303 OIL

[Fenlandbob]

Evening, all.

Sorry if I'm going over old ground, but the more I read, I realise the less I know. My basic question is what oil was used in the Lee Enfield oil bottle? There are articles by ex armourers that say Youngs 303 was designed specifically for the job. I have seen videos where the contents of the oiler are dissolved in water and funnelled down the bore for cleaning purposes, and also seen videos where the dropper has been used to oil the bolt. So is Youngs a cleaner and an oil, or was something else used. Many thanks for any information on this. 

Regards, Rob. 

[wisdom]

You used to mix it with water and I think(it was a long time ago)it made aquaoil which was a bore solvent.

[Fenlandbob]

Hello, mate. 

Did the undiluted 'oil' have any lubrication qualities? 

Regards, Rob. 

[Gunman]

Its not oil . Its for cleaning powder residue from barrels .It will give some protection against rust if the bore is coated with it BUT must be cleaned out before use . 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

"Does what it says on the tin"

[miki]

Still do, I add mine to boiling water around 50:50 and swab the barrels of my shotguns. It is also good for cleaning the HMR crud off the moderators insides. Thats what old toothbrushes are for 

 

[eddoakley]

Ah, Young's 303 before they took away the smell. Nothing smells quite like it.

Always reminds me of my grandfather when I find a proper tin or a gun that still smells of it.

 

Edd

[miki]

Yes its wonderful. I bought a new tin last year and am so dissapointed.

[Gas seal]

Hi I remember the smell of the oil. The cardboard box for the cleaning kit always smelt of it . I’m sure it looks like milk when mixed with water. My dad used it for cleaning his pistols. 

 

[Vince Green]

Its an obsolete practice now to mix it with water to wash out the bore, that goes back to the days of corrosive primers. But yes, the smell was that of my childhood.

[DUNKS]

Lots of chatter but WHY has no one offered to answer your original question?

I will. It was lubricating oil not 303 oil but a thin oil.

[JohnfromUK]

8 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

Lots of chatter but WHY has no one offered to answer your original question?

I will. It was lubricating oil not 303 oil but a thin oil.

I believe it may have been (or very similar to) Parker Hale "Express" oil.  It is still available - though I doubt what you buy now would be the same as years ago.

I am told that the change in smell is due to there no longer being phenol in the make up (has now been added to the 'hazardous' list)

[Gas seal]

Sorry I was just describing that it looked like milk if that was any help.

[Fenlandbob]

2 hours ago, DUNKS said:

Lots of chatter but WHY has no one offered to answer your original question?

I will. It was lubricating oil not 303 oil but a thin oil.

Cheers, DUNKS. 

I asked the original question because there is an article that says 303 'oil' was designed specifically for the Lee Enfield, but modern firearms require a thinner oil. I found that to be slightly misleading. 

Regards, Rob. 

[Fenlandbob]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I believe it may have been (or very similar to) Parker Hale "Express" oil.  It is still available - though I doubt what you buy now would be the same as years ago.

I am told that the change in smell is due to there no longer being phenol in the make up (has now been added to the 'hazardous' list)

I did wonder about this. I've no experience of this oil yet, but any of the original brass oilers I have certainly have a distinctive smell. My RFD reckons it smells just like his army cadet days! 

Regards, Rob. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, back many moons ago it was our go to barrel cleaner but now I find Napier bore solvent far better

[enfieldspares]

I am going to stick my neck out here. It's actually an inferior product for doing what it does. It doesn't lubricate (a friend had a friend that thought it did...he soon was disavowed of that when his barrel loop went "bad") and it doesn't do anything that plain boiling water won't do in terms of saturating the residues left by corrosive primers. Indeed plain boiling water is better as the heat opens the pores of the metal and then dries bone dry very quickly. 

The competing product was Edna Parker's "A C Oil" which was a much superior all around product. A C standing for "anti corrosive" as (from memory) A C Oil also dissolved it was claimed copper residue. And whilst nostalgia isn't what it used to be when I had the choice I always bought A C Oil of which I am sadly now down to maybe a half pint. Young's may be better known of these "potions" but it was alway the inferior product of the two.

