Bolier error code = leak?

[Shearwater]

Hi all, my combi boiler has produced the error code E1 twice in the last 10 days ( normally once or twice a year ) which tells me to add a touch of water to the system while keeping the bar pressure in the green.

Does this mean with the latest error frequency that a tiny weep has got bigger and time to call a plumber?

Is there anything else I could do before a spend the £50 to call him out?

Thanks in advance

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Can you see any evidence of a leak?

Wet ceilings, walls or bubbles in gloss paint on woodwork below the boiler?

 

[vmaxphil]

Check the pressure relief valve outlet outside and see if it's wet first otherwise it's check as above 

[discobob]

2 minutes ago, vmaxphil said:

Check the pressure relief valve outlet outside and see if it's wet first otherwise it's check as above 

This - however it should be discharging into a drain - or ours is into a gravel bed so may be hard to tell - put a jug or bowl or something to see if it is discharging or dripping through. If it is it will by your bar valve needs changing and possibly your inlet feed.

It may also be being caused by your expansion vessels in the boiler. A way to check is to turn on your CH and see if the pressure goes up and up which causes the bar valve to release the water once a certain level is reached. If this is OK repeat running hot water.

The expansion vessels can loose their pressure over time and need topping up with a foot pump (use something with a pressure display) - the info should be in the maintenance instructions for your boiler for each of the vessels. When topping up the air pressure if you find that water comes out the schrader (?) valve (same as on a car tire) it may be that the membrane has gone in the vessel.

I hope this helps 

[walshie]

Things I'd check in order of easiest.

Pressure relief valve.

Expansion vessel pressure. It might just need topping up with air, or the diaphragm might be leaking.

Leaks. 

[discobob]

1 hour ago, discobob said:

 If it is it will by your bar valve needs changing and possibly your inlet feed pressure and isolation valves may need to be looked at if you leave your filling loop connected, or it may be your actual pressure on the cold water supply - some boilers don't like too high a pressure.

Corrected my comment..

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, walshie said:

Things I'd check in order of easiest.

Pressure relief valve.

Expansion vessel pressure. It might just need topping up with air, or the diaphragm might be leaking.

Leaks. 

When mine was loosing pressure it was the expansion vessel needing topping up like walshie has advised.

Edited October 13, 2020 by blackbird

[Demonic69]

23 minutes ago, blackbird said:

When mine was loosing pressure it was the expansion vessel needing topping up like walshie has advised.

Same here. I was advised to replace the PRV and Expansion Vessel. The PRV was a pain to get to and the supplied EV didn't fit. Thought I'd chance it by topping up and it's been fine for over a year now.

[figgy]

You can fit external exp vessels if you have the space.

I would top up the pressure and be monitoring everyday to see what's happening.  A little too up now and then wouldn't bother me if no signs of a leak.

[countryman]

Had pressure drop on mine, turned out it was a pipe in the boiler that only leaked  When you ran the hot water, just a washer to fix and re tighten. 

[Jaymo]

Could be a heat exchanger ( had two go on my old vokera, renown for it)

But at the end of the day, it’s a boiler- don’t go messing about, get someone in.

Its your home and family that could pay the price if not......

 

[Shearwater]

Sorry for the tardy reply to all your comments but had a busy week beating and it nearly all went to plan A,B or C so everyone happy happy apart from a few birds.

Anyhow

• Pressure dips about 0.2 of a bar soon as boiler starts when I turn on the CH then goes up from 1.3 or 1.4bar ( top end on the green markers) to 2.2 or 2.3bar ( beginning on the red markers ) and a drip appears from the pipe outside
• Pressure went down from 2bar ( middle of green) to about 1.4 when I turn on HW and stayed there; no drip appears outside

I would guess it's plumber time?

Thanks again lads

[oldypigeonpopper]

5 minutes ago, Shearwater said:

Sorry for the tardy reply to all your comments but had a busy week beating and it nearly all went to plan A,B or C so everyone happy happy apart from a few birds.

Anyhow

• Pressure dips about 0.2 of a bar soon as boiler starts when I turn on the CH then goes up from 1.3 or 1.4bar ( top end on the green markers) to 2.2 or 2.3bar ( beginning on the red markers ) and a drip appears from the pipe outside
• Pressure went down from 2bar ( middle of green) to about 1.4 when I turn on HW and stayed there; no drip appears outside

I would guess it's plumber time?

Thanks again lads

Hello, what boiler do you have, ? Forget the plumber and get a gas boiler engineer

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Good luck Shearwater, let us know what the outcome is.

 

And NEVER forget the PLUMBER!

