Illegal immigration

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, toontastic said:

I don't agree with untold thousands coming here, but I'm more than happy for a fit for purpose immigration system with proper checks and vetting.

Two points to that (and I'm broadly agreeing);

1. I assume that the proposed 'points based' system would apply and regulate 'legal' immigration to suitable levels (which I would expect to be low - this country is overpopulated and has a serious housing shortage - the answer to which is NOT just to build more houses everywhere.  On top of that - there would be a (very small number) of people to whom 'asylum' is genuinely applicable.
2. The issue is the huge numbers of illegals - and they would still be illegals - because they don't meet the system requirements.  That is the real problem - how to stop them coming - and how to return those that slip through.

[oowee]

Immigration system 🤚

Asylum and refugee system ✋

[Mice!]

I imagine the views on this topic broadly represent the views of the British public, a small percentage say come on in we don't care who you are or where your from, while the majority don't want boat loads of single males arriving daily. 

The article posted by @Rewulf could well be one by the fella I watched a few years ago showing the migrants going from country to country,  walking and practically being shipped from border to border so to pass on the problem to someone else. 

I was amazed when Germany said they were opening their borders, I can't imagine it going well.

A proper system where immigrants with ID who can be vetted would be the only way I would allow any into this country,  we already apparently have thousands of people who need food banks to survive,  plenty of jobless of our own who are supported by the government ie those who work and pay taxes without letting more join the ever increasing que for handouts.

Things are getting tougher because of covid, the economy is in trouble so for a start the Navy or coastguard should either turn them back or pick them up in the channel and dump them back on the shores of France, trash the boats they were on and tell France to get its act together, I can't imagine it taking long for word to spread that the crossing was closed.

[Rewulf]

17 minutes ago, oowee said:

Immigration system 🤚

Asylum and refugee system ✋

Neither fit for purpose really.
It makes me wonder if the people who run this government/civil service understand the mentality of people.

If you sit on a park bench with a bag of bread, you will quickly become very popular with pigeons, squirrels...and rats eventually.
Eventually your bread will run out, you will return home get more bread, and become popular again...
The birds and squirrels will return in greater numbers until you can no longer afford to keep buying them bread.
Nothing wrong with feeding them of course , you can afford it for a while, and it gives you an 'enormous sense of well being' 

But the mistake you have made is 3 fold.
You cannot possibly provide equal shares to all, as some are more greedy/aggressive .
They will never thank you.
You cannot feed them forever.

 

 

[johnphilip]

1 hour ago, toontastic said:

I trust if Britain ever became a nightmare state where children were raped and murdered you would not even consider sending your young family members away to safety, as that would so obviously be the wrong thing to do. 

When I had lumps in my throat and on my thyroid I had my life saved by an immigrant (Iranian Muslim) to this country I don't know how he came to be in this country I'm just grateful he was. I trust in the same situation you would refuse his help. 

I am not ashamed of being a zionistic jew but I am ashamed of once viewing all Iranians as my enemy. 

If these unwanted keep coming here , that is the way this country will go. Regards your children,  they are your responsibility  to look after . Of these people crossing many countries to get here how many are young children  in danger  . Why would you send your child away to somewere you dont know they are going to end up . Why would you let your child be put in a small rubber  dinghy  to cross the chanel  . Is that been a responsible  parent.  I have nothing against  people who come here , that are needed to filll positions . In the likes of the NHS . Have been treat by many doctors and nurses from all over the world. 

[enfieldspares]

57 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

If you sit on a park bench with a bag of bread, you will quickly become very popular with pigeons, squirrels...and rats eventually.
Eventually your bread will run out, you will return home get more bread, and become popular again...
The birds and squirrels will return in greater numbers until you can no longer afford to keep buying them bread.
Nothing wrong with feeding them of course , you can afford it for a while, and it gives you an 'enormous sense of well being' 

But the mistake you have made is 3 fold.
You cannot possibly provide equal shares to all, as some are more greedy/aggressive .
They will never thank you.
You cannot feed them forever.

That's a fantastic homily. Might I please share it with others?

[Gordon R]

These people do not apply for permission to come to the UK, so any system of applying for it would be doomed to failure. They would apply, get turned down and then come here illegally. I have no problem with immigrants arriving - those who add something to the country - eg NHS. What I do object to is untold millions of criminals swamping the country.

