are masquerading as a rich nation. We quite simply are not. I wouldn't be surprised if this crisis adds another Trillion or two to our alredy insurmountable debt!

Edited March 27, 2020 by Newbie to this

[panoma1]

8 minutes ago, Demonic69 said:

I don't expect so. With the rabid terror shown by the majority of the UK population, I think actually fixing the NHS' inefficiencies is even further off the table now. I expect the next chant, after "LOCKDOWN" and "Stay Home, Stay Safe" will be something about throwing money at the NHS and expecting it to improve.

Fixing waste and inefficiencies is another matter, that is a local/group hospital management job! That managers don’t appear able to do ?

[panoma1]

3 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Really?

https://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk

We are masquerading as a rich nation. We quite simply are not. I wouldn't be surprised if this crisis adds another Trillion or two to our alredy insurmountable debt!

Yes really! They can find the money for their own pet infrastructure projects, or there own expenses and allowances, but they can’t fund food banks! Or Hospices! Or Air ambulances etc etc etc.

[Demonic69]

5 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Fixing waste and inefficiencies is another matter, that is a local/group hospital management job! That managers don’t appear able to do ?

It's more waste in purchasing, strategy, staffing etc that I worry about. Too many managers, poor purchasing decisions, waste of IT infrastructure, GPs skimming off the top and poor implementation of cost-saving projects are a few issues. Many could/should be tackled locally, but when hospitals, surgeries, PCTs etc are run by those at the trough, they're never going to cut their own purse strings. We need a proper top-down review of spending, with strict guidelines in place to stop those who would from taking advantage of the lack of oversight

[Newbie to this]

12 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Yes really! They can find the money for their own pet infrastructure projects, or there own expenses and allowances, but they can’t fund food banks! Or Hospices! Or Air ambulances etc etc etc.

Yes, Pigs at a trough, only, the pigs are in charge of borrowing to keep it full.

But don't kid yourself into thinking the Country has any money. And this crisis is making the whole situation even worse.

We will be borrowing Billions if not Trillions to get through this, with absolutely zero revenue coming in. That's why they have tried to keep industry going through this.

When we are funding everyone to sit at home, no one is paying Tax. So the ammount we are giving out also has a loss of tax revenue to be added to it.

This will be felt for many many years.

In my opinion the Government have approached the situation completely wrong.

They should have declared a national emergency and re-nationalised all the energy companies telling the companies sorry no compensation yet, maybe in the future. And then cancelled everyones bills for the foreseeable future, then people only need worry about feeding themselves. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Newbie to this