Call me sceptical but !!!

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, i wish people would stop referring to senior citizens as OLD FOLK !!!!!!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, i wish people would stop referring to senior citizens as OLD FOLK !!!!!!

Yes forgetting to use the prefix "very" is so rude.

[Walker570]

Yep, common sense is not very common for sure.

on edit.....  some of us are getting very old but still get our backsides moving in a morning a damn sight faster than some mid lifers and life is short and so valuable I don't wish to sit around twiddling my thumbs at the Governments request.  I remind everyone that we did not have this problem with swine flue back in 1968 when many more died.     

Edited May 6, 2020 by Walker570

[JDog]

Norfolk wildflower (sic), give up whilst you are behind.

We would be better entertained by reading of some of your wildfowling adventures rather than your labour supporting, conservative hating, anti Brexit slant and rant on the current unpleasant covid 19 situation.

[Mice!]

On the Northwest news last night they were showing hubs around Manchester that were delivering ppe to people and care homes who couldn't get it from their Normal providers, this ppe had been sourced from all over the world they said, even Wuhan believe it or not.

17 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

remind everyone that we did not have this problem with swine flue back in 1968 when many more died.     

I wasn't born then Nev, but maybe the reason many more died was because they didn't do what's being done now? Times are obviously very different now as well compared to 1968, not all for the better.

[hodge911]

So according to news this morning we now have highest deaths in Europe ... one of the top scientific advisors resigned for allowing his lover to visit therefore ignoring the rules that he had the government enforce... and so on 

[Mice!]

3 minutes ago, hodge911 said:

So according to news this morning we now have highest deaths in Europe ... one of the top scientific advisors resigned for allowing his lover to visit therefore ignoring the rules that he had the government enforce... and so on 

Highest reported number of deaths,  but for instance we have a larger population than Italy, what is the per 100,000 or however it is measured?

[SpringDon]

9 hours ago, Norfolk wildfowler said:

What I did not realise the EU scheme did not need to import from abroad and was able to get their needs internally though they thought they were going to have to import from outside the EU , but internal demand was not as high as expected.

 

Pre the virus outbreak. World PPE production.

 

EU 25.95%USA 18.30%China 7.72%Row 48.03%

Source: World Bank WITS and Bruegel’s own calculations.

 

That’s why the scheme never got going , but instead of scouring the world markets the UK could have shared in the excess they were producing.

The timeline of the episode shows how the government handled the situation:.

<snip>

Am I to take from this that the eu produces all the ppe it needs and still has a surplus, even in the midst of a pandemic?

And they are not willing to sell this surplus to any country outside the eu?

That seems highly implausible. As does the idea that there would be no shortage had the uk joined the scheme. There is a worldwide shortage and no amount of made up facts can fix that.

[JohnfromUK]

9 minutes ago, hodge911 said:

So according to news this morning we now have highest deaths in Europe ... one of the top scientific advisors resigned for allowing his lover to visit therefore ignoring the rules that he had the government enforce... and so on 

As one of the biggest stopping off/transfer points on travel in the world, and with an elderly population which is in places densely packed - it was never going to be easy ..... but you cannot simply just close all airports leaving people stranded both 'in' and 'out'.  From the various analyses of the strains and mutations of this virus, it seems that the majority of UK cases came from people returning and visiting from Europe, not China and the Far East, and we hear that the virus may have been established much earlier than previously thought (case in France 'confirmed' in December - and Sweden's government advisers suggesting they probably had cases as early as November.  At present we don't seem to know when it started and when it first reached Europe ......... but it may have been well pre Christmas.

As to the top adviser, he was simply 'stupid' in his behaviour.  It is a non political issue and as far as I know he has kept any politics he may have to himself, so his resignation should also be a 'non political' issue.   He made a bad judgement and it was the wrong message to send - and he has paid the price.  In fact it is said that both he and the person who visited him have had and cleared this virus, and if that is the case, no one was put at risk - but it was stupid. 

A similar thing happened to one of the Scottish administrations top advisers (travelling repeatedly to a second home) and she also resigned.

3 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

There is a worldwide shortage and no amount of made up facts can fix that.

/\ This

[treetree]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

As to the top adviser, he was simply 'stupid' in his behaviour.

I'd say it's more significant than that; this is the man whose doomsday scenario of 500,000 deaths (based on an as yet unreleased modelling) led to this lockdown, a lockdown which he himself obviously doesn't take seriously.

I know of elderly neighbours who are taking this seriously  'doing their bit', not seeing grandchildren, and it is breaking their hearts.