To those who would let them in - where do you draw the line? I haven't see one poster - who would allow them in - put a limit on their numbers. If you would allow unlimited immigration - I'm sorry but I regards you as out with the washing. If you would limit the number - name one and have the courage of your convictions.

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

To those who would let them in - where do you draw the line?

I am not one who would let people in other then legally under a points based system or similar, - or (a very few) genuine people in need of asylum (e.g. translators who worked for the UK in Afghanistan and are now in danger because of that).

However - we need to consider the housing stock.  At present, the UK needs approx 340,000 additional houses a year.  My suggestion would be to limit legal immigration strictly to those needed for essential tasks (e.g. filling some NHS roles) - until the housing is back on track.  I am assuming the actual number would be maybe around low 10,000s, but that is a guess.

[Rewulf]

23 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

That's a fantastic homily. Might I please share it with others?

Feel free 

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

However - we need to consider the housing stock.  At present, the UK needs approx 340,000 additional houses a year.  My suggestion would be to limit legal immigration strictly to those needed for essential tasks (e.g. filling some NHS roles) - until the housing is back on track.  I am assuming the actual number would be maybe around low 10,000s, but that is a guess.

This Government will not allow housing needs to be met. 

16 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

 What I do object to is untold millions of criminals swamping the country.

Very emotive statement ! Who would want such a thing? 

To those who would let them in - where do you draw the line? I haven't see one poster - who would allow them in - put a limit on their numbers. If you would allow unlimited immigration - I'm sorry but I regards you as out with the washing. If you would limit the number - name one and have the courage of your convictions.

Who are 'Them'? 

Immigration is not the same as asylum seekers and refugee's

 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

This Government will not allow housing needs to be met.

IF true, we need to drastically reduce demand for housing.

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

IF true, we need to drastically reduce demand for housing.

No votes for child birth control. Why not just meet the housing need? 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Why not just meet the housing need?

It was you who said the present Govt. "will not allow".  Since the present Govt were quite recently elected with a decent majority ........ they are likely to be here for a bit.

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

No votes for child birth control

Actually (and I have not researched it) - I believe many sectors of the current UK population are declining in numbers.  I am fully in favour of reducing population (globally) by whatever reasonable means.

[oowee]

6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

It was you who said the present Govt. "will not allow".  Since the present Govt were quite recently elected with a decent majority ........ they are likely to be here for a bit.

 

Actually (and I have not researched it) - I believe many sectors of the current UK population are declining in numbers.  I am fully in favour of reducing population (globally) by whatever reasonable means.

Yep we have to accept people voted to be managed by an ineffective government.

Numbers are declining but household formations are rising. Even if you want to limit them and force people to stay with others I don't imagine such a proposal as a vote winner. Either way an ineffective gov't is not about to change anything.

[Scully]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

How big did you say your house was Grant ? 

😂

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

Numbers are declining but household formations are rising.

Indeed, and I am myself such an example as I live alone (in what most people would think of as a large house), but that is my choice.  Personally, I do not like to see more and more countryside built over - and locally - we have massive problems as past building has been on flood plain - and (something that has the council completely baffled) it floods!  They are mindful to authorise another 30,000 houses (over the next 10 years) which are again planned on areas which flood and very probably will be uninsurable ..........

The solution to the 'housing problem' will remain illusive (or at least politically illusive), but being strict on legal immigration and very tough on illegal immigration is a sensible and visible way of easing the pressure on housing - and politically I think a vote winner.

[oowee]

19 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The solution to the 'housing problem' will remain illusive (or at least politically illusive), but being strict on legal immigration and very tough on illegal immigration is a sensible and visible way of easing the pressure on housing - and politically I think a vote winner.

National ID cards would be a great start for managing illegals but has proved unpopular with Government. 

A properly thought out plan for dealing with asylum seekers and refugees (safe passage, adequate service support safe haven's) so that they can be separated from illegals with would be another but again politically illusive to a Gov't wedded to reducing UK status on the world stage and sound bite politics of the short term. Given the inability of dealing with the simpler matter of immigration it's hard to feel any confidence that our team are upto the task.