Edited February 25, 2021 by enfieldspares

[DUNKS]

I would agree. You also dont want to leave a product which is hygroscopic on your gun. In the 1950s RN shooting team our cleaning routine was a lot of boiling water poured into the breech end of the barrel via a cranked funnel  after removing the bolt, then several dry 4X2 patches through on the standard pull through followed by a patch wet with oil which was not Youngs 303. Couple of dry ones through again before shooting next day.

[London Best]

I cannot comment on the efficacy of A C oil as a cleaner as I have never actually heard of it before, but the original Young’s .303 was an excellent rust preventer. After wiping over with a soaked patch the gun would be protected for decades as the product went gummy and eventually over years set almost like varnish. It was never intended as a lubricant.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, London Best said:

I cannot comment on the efficacy of A C oil as a cleaner as I have never actually heard of it before, but the original Young’s .303 was an excellent rust preventer. After wiping over with a soaked patch the gun would be protected for decades as the product went gummy and eventually over years set almost like varnish. It was never intended as a lubricant.

I have never heard of AC either.  Young's I have always used neat as a barrel cleaner (shotguns).  I'm not too fussy about oil and have used Express, 3 in 1, and clean motor oil or ATF.  Compared to the workings of an engine or gearbox, oil in a gun gets very gentle treatment).

I am not a fan of WD40 - which is OK for water removal (what it was designed for), but not for an oil.

[London Best]

Just now, JohnfromUK said:

I have never heard of AC either.  Young's I have always used neat as a barrel cleaner (shotguns).  I'm not too fussy about oil and have used Express, 3 in 1, and clean motor oil or ATF.  Compared to the workings of an engine or gearbox, oil in a gun gets very gentle treatment).

I am not a fan of WD40 - which is OK for water removal (what it was designed for), but not for an oil.

Totally agree. 
3 in 1 or any light machine oil takes some beating as a lubricant.

[Fenlandbob]

I've always used a good quality 15/40 engine oil. I buy it in 45 gallon drums for work. Never ending supply of the stuff! I read about different spec gun oils with suspicion. I thought all detergent oils by design contained corrosion inhibitors? Could be wrong. It has happened once before....., 

[London Best]

14 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

 

The competing product was Edna Parker's "A C Oil" which was a much superior all around product. A C standing for "anti corrosive" as (from memory) A C Oil also dissolved it was claimed copper residue. And whilst nostalgia isn't what it used to be when I had the choice I always bought A C Oil of which I am sadly now down to maybe a half pint. Young's may be better known of these "potions" but it was alway the inferior product of the two.

I have just checked in my (much thumbed) Parker Hale catalogue from 1958 and there is no mention of A C oil but Young’s .303 is heavily promoted. Does this mean that the A C oil was discontinued by that date? Does anyone know when it was available? 

[Walker570]

14 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

I am going to stick my neck out here. It's actually an inferior product for doing what it does. It doesn't lubricate (a friend had a friend that thought it did...he soon was disavowed of that when his barrel loop went "bad") and it doesn't do anything that plain boiling water won't do in terms of saturating the residues left by corrosive primers. Indeed plain boiling water is better as the heat opens the pores of the metal and then dries bone dry very quickly. 

The competing product was Edna Parker's "A C Oil" which was a much superior all around product. A C standing for "anti corrosive" as (from memory) A C Oil also dissolved it was claimed copper residue. And whilst nostalgia isn't what it used to be when I had the choice I always bought A C Oil of which I am sadly now down to maybe a half pint. Young's may be better known of these "potions" but it was alway the inferior product of the two.

and... Edna was rarely wrong.

[JohnfromUK]

12 minutes ago, London Best said:

I have just checked in my (much thumbed) Parker Hale catalogue from 1958 and there is no mention of A C oil but Young’s .303 is heavily promoted. Does this mean that the A C oil was discontinued by that date? Does anyone know when it was available?

After a little 'Google' research - A C Oil was a product of A.J. Parker who apparently had only distant (pre 1928) connection with Parker Hale (despite 'Parker' being a name in common).

A.J. Parker seem to have been little known and have been gone for some time.

This is what I found (in relation to a stamped mark on an early oiler);

"This is the stamp of Alfred G. Parker, son of Alfred Gray Parker and father of Alfred J. Parker and was used from 1913 until 1930 when the company name changed to Parker Hale, recognising the influence of the Hale family in the company. A.T.C. Hale being a nephew of A.G. Parker and they gradually took over the running of the business.
It was a falling out over this  that saw A.J. Parker break away and form his own business in 1928."