The lockdown has now taken on a life of it's own, politicians have to keep it going, regardless of the vast economic and human cost, because not to do so would suggest they were wrong in the first case.

[toontastic]

2 hours ago, Mice! said:

Highest reported number of deaths,  but for instance we have a larger population than Italy, what is the per 100,000 or however it is measured?

Plus we've started including care home deaths, some countries are still only counting hospital deaths.

Deaths per 100,000 we are still 4th.

[JohnfromUK]

9 minutes ago, treetree said:

led to this lockdown

To be fair - most countries have implemented lockdown of various severities.  He certainly advised it, but was very far from alone in that.

 

11 minutes ago, treetree said:

a lockdown which he himself obviously doesn't take seriously.

And that is unacceptable - which is why he resigned.

Although not 'locked down' totally, I have only been out (for essentials once a fortnight as local deliver to home are not available) and I'm taking every precaution I can think of when I do so, or isolated solitary walks straight from home.  I do help my neighbours (who are also locked down) for some items when I do go out - but we are very careful to totally maintain distance (e.g. place on shared drive and they collect when I have gone) and everything is washed down/isolated in quarantine.

18 minutes ago, treetree said:

The lockdown has now taken on a life of it's own, politicians have to keep it

Some of the rest of Europe are relaxing - it will be interesting to see what outcome that brings to infection rates.

 

[Walker570]

The whole situation has now gone bananas with this over educated idiot ignoring the advise and hundreds pouring in onto our beeches very week with help from our Border Force, fed watered and let free to go as they wish. A very small percentage indeed have been returned and hardly any will have been checked for the virus AND THEN the powers that be including the likes of the scientific guy have us locked down like prisoners with the threat of up to £1000 fine if we break the rules.  I see this scientific adviser has not been fined nor has his layby.

There will be a rebellion soon if the Government doesn't get it's act together.  Penalising law abiding citizens and then allowing all and sundry to come into the country, legal or illegal without quarantine is just stupid in the extreme.

[JohnfromUK]

It seems that having reported yesterday that there ware various different 'strains' circulating of different potencies - that is not now true https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8292289/Scientists-say-coronavirus-NOT-mutated-aggressive-despite-studies-showing-opposite.html

- or maybe it is?  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52557955

All goes to show that no one knows what is going on.

Edited May 6, 2020 by JohnfromUK

[Norfolk wildfowler]

10 hours ago, SpringDon said:

Am I to take from this that the eu produces all the ppe it needs and still has a surplus, even in the midst of a pandemic?

And they are not willing to sell this surplus to any country outside the eu?

That seems highly implausible. As does the idea that there would be no shortage had the uk joined the scheme. There is a worldwide shortage and no amount of made up facts can fix that.

I do not know exactly what the EU produces , but it includes most of the equipment we are very short of.

 

[Norfolk wildfowler]

11 hours ago, JDog said:

Norfolk wildflower (sic), give up whilst you are behind.

We would be better entertained by reading of some of your wildfowling adventures rather than your labour supporting, conservative hating, anti Brexit slant and rant on the current unpleasant covid 19 situation.

You have not a clue what the hell you are talking about. I come from a staunch Tory family and certainly do not hate them. What I hate is the fools who are the party now  putting their personal interest first and those who never listen to 2-3 or even more sides to an argument. Closed minds. Most Every days I trawl a dozen news sources to look at all sides of an argument. pity you do not do the same. And why the so called jibes calling me a wildflower ( sic ) . just shows how immature you are. Whats wrong with an anti Brexit slant , you have a right to your pro Brexit stance  in the same way i have to anti brexit or have you got such fascist ideas that every one must agree with you  or they are not worth listening to. More signs of immaturity. As for more comments about the present corvid 19 situation. You cannot be happy with our country having the highest mortality mortality in Europe due to the failure of our government. Time to grow up J dog.

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Norfolk wildfowler

[Norfolk wildfowler]

10 hours ago, SpringDon said:

Am I to take from this that the eu produces all the ppe it needs and still has a surplus, even in the midst of a pandemic?

And they are not willing to sell this surplus to any country outside the eu?

That seems highly implausible. As does the idea that there would be no shortage had the uk joined the scheme. There is a worldwide shortage and no amount of made up facts can fix that.

I think you have read the post wrong.  

 

20 hours ago, Walker570 said:

I object to being treated as a decrepid antique. I am more than capable of using my own common sense when I am out and about and don't even suggest to my wife that she should stay put like a prisoner, she is much fitter than I and walks 4 miles every day to collect the newspaper.  I believe the country should get back to normal as soon as possible and if people have not learned about the situation in the last 6 weeks then they must stand the consequences.  Nobody has to leave their homes if they don't want to and apparently the Fake News media say that 70% of people want to stay locked down. 