[discobob]

Do the pressure on the expansion valve first. It will say in your manual - or on a label on the vessel itself what pressure it should be - I use a stirrup type pump with a pressure gauge on it to do it - takes a few minutes (on ours I have to undo a few screws and remove a brace to access one of the valves). Just check that if you depress the valve no water squirts out (new vessel required if it does - get an engineer - expect £150-200 depending on price of the new vessel). If that goes OK repeat your test and see if your your pressure has stabilized - it will go up a couple of notches but shouldn't go up towards the red.

If you have a drip from the overflow at that point then you need the bar valve replacing - this should be no more than £70 - £80 as the valves are not expensive

https://www.google.com/search?safe=strict&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB866GB866&sxsrf=ALeKk01dTE7ZKXW5ANMAfJD5BEK580_1nQ%3A1602834644779&ei=1FCJX9iPL8HexgPhpY-QCg&q=6+bar+valve&oq=6+bar+valve&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIECAAQHjIGCAAQBRAeMgYIABAFEB4yBggAEAgQHjIGCAAQCBAeMgYIABAIEB4yBggAEAgQHjIGCAAQCBAeMgYIABAIEB4yBggAEAgQHjoECAAQRzoGCAAQBxAeOggIABAIEAcQHlC6YFjxbWDAcmgAcAN4AIABZIgBwQGSAQMxLjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6yAEIwAEB&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjYyYqt0LjsAhVBr3EKHeHSA6IQ4dUDCA0&uact=5

Here are some videos on doing the pressure 

https://www.google.com/search?q=pressurise+expansion+vessel&safe=strict&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB866GB866&sxsrf=ALeKk02vRYZ84Qgoozi1BfYq6oiFZA717A:1602834731546&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiXtbrW0LjsAhXtTRUIHXF0AnsQ_AUoBHoECBcQBg&biw=2560&bih=1329

 

[Shearwater]

5 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, what boiler do you have, ? Forget the plumber and get a gas boiler engineer

Main combi 25 eco elite is my boiler

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, Shearwater said:

Main combi 25 eco elite is my boiler

Ok, have a Google on this boiler faults you might find helpful, my sons is loosing pressure, again🙄

[johnsyboy1974]

Expansion vessel is flat I would imagine, as the water heats up it expands and the vessel is designed to take up the expansion. If you are to do this yourself this would need no water in the boiler to fill it with air correctly, best to drain boiler and leave the drain cock open whilst you pump air into it, normally 1, 1-1/2bar of pressure, if your unsure get a gas safe registered engineer and he/she will sort it quite easily. 
Hope it all works out for you

[Shearwater]

On 16/10/2020 at 08:41, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Good luck Shearwater, let us know what the outcome is.

 

And NEVER forget the PLUMBER!

Phoned plumber, gave him the facts and said it needs 2 new parts, the prv and something else I can't remember but said easy fix and done in half hour, so parts should be here by Tuesday. Thanks everyone and again PW rules

[B725]

How does he know it needs two new parts without seeing it,does he have a crystal ball?. It may be as simple as re pressureising the expansion vessel.

[Demonic69]

50 minutes ago, B725 said:

How does he know it needs two new parts without seeing it,does he have a crystal ball?. It may be as simple as re pressureising the expansion vessel.

That's exactly what I was told I needed for mine. A quick top up of the expansion vessel and it's sorted

[Lord O War]

On 16/10/2020 at 15:59, johnsyboy1974 said:

Expansion vessel is flat I would imagine, as the water heats up it expands and the vessel is designed to take up the expansion. If you are to do this yourself this would need no water in the boiler to fill it with air correctly, best to drain boiler and leave the drain cock open whilst you pump air into it, normally 1, 1-1/2bar of pressure, if your unsure get a gas safe registered engineer and he/she will sort it quite easily. 
Hope it all works out for you

What he said. If you try to pressurise with water in the boiler you will end up with the wrong pressure in the EV. I have to do our boiler after the summer as it has usually dropped very low over the summer. Its a right faff on our boiler as the boiler is on a bracket so all the pipes could be run up he back, visable pipes nooooooo! But it makes it a bit tricky to get to the schrader valve.

[figgy]

You will know if your expansion vessel bladder is losing air, by either as you keep topping up the water to maintain pressure, when the water gets hot the pressure will rise a fair bit more as it's not got the same air volume to expand into.  Or by letting off all warer pressure and testing the air pressure if the vessel. If at any point mine goes I'll fit a external one.

[Shearwater]

OK lads, final page of the story.

Went out beating yesterday and left wife in charge with the plumber ( I knew the risks) anyhow, £180 for parts and labour, she said he replaced a big washer/nut thing and fitted a new tall cylinder tank about the length of the boiler.

While I now it's not a perfect ending but this is what we face in life sometimes lads

[TIGHTCHOKE]

And your winter will be considerably warmer!