Unfortunately whilst we have Kipper and the US has Trump we are unlikely to get anywhere with anything. Apparently given the recent reports on Covid handling what we need is a woman in charge  .

Edited August 21, 2020 by oowee

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Apparently given the recent reports on Covid handling what we need is a woman in charge

As long as it's a reincarnation of the late Mrs T - I'm OK with that.

[discobob]

6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

As long as it's a reincarnation of the late Mrs T - I'm OK with that.

That will not be popular with some people but that idea has my support - I would say our last true politician/Prime Minister - she made mistakes but she owned them

 

[Newbie to this]

21 hours ago, stumfelter said:

😂😂😂😂😂😂 Thanks for posting, that must qualify as the funniest thing I've ever read on pigeon watch.

Are you sure...........

20 hours ago, oowee said:

We should simply set up a border facility in France and provide proper transport to the UK for those that are in France wanting to come to the UK and meet an agreed quota. They should be provided with a supporting integration and resettlement package.

Whilst at the same time leading a European effort to resolve the crisis and build a properly structured safe haven option.

 

[Rewulf]

20 hours ago, oowee said:

We should simply set up a border facility in France and provide proper transport to the UK for those that are in France wanting to come to the UK and meet an agreed quota. They should be provided with a supporting integration and resettlement package.

Thats nice !
So if I WANT to go and live in Canada, I should just get myself to a 'border facility' and wait for my transport over to my new life, complete with 'supporting' integration and resettlement package ?
Ill take a 4 bedroom house in Alberta , preferably in a national park, I might even get a job eventually.

Except, I cant do that can I ?
It doesnt matter if Im being persecuted either, or live in a cardboard box in a shop doorway.
What if I rocked up destitute at Calais, and asked for political asylum, get the French to look after me , oh and youll have to take my kids too Ive left back in Blighty.?
Not happening is it ?
As many have asked , what is that QUOTA , and what are the limits to legal and illegal immigration ?

Its all very well getting teary eyed and saying 'save these poor people' 
But when it actually comes down to sacrificing something yourself , instead of blaming 'the tories' everyone slinks back into the shadows.
Id have a lot more respect if some of them started offering rooms in their houses , or taking on some of their benefit payments.

Bleeding heart liberals never seem to do a great deal of bleeding IMHO 
 

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Thats nice !
So if I WANT to go and live in Canada, I should just get myself to a 'border facility' and wait for my transport over to my new life, complete with 'supporting' integration and resettlement package ?
Ill take a 4 bedroom house in Alberta , preferably in a national park, I might even get a job eventually.

Except, I cant do that can I ?
It doesnt matter if Im being persecuted either, or live in a cardboard box in a shop doorway.
What if I rocked up destitute at Calais, and asked for political asylum, get the French to look after me , oh and youll have to take my kids too Ive left back in Blighty.?
Not happening is it ?
As many have asked , what is that QUOTA , and what are the limits to legal and illegal immigration ?

Its all very well getting teary eyed and saying 'save these poor people' 
But when it actually comes down to sacrificing something yourself , instead of blaming 'the tories' everyone slinks back into the shadows.
Id have a lot more respect if some of them started offering rooms in their houses , or taking on some of their benefit payments.

Bleeding heart liberals never seem to do a great deal of bleeding IMHO 
 

What are you on about? 

What has immigration to Canada to do with asylum seekers and refugee's to the UK? Why should we put up with any illegal migrants? 

Why would you rock up in France to ask for political asylum?

What is what quota? Are you talking immigration or asylum seekers and refugees?

No good bleating that you don't like the problem if you are not prepared to work towards a solution. 

[Rewulf]

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

No good bleating that you don't like the problem if you are not prepared to work towards a solution. 

Your solution is let them ALL in.
Amidst blaming it all on 'the tories' 

I seem to remember the government you were so proud to work with were very good at just opening the doors.
More migrants , more labour votes ?
Now look at the state of the place 

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

"What I do object to is untold millions of criminals swamping the country."

Very emotive statement ! Who would want such a thing? 

 

I am unclear as to why you regard it as emotive. Illegals are criminals - full stop. Five million illegals is more than enough. How many million are you prepared for?

[stumfelter]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Are you sure...........

 

As hilarious as oowee's post is I still think Henry D's just tops it, but only just....