Is it not true then that the EU 'Scheme' collapsed

No its not true

 

11 hours ago, toontastic said:

Norfolk wildfowler, you go on and on about PPE and us not joining the EU scheme. You talk about us getting a share of excess PPE. But EU countries have none themselves We have German health care workers protesting about working with NO PPE and yet you seem to think they'll share what little they have with us. 

The EU had offered and the UK turned them dowm. Rea

d the above post on the time line.

[JDog]

Norfolk wildfowler

Reading through some of the posts in response to your offerings on this thread it would appear that you have long since lost the argument. Resorting to personal insults will not help your case.

[TRINITY]

8 hours ago, Walker570 said:

The whole situation has now gone bananas with this over educated idiot ignoring the advise and hundreds pouring in onto our beeches very week with help from our Border Force, fed watered and let free to go as they wish. A very small percentage indeed have been returned and hardly any will have been checked for the virus AND THEN the powers that be including the likes of the scientific guy have us locked down like prisoners with the threat of up to £1000 fine if we break the rules.  I see this scientific adviser has not been fined nor has his layby.

There will be a rebellion soon if the Government doesn't get it's act together.  Penalising law abiding citizens and then allowing all and sundry to come into the country, legal or illegal without quarantine is just stupid in the extreme.

Yes the French cant empty their camps of illegals on their coast quick enough and send them over to us mugs. Supplying a meet and great to that lot is a joke. 

[Jim Neal]

One of the few things I paid any attention to at school was English Literature.  One term, I think I must have been around 14 years old, we studied William Golding's novel "Lord of the Flies".

Golding certainly had a very good insight into human nature and how it shapes human behaviour in times of crisis.  I think we are all pre-programmed in a certain way but a lot of the time our social "norms" keep our primal tendencies in check.  I see a lot of parallels between Lord of the Flies and the way folk are interacting with each other on the tinterweb recently.

There's lots of people trying to smash Piggy's head in with a rock at the moment.....

I repeat myself for probably the third or fourth time in the last 6 weeks - when the dust has settled, some people are going to look back at their words and actions and feel shame.

[lancer425]

On 05/05/2020 at 22:54, Norfolk wildfowler said:

 

 

22 April 

Contrary to what Matt Hancock said the day before, EU officials tell The Independent: “They are not participating in any of the existing schemes but they have indicated that they would be open to participating in any future schemes.” In Brussels, a Commission spokesperson refers to the meetings the EU attended and says there was “ample opportunity” to join.

Have you any documentation from the EU backing up this statement you quote was in  the independent. please.

Edited May 6, 2020 by lancer425

[Tedward]

Deleted.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Tedward
In depth reading.

[hodge911]

So its now just been on gmb that the batch of ppe brought over from turkey is not fit for purpose .... complete joke ..... makes me think (I may be wrong) that it was a ploy to keep face and should a buyer not have been sent samples to ensure the suitably of the product for use . So the cost of sending the plane over to collect it was a complete waste of time / money 

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, hodge911 said:

complete joke

It's certainly no joke; it is a serious issue - and one that happened because the press and others continuously pressured the Health Procurement people to purchase all sorts of goods promised from unapproved suppliers of whom they had no knowledge or proven track record of tested products.  This Turkish manufacturer is reported to have only just switched into this type of PPE product from making shirts etc.

When the press and the whingers go on about how the procurement people are continuously offered PPE, gowns, masks, ventilators from all sorts of suppliers (apparently over 3000 suppliers offered goods and PPE) with whom they have no guarantee of satisfactory goods and many from operations that have never made these items before - these things will happen.  It is to avoid that sort of event that the procurement teams have processes in place that (usually) weed out most dodgy suppliers and goods before purchase - which is why procurement takes time.

Sadly - those continuously urging the government to buy from left right and centre from the many people offering supplies - have persuaded teh procurement people to try and take short cuts - which has inadvertantly led to this event.

perhaps those who complain that the procurement don't take up all these rushed offers will understand now that many will be unsuitable.

[oldypigeonpopper]

16 minutes ago, hodge911 said:

So its now just been on gmb that the batch of ppe brought over from turkey is not fit for purpose .... complete joke ..... makes me think (I may be wrong) that it was a ploy to keep face and should a buyer not have been sent samples to ensure the suitably of the product for use . So the cost of sending the plane over to collect it was a complete waste of time / money 

hello, just posted same on Dave Gs thread reference PPE, its an absolute farce !!!!!